[neobop]

I didn't experiment directly between the Rega and VPI, but sitting on top of a Salamander Synergy rack on a suspended wood floor, the Classic was happier. When I had the Rega in my old place on a Solid Steel Target rack placed on a concrete floor, I was happy to not tweak the table.  My system is in the living room so i want to keep it looking acceptable. I think the Salamander rack is still giving me some isolation problems, but upgrading it to some thing better that's still aesthetically pleasing will be expensive. I've changed the rack feet out for Herbie's grungebuster sliders as well as tenderfeet and iso-cups under most components.

Nice looking room.

Know how you feel, sometimes you just want to play a record.  It might be of little consolation right now when you can't, but if you had the Classic side by side with the Rega on that steel rack/concrete floor, the Classic would sound even better.  The difference would be greater.  Considering that your talking about a Classic with a defective arm pivot and a presumably properly functioning P25, the future looks bright indeed.

Wood floors are a problem.  The easiest way to deal with them is a wall shelf bolted into the studs.  There are some nice looking shelves, but that might not be an option.  There are a couple of extensive past threads here that might help you deal with the problem.  They seem to involve a rigid support with some mass coupling/decoupling schemes.

There's a reason the Classic sales took off like they did - for $3K it doesn't have much competition.  I don't own one but a friendly dealer sells them and IMO it's silly good.  I was a little shocked about your problem, but I don't think this is common on the Classic.  There's no excuse for VPI QC, but once it's back together and said and done, I bet you'll appreciate your great record player.
neo

[robbiesurp]

I got the unipivot spike back from VPI. They were cool enough to replace it for free. Here are the pics for comparison. I'll report back when I get some time to listen.
 
New:


Damaged:

[Wayner]

It looks like they took a grinder to it. I thought they were going to replace it?

Wayner

[robbiesurp]

It looks like they took a grinder to it. I thought they were going to replace it?

Wayner

Yeah you're right! I was told it couldn't be repaired and had to be replaced. I'll contact VPI and see what's up...

[Gzerro]

Good to hear you got it back, but it does look like they just ground it down.

Did it solve your sibilance issue? How does it sound?

[robbiesurp]

Good to hear you got it back, but it does look like they just ground it down.

Did it solve your sibilance issue? How does it sound?

I've finally had some time to listen.

The pivot was ground down by VPI. They first told me that it was was impossible to repair and then said they were able to repair it. I have been assured that the repaired pivot is fine and the replacement spike ($100) will not yield any sonic improvements. I do kind of wish they would have consulted me when they had the spike as I may have opted for the replacement just for peace of mind. VPI only charged me shipping to repair the spike.

As far as the sound now, this sounds like different turntable. I could try to list out all of the audiophile jargon, but across the board every aspect is improved. I still have no clue how/when the pivot was damaged but I suspect now it may have been damaged from the start. I have been fighting with setting this table up for 3-4 years. I have the arm set exactly (Overhang, VTA,VTF) like it was before the repair. I did slightly shift the azimuth to the left as it was off by about 4 tics on the Fozgometer. I think this accounts for the bent pivot skewing the arm to one side.

The right channel sibilance problem still pops up, but with much less frequency. So far I would say that it's dropped by about 70%. So it's definitely a step in the right direction. Once I get a better handle on the improved sonics of the table, I will recheck the arm settings and see if i can dial out the sibilance problem.

I'm sure that the damaged pivot was contributing to the right channel sibilance. It hasn't completely disappeared, but I think I'm on the right track. I still can't believe how much better this table sounds now...

[Gzerro]

I've finally had some time to listen.

The pivot was ground down by VPI. They first told me that it was was impossible to repair and then said they were able to repair it. I have been assured that the repaired pivot is fine and the replacement spike ($100) will not yield any sonic improvements. I do kind of wish they would have consulted me when they had the spike as I may have opted for the replacement just for peace of mind. VPI only charged me shipping to repair the spike.

