New member - questions on X-Voce centre

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dryan01uk

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New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« on: 4 Jun 2021, 01:11 am »
Hi all.  Newbie from Australia here.

I'm planning to progressively upgrade my system - I have an eclectic taste in music that started in vinyl and moved to digital, enjoy HT and use console gaming as another form of relaxation.... and I'm 50+ yrs old (pushing 60, but hey, still young at heart, I suspect like most of us).

Anyway, having recently moved into a new home, I'm keen to explore top-end DIY speaker systems and the GR 'stuff' from Danny caught my eye, after watching some of the YouTube content available.

I have an existing mix of Q-Acoustics 3050i floor standers and 3090c centre, KEF sealed sub and Klipsch ATMOS speakers, that works and integrates well enough to my ear - both across stereo and multi-channel sessions. 

My plan, as time and funds allow is to :

1. replace my centre with an X-Voce kit
2. replace L&R with X-statik kit
3. replace the sub with one / two servo sub kit 4
4. either integrating my existing speakers as surrounds

My new listening room is 6.0m (L) x 4.0m (W)  X 2.5m (H) or 19.6' x 13.1' x 8.2' in imperial - so a reasonable size.  Lots of glass and a double door on one side, so needing some room work.

Now, to my questions, as I don't see much love in the forums or elsewhere for the X-Voce (lots of great builds on the X-statik and servo subs which are awesome and very inspirational):

A - what size is the X-Voce - The GR web-site doesn't have much info?
B - As they are semi OB - I assume siting 3' off the wall is ideal?
C - what are people's experience with the sound?
D - Any tips to improve the experience?
 E -Assuming I get the CNC kit, how easy is it to fit a speaker grill - I want to prevent kids and grand-kids pushing in the tweeter domes like I've experienced before......  I'd assume not much more difficult that doing the same to X-statik and subs?
F - will my progressive upgrade plan work - if I use something like Audyssey EQ XT, will it help balance the system as I move through my plan or should I start with the X-Statik kits?

Hope you can help provide some guidance.  I'm looking forward to sharing my experience over the next few years.

dryan01uk

E-Zee

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #1 on: 4 Jun 2021, 06:26 am »
A. Approx 8.5 tall x 36 wide x 14.5 deep.
B. Semi OB is fair description, similar to the X-Statics. You have open mid/tweeter/mid in center and sealed woofers on each end.
C. I dont own these personally so others will be more qualified to give details.  My experience with them is through close family friends in Oklahoma that use X-Voce together with X-Statics, and a single medium-tier ported sub.  It is a great pairing.  The X-statics are well praised and for good reason but I do think the X-Voce deserves much more positive attention than it gets.  Great center channel at a great price.
D. Placement of course, room setup, some gains to be had from moderate crossover upgrades, tube connectors.
E. Grills are fairly simple for the mentioned designs.  You have flat square front baffles, make thin frames and wrap with an acoustic cloth, attach with magnets, or clips, or pins.
F.  Audyssey EQ will help but I wouldn't be so concerned with perfect balance through the transition process.  If your woodworking skills are going to grow and improve throughout the planned builds than I'd suggest starting first with the X-Voce kit first it will be easier build and what you learn there will help you be more successful with the X-Statics.

Your making some good choices.  Good luck with it all.

- Elon

ezeescrossovers.com

dryan01uk

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #2 on: 4 Jun 2021, 06:51 am »
Thanks for the info Elon.  Spot on advice.

I'll do some measurements and check room layout.  It looks like it will be a good fit.  I like the note about developing my wood working skills - its one of the reasons I selected the X-Voce as a starting point.  I was also going to jump to the upgraded x-over.  If I'm shipping a kit half-way around the world, I may as well avoid doing it twice chasing an upgrade later!

D

corndog71

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #3 on: 4 Jun 2021, 05:18 pm »


I had this set up a few years ago.  It's a great combo and I definitely recommend it.  The only thing I would advise is that you get the full upgrade with No Rez and Sonicaps. 
I also used X-Omnis as my rear surrounds which worked very well.

Vince in TX

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #4 on: 4 Jun 2021, 08:32 pm »
It sounds like your setup will be similar to mine.   I picked up my X-Voce and my X-Static speakers second-hand, and I am in the process of assembling a pair of Servo Sub 4 kits for my home theater.   I thought about using my existing Klipsch surrounds, but I decided to leave them in the game room and go all-in with Danny's stuff.   He's sending me quad A/V-1RS speakers for the surrounds once he gets all of the components together.   I'm using Bowers & Wilkins CCM684s for the ceiling Atmos speakers.












dryan01uk

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #5 on: 5 Jun 2021, 12:22 am »
They are both great looking setups - I love how you've finished the speakers.

