New member - questions on X-Voce centre

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Vince in TX

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #20 on: 9 Jun 2021, 01:17 am »
@Vince - what is the idea behind placing no-rez (I assume?) around the x-over on the X-Voce?

I am actually the second owner of these speakers.   The original owner is also on here, Steven Stone.   He wrote a review on them way back when where he described the modifications you see.   The Ninja Crossovers came later:  https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/im-x-static-for-voce

EDIT:  Side note, here is the genesis of the modifications that came after the article:  https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61602.msg628580#msg628580

mlundy57

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #21 on: 9 Jun 2021, 01:23 am »
@mlundy57 - those are some beautiful speakers - I love how you have integrated the design between the various components.

Does anyone have thoughts on my previous question of using 25mm (~1 inch) thick MDF for the cabinets, with 18mm for the internal baffles?

Thanks for all the notes - I'm learning a lot.  Just waiting for a few quotes back from Danny before hopefully placing an order - I guess inventory holding is a major head-ache for everyone presently.

D

Thanks. They sound way better than they look.

You can use the thicker MDF, no problem. Just be sure to adjust the dimensions so that the internal volume stays the same.

dryan01uk

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #22 on: 9 Jun 2021, 01:42 am »
@Vince - that was a very interesting read.  My anticipation is building for these things.

@mlundy57 - thanks for the notes on internal volume - that aligns with my thinking.

Looks like Danny and Co have just received a delivery of top-notch components - hopefully my quotes are in the mix, somewhere  :D

D

Theronbo

Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #23 on: 10 Jun 2021, 03:03 am »
Ive been meaning to ask this and thought it best to do so here rather than make a new thread.

The CNC flat pack for the X-Voce on the GR website appears to have a front baffle that is wider for the sealed sections than the open-baffle section. Looking at the supplied plans, the front baffle is to be one consistent width from end to end. Does it matter? Or more directly, what is the correct layout?

I need to convert the Spanish/metric instructions into a format that will work for me. Planning on using kreg pocket screws to secure sides/top of sealed chambers, then rabbiting the backs and attaching that way.

X-Voce cut list in English

Bottom: 36" x 14 1/4"
Sides: 7" x 14 1/4"
Back Panels: 7" x 7"
Top Panels: 8 1/2" x 14 1/4"
Baffle: 36" x 8.5"


I used this _exactly_ to build mine.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #24 on: 10 Jun 2021, 03:36 am »
Yeah the measurements in the original AV cabinet are all in Metric, so the cuts and spacing arent 1:1

I sent Danny a new cut sheet thats in English and more similar to the current X-Series pages, but I still need to adjust some woofer spacing on the front page before we can get it up on the website, tho my PC isn't currently up and running, so i can't make the necessary changes until the rest of my stuff arrives in the next few days.

dryan01uk

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #25 on: 10 Jun 2021, 07:14 am »
Yeah the measurements in the original AV cabinet are all in Metric, so the cuts and spacing arent 1:1

I sent Danny a new cut sheet thats in English and more similar to the current X-Series pages, but I still need to adjust some woofer spacing on the front page before we can get it up on the website, tho my PC isn't currently up and running, so i can't make the necessary changes until the rest of my stuff arrives in the next few days.

I got some plans from Danny for the X-Voce, along with some corrections he wanted to make.  As I'm considering local CNC router cutting for the flat packs for my proposed builds - just waiting for quotes (because y'know, COVID), I've been using drawings as a starting point - I had to make adjustments to the PDF.  I edited it like this....



And, yes, I'm going to have to adjust back from imperial to metric.

Hope this helps.  I also deleted the binding post cut-out (not shown) as I want to go with tube connectors.

D

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #26 on: 10 Jun 2021, 12:30 pm »
Yup that's the one I was working on. Jut need to fix the values, like what is shown in your pic. :P

GaryPC

Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #27 on: 25 Jun 2021, 04:28 pm »
I just received X-Voce dimensions from GR last night they are a little different that noted in this thread.
The top and sides are 14.75" and 14.0" respectively. This could just be the way they are assembled?




hawkeyejw

Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #28 on: 25 Jun 2021, 04:42 pm »
Looks like they have it so that the side panels have a 14" depth, and the top panels are 14.75" so that they cover the rear panels.

Chewbacca

Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #29 on: 25 Jun 2021, 05:22 pm »
I would almost think you would want to run the sides @ 14.75 also. Then the back @ 8" (or 7.25" and your inside panels @ 14.75" as well) This eliminates the need for perfectly finishing the butt joins on the sides and and inside cutout side, and definitely run the bottom inside the sides. Although you already will have to finish the sides due to seeing the top edge and front edge on the sides.  BUT, it is two less edges per side that won't need the be "perfect". I assume you're just gluing this together? But if not, you would most likely need to put the top/s on last as you'd need to use pocket screws, or a cleat/L bracket to secure the panels together from the inside, or just go with glue and clamps and call it a day... a Titebond or equivalent should be PLENTY strong ofc. A saying in the woodworking industry is "screws are just there to secure the panels together until the glue dries"... or something like that :lol:

Chewbacca

Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #30 on: 25 Jun 2021, 05:24 pm »
Unless you're veneering! Then you should just cap the backs as the veneer will cover all the butt joints... Sorry, haven't read the whole thread :duh:

hawkeyejw

Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #31 on: 25 Jun 2021, 05:36 pm »
I would almost think you would want to run the sides @ 14.75 also. Then the back @ 8" (or 7.25" and your inside panels @ 14.75" as well) This eliminates the need for perfectly finishing the butt joins on the sides and and inside cutout side, and definitely run the bottom inside the sides. Although you already will have to finish the sides due to seeing the top edge and front edge on the sides.  BUT, it is two less edges per side that won't need the be "perfect". I assume you're just gluing this together? But if not, you would most likely need to put the top/s on last as you'd need to use pocket screws, or a cleat/L bracket to secure the panels together from the inside, or just go with glue and clamps and call it a day... a Titebond or equivalent should be PLENTY strong ofc. A saying in the woodworking industry is "screws are just there to secure the panels together until the glue dries"... or something like that :lol:

This is the way I built mine so that the rough edges of the MDF were on the back of the speaker.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #32 on: 26 Jun 2021, 03:36 am »
My thought when designing this version of the cabinet plans was to make it easy to clamp the front panel to the back all at once.

