[DaveyW]

Hi all,

Just returned from a vacation and thought time for a change of cart on the Sondek.
A Shure V15 II had previously replaced the Boboli, but I wanted something a little more - exciting.

Had a rummage through the cart box and decided to give my home potted Grado Z+ with nice nude MCZ stylus another outing.


Well - just had to pop in a quick post to say that this combo really is a little cracker.
 








Even after a lengthy exposure to the Denon DL-S1 and more recently a Bluenote Boboli this does not let itself down.

It needs a lowish resistive load (on my system 8-10k ohms).
Here it dishes up a full, yet tight bottom end, rich fullsome mids and a pin sharp top end with a crisp, lithe and dynamic overall presentation.
I'm going to be leaving this on for a bit.

I believe the MCZ stylus is still avaible from Grado at $150 - it's a great upgrade to the stock bonded Prestige offerings.

[Mitsuman]

Come on Davey, you know they can't track, they hum, and they have been known to steal your stuff when you're not looking. 

 

[BaMorin]

Just as soon as I'm 100% convinced that a different body I have here sounds like the G1+ body I have, I'll send that to you. The Z+, although an upper crust of the company line I don't think has the last little something the Signature bodies or the G1 body has.  I've swapped out the stylus of my Z2+ into my G1+ and it sounds better to me than in the Z2 body. So I put the G1 stylus in the Z2 and it didn't change anything. Both the G1 and Z2 styli are nude mount diamonds. I have an original Signature 8 body that reads the same as my G1 body (700ohm/55mH) I just haven't run an 8MZ or MCZ stylus in it yet.

[DaveyW]

Come on Davey, you know they can't track, they hum, and they have been known to steal your stuff when you're not looking. 

 

Just checked my home insurance - Am not covered for that third Grado quirk you mention Mitsu 
Will keep a close eye on my gear while it's on the Ittok - thanks for the tip off   


The first two I am familiar with;

Re. tracking - I know there's many who have no problem with any Grado, personally I have had issues with IGD and sibilance with the Prestige line stylii.
Regardless of which alignment technique employed, I have struggled to get these rather chunky, bonded and not particularly highly polished diamonds to give as clean a presentation on inner tracks as other similarly priced carts (eg. AT 440Mla, Denon DL160, Ortofon 530 etc.).

Grado Gold



The MCZ is far superior in this respect.

Re. Hum - Yep! On the Sondek there is a small amount that gradually increases in volume as it tracks closer to the motor.
But it's at such a low level (I have to have the volume knob at 12 o'clock to hear it) that it is not audible when playing a record, even in very quiet passages.
It's certainly worth doing a little research on Hum susceptibility with your deck if you are considering a Grado, some are worse than others.

Cheers
Dave

[DaveyW]

Hi Marc,
Thanks for the offer of a loftier body/motor assy.
I have tried the MCZ in a few that you previously kindly leant me (including the MCZ) and the Potted Z+ at least matched any of them to my ears.
I will of course take heed of your much broader experience if you think I can squeeze even more out of these combo's - Thanks 
Please bear in mind that I've essentially "locked" the MCZ into the Z+ body via use of 3 small dots of blu-tac - it's going to be a little risky getting it out to try into another body.

[BaMorin]

My MCZ, and 8MZ bodies/styli are glued in a bit as well, which is why I haven't swapped those styli into the 8 body. Still waiting for the stylus for this 8 body to show up. The G1+ body, I have two of them, one you had in your hands but a coil went south during shipping. Even though the coils read 700 (or there abouts) they are quite small and very short in comparison to say the one you disassembled for discussion some time ago. They are also silver clad wire. The Sig 8 body is like my 8MZ body in outward appearance as the coils are wrapped in what appears to be teflon. I'm unsure of the length of the coils because I'm not about to pry off the outer shell. The paperwork that came with the G1+ states 10K minimum input load, I'm running it at 23K. The paperwork for the 8 and 8mz list 47K load yet the coils measure 700 and 475 respectivly. (???)
Re the MCZ body.  With it's low ouput, its possible that it didn't match your gain section and the inner micro detail was lost ( in comparison to your Z+ high output)

[Mitsuman]

My 8MZ stylus will be here Tuesday. I can't wait to pair it with my Longhorned Gold1. Any other setup tips Marc?

[Wayner]

Just checked my home insurance - Am not covered for that third Grado quirk you mention Mitsu 
Will keep a close eye on my gear while it's on the Ittok - thanks for the tip off   


The first two I am familiar with;

Re. tracking - I know there's many who have no problem with any Grado, personally I have had issues with IGD and sibilance with the Prestige line stylii.
Regardless of which alignment technique employed, I have struggled to get these rather chunky, bonded and not particularly highly polished diamonds to give as clean a presentation on inner tracks as other similarly priced carts (eg. AT 440Mla, Denon DL160, Ortofon 530 etc.).

Grado Gold



The MCZ is far superior in this respect.

Re. Hum - Yep! On the Sondek there is a small amount that gradually increases in volume as it tracks closer to the motor.
But it's at such a low level (I have to have the volume knob at 12 o'clock to hear it) that it is not audible when playing a record, even in very quiet passages.
It's certainly worth doing a little research on Hum susceptibility with your deck if you are considering a Grado, some are worse than others.