As far as the sound now, this sounds like different turntable. I could try to list out all of the audiophile jargon, but across the board every aspect is improved. I still have no clue how/when the pivot was damaged but I suspect now it may have been damaged from the start. I have been fighting with setting this table up for 3-4 years. I have the arm set exactly (Overhang, VTA,VTF) like it was before the repair. I did slightly shift the azimuth to the left as it was off by about 4 tics on the Fozgometer. I think this accounts for the bent pivot skewing the arm to one side.

The right channel sibilance problem still pops up, but with much less frequency. So far I would say that it's dropped by about 70%. So it's definitely a step in the right direction. Once I get a better handle on the improved sonics of the table, I will recheck the arm settings and see if i can dial out the sibilance problem.

I'm sure that the damaged pivot was contributing to the right channel sibilance. It hasn't completely disappeared, but I think I'm on the right track. I still can't believe how much better this table sounds now...

Great news! I am glad your table is sounding much better. Amazing the difference such a small defect can make.

[Gzerro]

I am digging up this older thread to add the resolution in case anyone finds it in the future.

Since last posting I fiddled with several things such as damping the tonearm with dots and plasticlay as Neo had recommended, different platform materials, etc. Nothing really made a difference on the mistracking issue (some sound differences yes, but the mistracking was still happening). I was in the process of investigating options to replace my VPI Scout as I was convinced the JMW-9 arm was at fault.

Earlier this week, I was able to try a Dynavector 20X2L cartridge on my table. After trying so many things to solve this issue I was skeptical it would make any difference. Both my Grado Sonata and Soundsmith Zephyr had similar mistracking issues (less severe with the Sonota) so I had thought it was not an issue with the cartridge.

After going through my routine setup process, I put on several of the records that had the worst sibilance distortion and mistracking issues with the Zephyr. The Dynavector tracked everything perfectly! No sibilance distortion, less inner groove distortion, no audible mistracking at all!

Needless to say I purchased the Dynavector and plan to keep the VPI Scout.

I am not sure what conclusion to draw. I think my example of the Zephyr may not be quite right - the stylus is a bit crooked relative to the cartridge body, although the folks at Music Direct said it was within "normal" range based on photo's I had sent. It also needs a healthy tilt to get the azimuth correct (both per a fozgometer and using the mirror method). I plan to send it to Soundsmith to have them take a look at it and see what they have to say.

Thanks all for your input along the way.

Tom

[neobop]

I am not sure what conclusion to draw. I think my example of the Zephyr may not be quite right - the stylus is a bit crooked relative to the cartridge body, although the folks at Music Direct said it was within "normal" range based on photo's I had sent. It also needs a healthy tilt to get the azimuth correct (both per a fozgometer and using the mirror method). I plan to send it to Soundsmith to have them take a look at it and see what they have to say.

Thanks all for your input along the way.

Tom

Tom,
Glad you got things sorted out. 

With regards to the Zephyr, the cantilever is a little skewed or crooked, and azimuth is considerably off.  This is a defective stylus.  Chances are the cantilever is twisted.  Music Direct should at the least, supply you with a new stylus.  This is an expensive cart and would make a nice back-up or you could sell it with a new stylus.
neo

[Gzerro]

Tom,
Glad you got things sorted out. 

With regards to the Zephyr, the cantilever is a little skewed or crooked, and azimuth is considerably off.  This is a defective stylus.  Chances are the cantilever is twisted.  Music Direct should at the least, supply you with a new stylus.  This is an expensive cart and would make a nice back-up or you could sell it with a new stylus.
neo

I definately plan to get the Zephyr checked out and corrected. I think I will have better luck just sending it straight to Soundsmith at this point. The stylus isn't user replaceable. It is still under warranty, and they have a great reputation so I expect it will not be a problem.

I really like the sound of the Zephyr other than the mistracking issues, so I am hoping the repaired/replaced cart not have the tracking issues. It has a different character than the Dyna, so having both would be nice. I have a spare armwand so swapping back and forth is pretty easy.

[robbiesurp]

Tom, Great to hear you figured this out! Finally a thread with some resolution!

I have good news as well. After VPI ground down my original bent spike:

Original Bent Spike


Ground Down Spike




Then, a few weeks ago, I got an email out of the blue from HW saying that he wanted to replace the spike and not leave me with a repaired one:


New Spike (Does this look like a different material than the first spike?)




