The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!

morganc · « **Reply #540 on:** 6 Oct 2010, 05:42 pm »

I'm definitely interested in one of the Trade In Units

..please put me on the list.
Also, any advice from the forum members on Mac Minis, which model/upgrades/etc? I have read through the forums, but find the info confusing to say the least.
Thanks,
Morgan

highfilter · « **Reply #541 on:** 6 Oct 2010, 06:14 pm »

Quote from: morganc on 6 Oct 2010, 05:42 pm

I'm definitely interested in one of the Trade In Units ..please put me on the list.
Also, any advice from the forum members on Mac Minis, which model/upgrades/etc? I have read through the forums, but find the info confusing to say the least.
Thanks,
Morgan

There's a lot of information out there, but I'll help get you started.

1. Get a 2010 Mac Mini. The models currently in stores/online are the new ones. They sound better than the 2009 and previous models (even the modded 2009 versions). Better isolation, lower noise power supply, etc etc.

2. Possible Mac Mini hardware and cable upgrades to improve performance:

2. a) Replace the hard drive with a Solid State Drive (no moving parts, low power consumption). I recommend this Intel drive, it is really fast and has one of the lowest watt-usage ratings: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Intel/SSDX25M80GEN/. For something a little cheaper, you can grab something like this: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internal_storage/Mercury_Extreme_SSD_Sandforce

2. b) You can also upgrade the amount of memory in the Mac, which people have said improves separate a bit: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Apple_Mac_mini/DDR3

2. c) Even though a lot of audiophile power cords have had little to no affect on the 2010 Mac Mini, Dave from PI Audio has brewed up a special cable that actually benefits and opens up the Mac Mini even more. I've talked to Eric and he was impressed with the cable as well. You can find out more here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=86123.0

2. d) Probably the most significant improvement you can do (especially for a USB DAC) is to grab a great sounding USB cable. The Essential cable from dB Audio Labs is very, very good. It blew me away compared to a stock USB cable and it's really something else. Eric also has a Signature Edition USB cable, so phone him up to get the scoop on that. You can read more about that on their site: http://www.dbaudiolabs.com/

3. Eric (from dB Audio Labs), recommends having your music on an external firewire drive with the Oxford 934 chipset. Firewire so it is separate from USB, and the chipset is supposed to be one of the best sounding period, for music playback. You can find them here: http://oyendigital.com/hard-drives/store/CB2-52-1000-M.html

4. Software tweaks for the Mac Mini. These are never ending and there's tons of them out there. Few processes running means the computer doesn't have to work as hard, which lowers the amount of power each component uses in the computer, and lets more of the music to come through without being affected by noise from the components. Good place to start: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=74816.400

5. There's a few setup things that can help. Put the USB DAC cable in the second USB connection towards the center of the back of the Mac Mini (This is supposed to be the best sounding one. I believe it has the best isolation but others can chime in if they have other thoughts as to why). Do not have any USB device other than the USB DAC attached to the Mac Mini during critical listening. I personally control the Mac Mini from my iPod Touch, so I have nothing but the DAC hooked up. If you control the Mac Mini from a mobile device like the iPod Touch, you can also have no video displays looked up to the Mac Mini, so it's totally isolated from anything but the DAC.

There's endless tweaks that can be done to improve the sound by steps and steps, but this should start things off nicely for you. I haven't heard digital music sound this good, ever. Very fun times.

jrebman · « **Reply #542 on:** 6 Oct 2010, 06:45 pm »

Highfilter,

What app do you use on the iPod Touch to control the mini remotely? I'm brand new to the mac world and don't even have my Touch yet, but i'm curious how this works -- on both the Touch and Mini side of the equation.

-- Jim

wilsynet · « **Reply #543 on:** 6 Oct 2010, 07:07 pm »

Apple has an app for the Touch which is just called "Remote" for controlling iTunes remotely.

highfilter · « **Reply #544 on:** 6 Oct 2010, 08:14 pm »

Quote from: jrebman on 6 Oct 2010, 06:45 pm

Highfilter,

What app do you use on the iPod Touch to control the mini remotely? I'm brand new to the mac world and don't even have my Touch yet, but i'm curious how this works -- on both the Touch and Mini side of the equation.

