Incredible Soundstage from CD

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Chris Adams

Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #20 on: 18 Jul 2021, 02:18 am »
I think the Q sound only applies to the CD. It's a function of the mastering process, not the recording process. It would be interesting to have both in order to compare them.

Note Saturn94's comment, that the version streaming on Qobuz doesn't have the same sonic characteristics as the CD.

I stream from Tidal and QSound works perfectly.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #21 on: 18 Jul 2021, 02:44 am »
The album description on Qobuz clarifies the situation:

You can also buy devices that add reverb to everything to get a similarly fake audio spectacle.

Real soundstage is a matter of excellent stereo recording, mixing, and mastering.
Real life already bad enough, the absolute sound is personal choice of each listener, real music may have good sound live or no.

Since the 1980s I was fooled by the moto The Absolute Sound is Live Music and thinked it true and was the way to go  :duh:
« Last Edit: 18 Jul 2021, 11:18 pm by FullRangeMan »

speltz

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #22 on: 18 Jul 2021, 06:32 pm »
Listening to my CD, QSound mixed release of Immaculate Collection and the streaming version on Qobuz, it appears the version on Qobuz is not the QSound mix.  This makes me think the other QSound mixes listed on the Wiki may not be the same mixes on Qobuz (anyone here know?). ☹️
Hi, Chris. I don’t stream Qobuz myself. I was expressly referring to something Saturn94 wrote earlier in the thread — see above.

Fullrangeman: No one is claiming that the Immaculate Collection has “Absolute Sound.” We’re just saying that it has an extraordinary stereo effect. Since the effect is achieved through electronic trickery — Q Sound — I would conclude that it is definitely NOT absolute, or even audiophile-calibre, sound.

But it’s certainly an interesting listening experience for those who care to check it out.

Chris Adams

Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #23 on: 18 Jul 2021, 06:40 pm »
I've heard QSound on well recorded and not so well recorded albums/songs. On the not so well recorded, it's entertaining. On the well recorded, I could listen all day. Love the effect, I don't care that it isn't "the absolute sound".

SteveFord

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #24 on: 18 Jul 2021, 06:55 pm »
I guess that explains why I liked the CD Pulse so much last time I blasted it.
I'll have to give it another listen.

Saturn94

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #25 on: 18 Jul 2021, 07:16 pm »
I've heard QSound on well recorded and not so well recorded albums/songs. On the not so well recorded, it's entertaining. On the well recorded, I could listen all day. Love the effect, I don't care that it isn't "the absolute sound".

 :thumb:

FullRangeMan

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #26 on: 18 Jul 2021, 11:27 pm »
A few years a go a AC member had in to Q Sound, they were selling a Q Sound processor for home audio on its site, the demo on the site was impressive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QSound

https://www.qsound.com/

https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/qsound/


Seems the hi-fi audio product for us are the QXpander.
QXpander®:
QSound’s proprietary 3D spatial processing literally adds new dimension to music playback, expanding the sound stage beyond the physical limitations of speaker locations, and expanding the acoustic image outside the listener’s head when listening with headphones.


QXpander employs purpose-specific algorithms for maximum spatial impact on headphones or speakers. Audio enhancement is achieved using normal stereo signals and standard audio playback equipment, creating a stereo image with depth in three dimensions from ordinary left and right input channels.

speltz

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #27 on: 19 Jul 2021, 02:32 pm »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QSound

https://www.qsound.com/

https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/qsound/


Seems the hi-fi audio product for us are the QXpander.
QXpander®:
QSound’s proprietary 3D spatial processing literally adds new dimension to music playback, expanding the sound stage beyond the physical limitations of speaker locations, and expanding the acoustic image outside the listener’s head when listening with headphones.
Thanks for the additional links, Fullrangeman. The statement (in the PS Audio link), “It was kind of like listening to a cross between headphones and speakers” describes my experience of the Madonna tracks very well.

I also appreciated the following opinion: “If your speakers or your room setup produce a less than amazing soundstage on QSound recordings, some important things are going very wrong — and I’ve heard some expensive systems get it wrong.”

That speaks to a question that was raised in my mind by the QSound information. I stated, earlier, that the Madonna CD was a good source to demonstrate your stereo system’s capacity to project a vivid soundstage. But I wondered if that were true after learning that QSound is reliant upon electronic manipulation.

The guy quoted above says he has heard systems that don’t present an adequate soundstage even with QSound material. Interesting.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #28 on: 19 Jul 2021, 02:51 pm »
But I wondered if that were true after learning that QSound is reliant upon electronic manipulation.
My opinion is that Q Sound is not suitable for evaluating speakers because Q embellishes the music beyond the usual.

The guy quoted above says he has heard systems that don’t present an adequate soundstage even with QSound material. Interesting.
I think this is due to the xover of the speakers, the fact that he didnt say the reason is already suspect.

Q Sound is a great technology to built in a DAC or pre-amp.

Saturn94

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #29 on: 19 Jul 2021, 04:06 pm »

…That speaks to a question that was raised in my mind by the QSound information. I stated, earlier, that the Madonna CD was a good source to demonstrate your stereo system’s capacity to project a vivid soundstage. But I wondered if that were true after learning that QSound is reliant upon electronic manipulation.

The guy quoted above says he has heard systems that don’t present an adequate soundstage even with QSound material. Interesting.

Given that at least part of QSound involves phase manipulation, it makes sense that speakers would need to be phase accurate to faithfully produce the QSound effect.  In my experience, speakers that can faithfully produce the soundstage effects of processing like QSound also do an excellent job with traditional stereo recordings (assuming proper setup and listening position of course).