When I received the new post back from VPI I noticed that the VTA adjustment ring is also different and fits much smoother. The original ring always had a little play in it. With the new spike, all I had to do was level the tonearm, quickly recheck my overhang, VTA and azimuth and the sound is Unbelievable! I cannot believe how much this small defect was affecting the tonearm.

Over the past three years, I've tried 4 cartridges and every set up combination I could think of and found it impossible to dial this table in. I feel like I can finally hear what this table can do. Hopefully I didn't waste too many hours on my Benz Ref S trying to get it set up...

Big Thanks to VPI customer service and every one who has chimed in on this board.

[neobop]

New Spike (Does this look like a different material than the first spike?)

Hard to tell if the material is entirely different, although it has a different finish.  The tip now looks annealed - hardened. 

Glad to see everybody's VPI is working out.
neo

[Sonny]

I am digging up this older thread to add the resolution in case anyone finds it in the future.

Since last posting I fiddled with several things such as damping the tonearm with dots and plasticlay as Neo had recommended, different platform materials, etc. Nothing really made a difference on the mistracking issue (some sound differences yes, but the mistracking was still happening). I was in the process of investigating options to replace my VPI Scout as I was convinced the JMW-9 arm was at fault.

Earlier this week, I was able to try a Dynavector 20X2L cartridge on my table. After trying so many things to solve this issue I was skeptical it would make any difference. Both my Grado Sonata and Soundsmith Zephyr had similar mistracking issues (less severe with the Sonota) so I had thought it was not an issue with the cartridge.

After going through my routine setup process, I put on several of the records that had the worst sibilance distortion and mistracking issues with the Zephyr. The Dynavector tracked everything perfectly! No sibilance distortion, less inner groove distortion, no audible mistracking at all!

Needless to say I purchased the Dynavector and plan to keep the VPI Scout.

I am not sure what conclusion to draw. I think my example of the Zephyr may not be quite right - the stylus is a bit crooked relative to the cartridge body, although the folks at Music Direct said it was within "normal" range based on photo's I had sent. It also needs a healthy tilt to get the azimuth correct (both per a fozgometer and using the mirror method). I plan to send it to Soundsmith to have them take a look at it and see what they have to say.

Thanks all for your input along the way.

Tom

Tom, so how do you like the sound of the 20XL2?

[Gzerro]

I have good news as well. After VPI ground down my original bent spike:

Then, a few weeks ago, I got an email out of the blue from HW saying that he wanted to replace the spike and not leave me with a repaired one:

When I received the new post back from VPI I noticed that the VTA adjustment ring is also different and fits much smoother. The original ring always had a little play in it. With the new spike, all I had to do was level the tonearm, quickly recheck my overhang, VTA and azimuth and the sound is Unbelievable! I cannot believe how much this small defect was affecting the tonearm.

Over the past three years, I've tried 4 cartridges and every set up combination I could think of and found it impossible to dial this table in. I feel like I can finally hear what this table can do. Hopefully I didn't waste too many hours on my Benz Ref S trying to get it set up...

Big Thanks to VPI customer service and every one who has chimed in on this board.

Congrats! Thank you for following up. Sounds like VPI got this one right in the end.

[Gzerro]

Tom, so how do you like the sound of the 20XL2?

As a follow up, I sent the Zephyr back to Soundsmith and they received it Friday afternoon. Tuesday morning I got an e-mail from Peter saying that he had repaired the cartridge at no charge. He described the repair as "I  have reset the internal suspension; reset stylus rake
angle and azimuth; full test disk testing and listening tests performed." Great service considering they are backed up on retipping 10-12 weeks!

I like the Dynavector 20X2L cartridge alot. It is a bit different than the Zephyr which is the only reference I have spent time with in my current setup, so I am a bit hesitant to say much until I can compare side by side with the repaired Zephyr.

My initial impression is that the Zephyr dug a bit deeper and had more dynamics and slam, with a bit of a forward presentation. The Dyna is more balanced overall with more fine details, but less dynamic.