The original plans were all in either Spanish or Portuguese and in metric. And they also used 45°cuts for all joints..
Which i assume is a bit more difficult for people to work with or cut without a table saw.

I still need to fix a couple measurements on the front page,
But i still haven't had a chance to set up my PC to be able to fix it.
Doesn't help that the starter in my car just died today, and I dont have any of my displays in the apartment yet...  :duh:

Hope that explains things a bit! :P

hawkeyejw

Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #33 on: 26 Jun 2021, 07:09 am »
No worries Hobbs, there’s plenty of ways to approach it and the new version you drew up is definitely easier than the original with all the 45 degree cuts. Theronbo’s cut list looks like the translation I did which is pretty close to yours. Thankfully it’s a really easy build once you cut the panels, much easier than the statics!

GaryPC

Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #34 on: 27 Jun 2021, 04:55 pm »
I'm gluing up with biscuits today, I imagine the latest MDF configuration will be really good for gluing and it does stand well for set up

.
For several reasons including durability, concern for lost volume, and it didn't come with the kit, I do not want to use No Rez anywhere on this.  If there is any significant resonances I would much rather put in extra bracing or layers of MDF.  Perhaps a 1-1/2" dowel across the center between woof inside walls would stiffen the whole assembly? 
Making the the woofer tops removable perhaps using screws will allow No Rez etc. etc. to be added later.   

corndog71

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #35 on: 27 Jun 2021, 05:34 pm »
No Rez does not affect volume.  It’s more effective than you think at reducing cabinet resonance.  Danny designs well-braced cabinets AND uses No Rez.  I can understand some hesitation perhaps due to the cost but after adding No Rez to several speakers including ones not by Danny, I can confirm it’s worth using.  For just the sealed cabinets alone you would probably only need 1 sheet.  The OB section doesn’t really need it.

mlundy57

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #36 on: 27 Jun 2021, 05:53 pm »
No Rez does not affect volume.  It’s more effective than you think at reducing cabinet resonance.  Danny designs well-braced cabinets AND uses No Rez.  I can understand some hesitation perhaps due to the cost but after adding No Rez to several speakers including ones not by Danny, I can confirm it’s worth using.  For just the sealed cabinets alone you would probably only need 1 sheet.  The OB section doesn’t really need it.

Nor does the OB section need additional bracing since it isn't pressurized like the boxed sections are.

GaryPC

Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #37 on: 27 Jun 2021, 10:52 pm »
That is good to understand about No Rez not taking volume. I understand then that it adds mass (and maybe something else such as elasticity of that mass?) to the MDF walls which dampens excitement of the walls. I should learn about cabinet wall resonances, but it is hard to imagine such short walls resonating much?
 I am not sure if this is correct logic, but if the No Rez also does not add volume, then there would be no point to adding material to the woofer box. If there was good reason GRR would have included it in the design in the first place. For that matter I guess I should follow their expertise and get some No Rez at least for the boxes. But not before some further stiffening :D

dryan01uk

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #38 on: 2 Jul 2021, 01:04 am »
More newbie questions ....

As an update, I've placed my order for both the X-Voce and X-Statik kits.  Yah!  :thumb:

However, I'm still see-sawing on ordering the beautiful CNC kits as well, trying to source them locally or building the cabinets myself  :o

As we seem to be going through a bit of a kitchen renovation boom here in Melbourne, getting anyone interested in making some CNC cut cabinets for me is proving to be 'challenging' ..... and I actually do fancy the idea of having a go at building them myself, although with fingers that are all thumbs, it could be an 'interesting' experience.

With that said, I've always read that the tweeter should ideally be at ear height relative to the listening position, for the best experience.  Therefore, as the X-Voce is a centre channel speaker, typically sitting below the TV, is there any benefit to be had from tilting the frame to better 'aim' the tweeter at ear-height?    If I'm going to build an X-Voce cabinet, I could cut the end sections and front baffle to build in a slight incline (~10deg).

Any one have any thoughts or direct experience?  Maybe the vertical axis response is so good, that this is unnecessary over-kill, but I figured I would ask.

Also, from a woofer wiring point of view, is there any benefit to be had from placing the XO behind the middle open baffle area of the X-Voce, as all the wiring runs would then be of equal length (I've assumed they are wired in parallel)?

D

Vince in TX

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #39 on: 2 Jul 2021, 01:11 am »
...
With that said, I've always read that the tweeter should ideally be at ear height relative to the listening position, for the best experience.  Therefore, as the X-Voce is a centre channel speaker, typically sitting below the TV, is there any benefit to be had from tilting the frame to better 'aim' the tweeter at ear-height?    If I'm going to build an X-Voce cabinet, I could cut the end sections and front baffle to build in a slight incline (~10deg).

...

That’s exactly what I’m doing with mine, tilting it up so that it not only hits my ear level, but the ear level of the back row which is on a 12” riser.