Looks like both set-ups are way ahead on the path to where I want to be.   Ah well.  A journey of a thousand miles always starts with the first step.

Now to send Danny an email and start the fun discussion on shipping....

Thank you for the great info.  I'm sure to have more questions as I progress.

D

Theronbo

Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #6 on: 6 Jun 2021, 07:44 pm »
X-Statics & x-Voce need room to breath...

Not to lecture... (so I will).

I’d say both Corndog & Vince...

1. Speakers are way to close to the wall...

2. Should be spaced in the room... roughly dividing the room in thirds...

You want to position them to hit the ‘Sweet Spot’ - where suddenly the music just fills the room...

I did this with my LR X-Statics... great for music... but still had my X-Voce just 6” off the wall... Danny saw a photo I posted of my rig & made the comment “move it out”... I did... thinking it wouldn’t make much difference.... it did... sounds much better.

My sister was just visiting yesterday... asked me “why are your speakers so far out into the room?”

I bit my tongue, just said “they sound better that way.”

There’s a YouTube video dedicated to just finding the sweet spot.... involves putting grid on you floor every foot... moving & testing/listening. 

I just used the rule of thumb... 1/3 east west & 1/5 north & south with a minimum 3’ off the back wall ...


Mine are all 5.5’ in a 20’ deep room (north south) & 10’ separation east west 30’ wide. 600 sqft room with 12’ ceiling.

dryan01uk

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #7 on: 6 Jun 2021, 10:06 pm »
Thanks for the info, Theronbo.

I saw you photos and Danny’s comment elsewhere on the forum and was wondering how you got on.

For HT, I believe it’s normal to recommend putting the TV in line with the front wall of baffles.  How well does it work with the TV hung on the wall behind?

Fortunately, I’ve got plenty of room to pull the speakers off the wall - although I was also planning to use acoustic panels on the walls to tighten up any resonance effects.... that’s a long way down the line from here, though.

Over the weekend, I’ve ‘swamped’ Danny with emails (ok, three emails), so I’ve started my journey.

In good ol’ Australia, I can’t get 3/4 inch MDF (19.05mm) - only 18mm or 25mm.  I’m favouring 25mm and getting a local CNC mob to cut the various panels for me.  Does anyone have any experience using thicker MDF for cabinets and the impact this might have on the sound?  I’d want to keep the internal volume close to the design, but there will be some minor changes.

D

mlundy57

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #8 on: 6 Jun 2021, 10:22 pm »
TV on wall works fine. I used a down and out style mount designed for TVs that are mounted over a fireplace and mounted the TV high enough up that when pushed back against the wall the top of the TV almost touches the ceiling. This lets me position the TV at a normal height when watching movies (though it is still well behind the speakers) yet get it up and mostly out f the way when listening to music.

dryan01uk

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #9 on: 7 Jun 2021, 12:38 am »
Thanks mlundy57.

I've been considering a similar mount but have some concerns about the weight / moment arm loading when mounting a large flat screen TV.  The mounting frame is only going to be screwed into wooden wall studs in an internal dry-wall.  I may just go with a tilt assembly.

Not a big issue yet - got to get the new speakers first.

D

corndog71

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #10 on: 7 Jun 2021, 03:23 am »
That was my old apartment.  The baffles were at least 3’ away from the front wall.  I could’ve pulled them out further but just never did.  Now I’m in a smaller apartment and have no room for home theater.  Just 2.1 for now but a servo sub and the Statiks still sound great!  I’m looking at building a house in the next couple of years when hopefully the market is more sane.

dryan01uk

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #11 on: 7 Jun 2021, 04:25 am »
Sounds like the housing market in USA is as crazy as it is here in Australia.  I keep hearing about the daily increase in house prices and agree - the market is not sane!

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #12 on: 7 Jun 2021, 06:49 pm »
Ye, I'm hearing all kinds of stories where people are buying houses way over asking price.

Not to mention the crazy prices of wood & construction materials.

Vince in TX

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #13 on: 8 Jun 2021, 01:41 pm »
X-Statics & x-Voce need room to breath...

Not to lecture... (so I will).

I’d say both Corndog & Vince...

1. Speakers are way to close to the wall...

2. Should be spaced in the room... roughly dividing the room in thirds...

You want to position them to hit the ‘Sweet Spot’ - where suddenly the music just fills the room...

I did this with my LR X-Statics... great for music... but still had my X-Voce just 6” off the wall... Danny saw a photo I posted of my rig & made the comment “move it out”... I did... thinking it wouldn’t make much difference.... it did... sounds much better.