-- Jim

I haven't tried globally controlling the OS from the iPod Touch, but you can get VNC apps that will allow you to basically turn your Touch into a monitor. But right now, I use the "Remote" app to control the playlist from iTunes/Pure Music (on the Mac side) and Foobar2000 (on the PC side - using "foo_touchremote". You can find the plugin (currently doesn't work with the newest version of Remote, but does on the earlier versions) here: http://wintense.com/plugins/foo_touchremote). I am experimenting between running Mac OS X and Windows 7 on my Mac Mini. Foobar2000 cannot be beat for functionality at the moment (from what I have tried), as I have about 4TB of music on my PC in another room, running an ethernet cable to my Mac Mini, and having Foobar share the folders across the network. Foobar has been the easiest, fastest and most "real-time" listening solution I have found. Loading 4TB of music in Mac OS X using iTunes is horrifying and painful. iTunes is horrible for indexing and has all these extra processes like determining gapless playback and a bunch of other bloat.

A few people have said that the best music listening application is "Play", for the Mac. I haven't done personal testing to compare it, but right now I need a solution that can index and share my 4TB of music easily and play it back with good functionality and sound quality. Right now, my Mac Mini running Windows 7 and Foobar via Kernel Streaming sounds really good and has the best functionality. I will begin to compare it directly with Mac OS X and Play, but if the sound quality has only minimal differences, I'd like to keep the functionality of having my entire music location in my hand, without hassle.

It might come down to just using Play on the Mac OS X for critical, critical listening - and using Foobar / Windows 7 for every other day. We shall see.

jrebman · « **Reply #545 on:** 6 Oct 2010, 08:33 pm »

Wilson, thanks -- I'll go look that up to see how it fares with VoiceOver.

Highfilter, These all sounds like interesting experiments, but I know the current version of Play doesn't work with the VoiceOver screen reader on the Mac, but I've already been in contact with Stephen Booth and he will be adding VO support in his new release, supposedly coming out soon.

I'll have to look into that foobar plug-in as I currently use foobar on my little Asus EEE box media computer. My 2010 mini is out getting "blueprinted" and when that comes back, I'll be able to do some of the comparisons too. Then the alix-based linux box running MPD will be thrown into the mix to see how they all compare to each other.

Thanks again,

Jim

wilsynet · « **Reply #546 on:** 6 Oct 2010, 10:10 pm »

http://itunes.apple.com/app/remote/id284417350?mt=8

jrebman · « **Reply #547 on:** 6 Oct 2010, 10:31 pm »

Wilson,

Thanks -- I just found that link a short while ago.

Appreciate the assistance though,

-- Jim

clearlight · « **Reply #548 on:** 6 Oct 2010, 10:59 pm »

There is also the recently released PS Audio tagNplay UPnP/DLNA app that includes things like artist's bio's and a radio tuner. I've heard updates from them from time to time on it's development and what they wanted this to accomplish in making access of music easier and cool. Foobar 2000 is one of a number of players it supports.

http://itunes.apple.com/app/ps-audios-tagnplay/id384182119?mt=8

One intriuging thing related to the app on the PS Audio webssite was the current availibility of eTracks - a High Res. non compressed radio station (first of many) playable with the app. I wonder if they are linking into a station such as KEXP Seattle or....what? pS Audio is also utilizing cloud computing for their Perfect Wave dac online music database, wonder if they are connected somehow.

david

bhobba · « **Reply #549 on:** 7 Oct 2010, 12:04 am »

Quote from: highfilter on 6 Oct 2010, 08:14 pm

It might come down to just using Play on the Mac OS X for critical, critical listening - and using Foobar / Windows 7 for every other day. We shall see.

Eric initially reported that Play may have been slightly more neutral than other programs such as Pure Music or Amarra. I thought so as well. However during a listening session I did with a few other people including Mike Lenehan (the maker of ML1's) , we all thought Play was clearer but Mike noticed the bass suffered over Itunes. We were about to investigate it when some customers arrived and we had to wind up the session. Anyway I mentioned it to Eric and unknown to me he investigated it. Yep - Play while clearer does have issues with bass. Because of that I will be using Pure Music.

Thanks
Bill

highfilter · « **Reply #550 on:** 7 Oct 2010, 12:22 am »

Quote from: bhobba on 7 Oct 2010, 12:04 am

Eric initially reported that Play may have been slightly more neutral than other programs such as Pure Music or Amarra. I thought so as well. However during a listening session I did with a few other people including Mike Lenehan (the maker of ML1.s) , we all thought Play was clearer but Mike noticed the bass suffered over Itunes. We were about to investigate it when some customers arrived and we had to wind up the session. Anyway I mentioned it to Eric and unknown to me he investigated it. Yep - Play while clearer does have issues with bass. Because of that I will be using Pure Music.

Thanks
Bill

Interesting, thanks for the heads up. I'll make sure to keep that in mind while comparing the different players.

Does anyone else have any other networking solutions for having mass storage streamed over the network? iTunes is horrible and it seems everything on the Mac relies on iTunes to have library support, which is sad because I don't find it well made at all in terms of having a huge library of music. I know most people on these forums focus on pure sound quality and don't mind just having a small hard drive with some tracks on it, but if I can't access half my music, it kind of defeats the purpose of digital music for me. And I don't want a huge 4 to 6-bay drive enclosure or something else near my Mac Mini or listening room, because all my storage and workstation is completely separate and I never use the Mac Mini for anything else but pressing play. I might have to bite the bullet and transfer some songs over the network to the Mac Min if I want to listen to them in my main system, but I'm just surprised there's nothing that really is developed for the Mac besides iTunes for network/library support.

With Foobar on Windows 7, you can add shared folders and have everything indexed and streamed within minutes. And it doesn't need to determine gapless playback or cause a huge load on the computer - and if you add new music to those shared folders, it indexes it right away and you don't even notice it working in the background. Maybe I am missing something as I am new to the Mac world, but it seems to be a real pain in the ass to get simple library support for an audio player that is actually developed properly.

ted_b · « **Reply #551 on:** 7 Oct 2010, 01:01 am »

Yes, I also found Play to be someehat lf restricted, but didn't "play" with it for anywhere near the time I've had with PM or Amarra. I use PM in hog mode most of the time, but sometimes when demoing a neutral-to-lean DAC (or during break in, etc) I find that Amarra can flesh it out better than PM. I guess in my system Amarra tends to have a very very slight lower midrange bump, something clearly my Weiss doesn't agree with (PM is the perfect Weiss companion for me) but that sounds great with other sources. It's all about synergy.

morganc · « **Reply #552 on:** 7 Oct 2010, 01:28 am »

Thanks for all the great info....that should keep me busy for quite a while!

Quote from: highfilter on 6 Oct 2010, 06:14 pm

There's a lot of information out there, but I'll help get you started.

1. Get a 2010 Mac Mini. The models currently in stores/online are the new ones. They sound better than the 2009 and previous models (even the modded 2009 versions). Better isolation, lower noise power supply, etc etc.

2. Possible Mac Mini hardware and cable upgrades to improve performance:

2. a) Replace the hard drive with a Solid State Drive (no moving parts, low power consumption). I recommend this Intel drive, it is really fast and has one of the lowest watt-usage ratings: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Intel/SSDX25M80GEN/. For something a little cheaper, you can grab something like this: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internal_storage/Mercury_Extreme_SSD_Sandforce

2. b) You can also upgrade the amount of memory in the Mac, which people have said improves separate a bit: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Apple_Mac_mini/DDR3

2. c) Even though a lot of audiophile power cords have had little to no affect on the 2010 Mac Mini, Dave from PI Audio has brewed up a special cable that actually benefits and opens up the Mac Mini even more. I've talked to Eric and he was impressed with the cable as well. You can find out more here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=86123.0

2. d) Probably the most significant improvement you can do (especially for a USB DAC) is to grab a great sounding USB cable. The Essential cable from dB Audio Labs is very, very good. It blew me away compared to a stock USB cable and it's really something else. Eric also has a Signature Edition USB cable, so phone him up to get the scoop on that. You can read more about that on their site: http://www.dbaudiolabs.com/

3. Eric (from dB Audio Labs), recommends having your music on an external firewire drive with the Oxford 934 chipset. Firewire so it is separate from USB, and the chipset is supposed to be one of the best sounding period, for music playback. You can find them here: http://oyendigital.com/hard-drives/store/CB2-52-1000-M.html

4. Software tweaks for the Mac Mini. These are never ending and there's tons of them out there. Few processes running means the computer doesn't have to work as hard, which lowers the amount of power each component uses in the computer, and lets more of the music to come through without being affected by noise from the components. Good place to start: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=74816.400

5. There's a few setup things that can help. Put the USB DAC cable in the second USB connection towards the center of the back of the Mac Mini (This is supposed to be the best sounding one. I believe it has the best isolation but others can chime in if they have other thoughts as to why). Do not have any USB device other than the USB DAC attached to the Mac Mini during critical listening. I personally control the Mac Mini from my iPod Touch, so I have nothing but the DAC hooked up. If you control the Mac Mini from a mobile device like the iPod Touch, you can also have no video displays looked up to the Mac Mini, so it's totally isolated from anything but the DAC.