Cheers
Dave

Many have stated that the Grado has a tracking problem, regardless of alignment. That should send a message that the problem isn't the alignment, but rather, the stylus rake angle (SRA) that can be finicky with the Prestige line.

A couple of fellows named Risch and Maier experimented with SRA and thru measurement and trial and error, concluded that the ideal SRA for almost any stylus, played on any LP is 92°.

I run my Longhorn at this angle and it plows thru everything. I believe that almost all prestige cartridges will have a 90° SRA when the arm is parallel to the record surface, with the stylus in the groove. To get to 92° you are going to have to raise the VTA of the tonearm by 8mm, or .31 inches (5/16").

The only analogy I can apply here is fingers on the chalk board. Put your fingers on a table top surface so they are 90° and pull it towards you. You can feel, a vibration. Now lean the top of the fingers away from you and do the same thing. There is a different feel. That's what the cartridge is going thru.




Wayner

[Mitsuman]

Many have stated that the Grado has a tracking problem, regardless of alignment. That should send a message that the problem isn't the alignment, but rather, the stylus rake angle (SRA) that can be finicky with the Prestige line.

A couple of fellows named Risch and Maier experimented with SRA and thru measurement and trial and error, concluded that the ideal SRA for almost any stylus, played on any LP is 92°.

I run my Longhorn at this angle and it plows thru everything. I believe that almost all prestige cartridges will have a 90° SRA when the arm is parallel to the record surface, with the stylus in the groove. To get to 92° you are going to have to raise the VTA of the tonearm by 8mm, or .31 inches (5/16").

The only analogy I can apply here is fingers on the chalk board. Put your fingers on a table top surface so they are 90° and pull it towards you. You can feel, a vibration. Now lean the top of the fingers away from you and do the same thing. There is a different feel. That's what the cartridge is going thru.




Wayner

"Tail Up" is how I have always set my Grado's. 

And Wayner, my comment to Davey earlier is kind of an inside joke between he, Marc, and myself.

[BaMorin]

My 8MZ stylus will be here Tuesday. I can't wait to pair it with my Longhorned Gold1. Any other setup tips Marc?

None other than my basic obsevations. In any arm I've used, the tracking weight of the 8MZ or MCZ stylus is best at 1.62-1.65gr. And, little to zero antiskate once I find "zero" natural bias on my tonearm. I do that by checking the lateral imbalance first. That's an easy check that is often overlooked, or mis-understood. I zero float the arm with the stylus guard in place, bias setting at zero, and then raise the opposite side of the table to a slope equal to the arm offset. If the arm wants to climb uphill towards the spindle the bias has to be set to where it wants to quit climbing. That is "zero" then on your bias or antiskate weight. If if wants to fall though the arm has a natural antiskate. If your arm has a lateral balance weight device, that should be adjusted to prevent climb or fall.

[BaMorin]

Many have stated that the Grado has a tracking problem, regardless of alignment. That should send a message that the problem isn't the alignment, but rather, the stylus rake angle (SRA) that can be finicky with the Prestige line.

A couple of fellows named Risch and Maier experimented with SRA and thru measurement and trial and error, concluded that the ideal SRA for almost any stylus, played on any LP is 92°.

I run my Longhorn at this angle and it plows thru everything. I believe that almost all prestige cartridges will have a 90° SRA when the arm is parallel to the record surface, with the stylus in the groove. To get to 92° you are going to have to raise the VTA of the tonearm by 8mm, or .31 inches (5/16").

The only analogy I can apply here is fingers on the chalk board. Put your fingers on a table top surface so they are 90° and pull it towards you. You can feel, a vibration. Now lean the top of the fingers away from you and do the same thing. There is a different feel. That's what the cartridge is going thru.




Wayner

From what I can see under my microscope, and scanning the area of groove contact area on my G-1, 8MZ, MCZ, Sonata-1 stylus, the diamond is ground at a slightly different angle than the stock line. Moving from the area I would consider to be the junction of the minor and major radii (lets use .0002" X .0007" as an example)
And then scanning slightly up the stylus untill I find what would be considered (by my thinking) the maximum major radius to stay far enough into the groove to extract higher frequency information (.0009"). The above mentioned styli are cut with a natural forward rake. That could possibly be 92deg. My best "guessing" for that is to keep the scanning area in a more prime position with the cantilever deflection during play. With a standard cut of the diamond to be @ 90deg, during playback and the modulation lifts the cantilever (but not the cart or arm) the rake angle goes well below 90deg.  The question then becomes what is the maximum of (deflection)+/- of 90deg of actual SRA before it become audible in playback? Its obvious that starting with an addition of 2 deg that the maximum minus to 90deg has been reduced by 2 deg. But does it also further reduce the maximum to minus 90 by changing the bending modes in the cantilever itself? As Wayner mentions as a different feel

[Wayner]

Yes, your ears have to be the final judge on the SRA thing. The usual rules apply here. Too much ass end up generally leads to a shrilly sound, too low and it gets sounding a bit tubby and looses soundstage.

Many tables do not have VTA adjustment or can be made easily. Of course, the relationship between stylus and cartridge mounting surface can be all over the place, perhaps even between like models (hopefully not) so an examination of the relationship is the first order of business. I've done that with my digital camera zoom mode (camera on a tripod) and the cartridge mounted, stylus in a record groove. It is very difficult, but may be worth it in the end.

Wayner