My sister was just visiting yesterday... asked me “why are your speakers so far out into the room?”

I bit my tongue, just said “they sound better that way.”

There’s a YouTube video dedicated to just finding the sweet spot.... involves putting grid on you floor every foot... moving & testing/listening. 

I just used the rule of thumb... 1/3 east west & 1/5 north & south with a minimum 3’ off the back wall ...


Mine are all 5.5’ in a 20’ deep room (north south) & 10’ separation east west 30’ wide. 600 sqft room with 12’ ceiling.

Mine are actually downstairs sitting in front of my fireplace, waiting for the carpet to get installed into the theater room this Friday.   I've engineered the room layout where there will be a minimum of three feet to the baffle for all speakers on the front channels (and two feet from the side walls).   I'll have acoustic treatments behind them.

But this is good stuff!   Thanks for sharing.    :thumb:

Vince in TX

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #14 on: 8 Jun 2021, 01:51 pm »
Sounds like the housing market in USA is as crazy as it is here in Australia.  I keep hearing about the daily increase in house prices and agree - the market is not sane!

The house next door to us sold three to four years ago for $380,000.00.   Last week, that same house just sold for $440,000.00.   I have no doubt every dime I just put into my house building my theater room in the attic will come right back to me if I were to ever sell it.   And even with the increased material costs, it was significantly cheaper to build a room than to buy a larger house.   Crazy times.

hawkeyejw

Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #15 on: 8 Jun 2021, 04:09 pm »
Lots of good info in here so far. I won’t repeat but just for reference, my Voce is slightly short of the ideal 3’ minimum from the front wall but it still sounds great. I have no doubt there’s improvement possible but coming from a Paradigm cc-370 it was a huge leap in clarity and dynamics.

Tyson

Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #16 on: 8 Jun 2021, 04:15 pm »
The house next door to us sold three to four years ago for $380,000.00.   Last week, that same house just sold for $440,000.00.   I have no doubt every dime I just put into my house building my theater room in the attic will come right back to me if I were to ever sell it.   And even with the increased material costs, it was significantly cheaper to build a room than to buy a larger house.   Crazy times.

It's even crazier here in Denver. 
« Last Edit: 9 Jun 2021, 02:36 am by Tyson »

OrangeAgent

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #17 on: 8 Jun 2021, 04:16 pm »
Ive been meaning to ask this and thought it best to do so here rather than make a new thread.

The CNC flat pack for the X-Voce on the GR website appears to have a front baffle that is wider for the sealed sections than the open-baffle section. Looking at the supplied plans, the front baffle is to be one consistent width from end to end. Does it matter? Or more directly, what is the correct layout?

I need to convert the Spanish/metric instructions into a format that will work for me. Planning on using kreg pocket screws to secure sides/top of sealed chambers, then rabbiting the backs and attaching that way.

mlundy57

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #18 on: 8 Jun 2021, 06:02 pm »
Thanks mlundy57.

I've been considering a similar mount but have some concerns about the weight / moment arm loading when mounting a large flat screen TV.  The mounting frame is only going to be screwed into wooden wall studs in an internal dry-wall.  I may just go with a tilt assembly.

Not a big issue yet - got to get the new speakers first.

D

Mine is a 55" LCD flatscreen on studs. In my case there was a window where I wanted to mount the TV so I built a 2x4 stud frame inside the window opening and attached the mount to the frame.




dryan01uk

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Re: New member - questions on X-Voce centre
« Reply #19 on: 8 Jun 2021, 10:38 pm »
LOL.  Where else would you find a discussion on great audio and house prices all in the same thread.  :popcorn:  Awesome.

As an aside, the median house price in Melbourne broke the $1M AUD at the beginning of the year due, in part, to government economic stimulus and it's all over the local media this week about a house in an 'up town area' breaking $33M AUD  - madness  :duh:
Quote
Melbourne is the capital city of Victoria with a population of over 4.8 million which accounts for 19.05% of national population. 

A lot of money for a small country ($1M AUD is about $800K USD).

@mlundy57 - those are some beautiful speakers - I love how you have integrated the design between the various components.

@Vince - what is the idea behind placing no-rez (I assume?) around the x-over on the X-Voce?

Does anyone have thoughts on my previous question of using 25mm (~1 inch) thick MDF for the cabinets, with 18mm for the internal baffles?

Thanks for all the notes - I'm learning a lot.  Just waiting for a few quotes back from Danny before hopefully placing an order - I guess inventory holding is a major head-ache for everyone presently.

D