There's endless tweaks that can be done to improve the sound by steps and steps, but this should start things off nicely for you. I haven't heard digital music sound this good, ever. Very fun times.

bhobba · « **Reply #553 on:** 7 Oct 2010, 02:55 am »

Quote from: ted_b on 7 Oct 2010, 01:01 am

It's all about synergy.

Hi Ted

You aren't whistling Dixie.

Just downloaded Pure Music. Man in my system does it sound good. So much more vivid detailed and alive. I think part of it is those ML1's total lack of cabinet resonances - any increase in detail is readily discerned. IMHO leaves Play and Itunes in the dust.

Thanks
Bill

mamba315 · « **Reply #554 on:** 7 Oct 2010, 03:41 am »

Quote from: bhobba on 7 Oct 2010, 02:55 am

Just downloaded Pure Music. Man in my system does it sound good. So much more vivid detailed and alive. I think part of it is those ML1's total lack of cabinet resonances - any increase in detail is readily discerned. IMHO leaves Play and Itunes in the dust.

I had the exact same experience when I switched from Play to Pure Music. I couldn't get over how dynamic and punchy PM was in comparison. I initially thought it might be more fatiguing during long sessions but experience has proven that wrong. Just more alive and detailed; now Play sounds veiled. Regarding cabinet resonances, my Gallo Stradas also have nearly none to speak of. Maybe that does have something to do with it.

Matt

highfilter · « **Reply #555 on:** 7 Oct 2010, 05:27 am »

Quote from: mamba315 on 7 Oct 2010, 03:41 am

I had the exact same experience when I switched from Play to Pure Music. I couldn't get over how dynamic and punchy PM was in comparison. I initially thought it might be more fatiguing during long sessions but experience has proven that wrong. Just more alive and detailed; now Play sounds veiled. Regarding cabinet resonances, my Gallo Stradas also have nearly none to speak of. Maybe that does have something to do with it.

Matt

Question, I have not received my Tranquility Signature yet, but do you have to set Pure Music to a set 16/44 so it properly plays in the Tranquility or does it matter? Just asking because I know Pure Music supports dynamic sample rate switching and will switch the output to whatever the file has. Was just wondering if all the signals have to be 16/44 for the Tranquility to accept, or if you are playing a 24/192 file and it outputs that stream, if the Tranquility just puts it down to 16/44 since there are no special drivers for it.

bhobba · « **Reply #556 on:** 7 Oct 2010, 08:56 am »

Quote from: highfilter on 7 Oct 2010, 05:27 am

Question, I have not received my Tranquility Signature yet, but do you have to set Pure Music to a set 16/44 so it properly plays in the Tranquility or does it matter? Just asking because I know Pure Music supports dynamic sample rate switching and will switch the output to whatever the file has. Was just wondering if all the signals have to be 16/44 for the Tranquility to accept, or if you are playing a 24/192 file and it outputs that stream, if the Tranquility just puts it down to 16/44 since there are no special drivers for it.

Its dead set simple - you simply enable memory playback - that's it.

Thanks
Bill

Bigfish · « **Reply #557 on:** 7 Oct 2010, 12:08 pm »

Are you guys running Pure Music in Hog Mode? If not you are in for a real treat when you try it!

Ken

ted_b · « **Reply #558 on:** 7 Oct 2010, 01:07 pm »

Quote from: Bigfish on 7 Oct 2010, 12:08 pm

Are you guys running Pure Music in Hog Mode? If not you are in for a real treat when you try it!

Ken

As stated in my post I run hog mode, and wouldn't ever run PM without it. Big difference. And in the latest 1.6x version of PM it's easy. It makes going back and forth to Amarra difficult ...but big deal.

bhobba · « **Reply #559 on:** 7 Oct 2010, 01:41 pm »

Quote from: Bigfish on 7 Oct 2010, 12:08 pm

Are you guys running Pure Music in Hog Mode? If not you are in for a real treat when you try it!

The Tranquility DAC doesn't support it.

Thanks
Bil