Saturn94

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #30 on: 19 Jul 2021, 04:12 pm »
While there’s no mention of QSound, Peter Gabriel’s “Growing Up” track on the “Up” CD has some impressive way outside the speakers/surround like effects.

PS - The multichannel SACD version (I have the CD and Mch SACD) is great as well!  :thumb:




Saturn94

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #31 on: 19 Jul 2021, 04:24 pm »
I just came across this in an old post on AVS;

“… But I've recently found that Dolby PLIIx Music does a fantastic***, stand-up job of decoding QSound, sending the requisite sounds to exactly the same places that I hear them on a good and simple stereo system. This opens up existing QSound recordings to be listened to by the masses, with random listener placement, just like Quad was supposed to do...”


https://www.avsforum.com/threads/qsound-list-of-material.1988490/

Interesting.  I’ll have to give it a try.

SlushPuppy

Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #32 on: 19 Jul 2021, 06:28 pm »
Prefab Sprout made an album in the late 90's called "Andromeda Heights". It used a process called Sensaura, which was similar to Q Sound, but to my ears was way more effective at placing sounds throughout the room. In a good listening room the effects are pretty incredible.

Amazon Link

qdrone

Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #33 on: 19 Jul 2021, 07:03 pm »
My favorite solo outing by Pink Floyd alumni  is Richard Wrights Breaking China with guest Sinead  O'Connor. It's a lights out selection with 3 fingers of Black Bush over ice. Trippy to say the least in Q sound..

Saturn94

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #34 on: 19 Jul 2021, 08:35 pm »
Listening to my CD, QSound mixed release of Immaculate Collection and the streaming version on Qobuz, it appears the version on Qobuz is not the QSound mix.  This makes me think the other QSound mixes listed on the Wiki may not be the same mixes on Qobuz (anyone here know?). ☹️

Correction…… :oops:

Upon comparing more tracks on this CD to the Qobuz version, it does appear QSound is used on some, if not most tracks.  Before I was using the track “Lucky Star” for comparison since it’s obvious at the intro if QSound is used.  I  noticed some of the tracks on the Qobuz release are labeled “remix”, including “Lucky Star”, so it may be these remixed tracks lack QSound whereas the others maintain the QSound processing. 

Saturn94

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #35 on: 19 Jul 2021, 08:50 pm »
I just came across this in an old post on AVS;

“… But I've recently found that Dolby PLIIx Music does a fantastic***, stand-up job of decoding QSound, sending the requisite sounds to exactly the same places that I hear them on a good and simple stereo system. This opens up existing QSound recordings to be listened to by the masses, with random listener placement, just like Quad was supposed to do...”


https://www.avsforum.com/threads/qsound-list-of-material.1988490/

Interesting.  I’ll have to give it a try.

Update…
Dolby PLIIx Music does indeed “decode” QSound very well.  :thumb:

speltz

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #36 on: 31 Jul 2021, 01:42 pm »
I have Shawn Colvin's A Few Small Repairs on both vinyl and CD. I noticed that this is another album that was mixed in QSound. But when I compared the vinyl to the CD, it was immediately apparent that the remastered vinyl isn't in QSound.





The QSound version is a much more pleasurable listen. It doesn't present the extreme soundstage of Madonna's Immaculate Collection -- no sounds coming from directly beside the listener. Nonetheless the soundstage is impressively wide, extending beyond both speakers. The sound is coherent, dynamic and engaging. One of the best-sounding CDs in my collection.

I generally prefer vinyl but this case is a clear exception. The LP presents a much narrower soundstage, and it is a much less engaging listen.

I know the thread is getting a little stale but I thought it was worth adding an instance where I was able to make a direct comparison.

Phil A

Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #37 on: 31 Jul 2021, 02:36 pm »
I didn't realize the Shawn Colvin CD was Q-Sound (pretty sure I have it and a bunch of others - I buy too much music, mostly downloads in recent years unless I like the music and there's no choice).  Here's a bigger list:

http://www.qsound.com/spotlight/users/recording-artists.htm

I probably have 8 or 9 things on the list

Saturn94

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #38 on: 31 Jul 2021, 04:39 pm »
I have Shawn Colvin's A Few Small Repairs on both vinyl and CD. I noticed that this is another album that was mixed in QSound. But when I compared the vinyl to the CD, it was immediately apparent that the remastered vinyl isn't in QSound.





The QSound version is a much more pleasurable listen. It doesn't present the extreme soundstage of Madonna's Immaculate Collection -- no sounds coming from directly beside the listener. Nonetheless the soundstage is impressively wide, extending beyond both speakers. The sound is coherent, dynamic and engaging. One of the best-sounding CDs in my collection.

I generally prefer vinyl but this case is a clear exception. The LP presents a much narrower soundstage, and it is a much less engaging listen.

I know the thread is getting a little stale but I thought it was worth adding an instance where I was able to make a direct comparison.

I’ll check that out.  :thumb:

Saturn94

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Re: Incredible Soundstage from CD
« Reply #39 on: 31 Jul 2021, 04:40 pm »
I didn't realize the Shawn Colvin CD was Q-Sound (pretty sure I have it and a bunch of others - I buy too much music, mostly downloads in recent years unless I like the music and there's no choice).  Here's a bigger list:

http://www.qsound.com/spotlight/users/recording-artists.htm

I probably have 8 or 9 things on the list

I’m looking forward to checking out some of those albums.  :thumb: