AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: cacophony777 on 1 Aug 2010, 04:44 am
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I just got back from the CA Audio Show and thought I'd post a few pictures. I had a great time, and especially enjoyed meeting Jim and hearing the exceptional SoundScape 10 (the Songtower RT wasn't too shabby either :wink:)
I was a bit too rushed to do critical listening in most of the other rooms, but it was still lots of fun to hear so many different speakers.
(http://webspace.lenscritic.com/ca_audioshow/cashow1.jpg)
(http://webspace.lenscritic.com/ca_audioshow/cashow2.jpg)
(http://webspace.lenscritic.com/ca_audioshow/cashow3.jpg)
(http://webspace.lenscritic.com/ca_audioshow/cashow4.jpg)
(http://webspace.lenscritic.com/ca_audioshow/cashow5.jpg)
(http://webspace.lenscritic.com/ca_audioshow/cashow6.jpg)
(http://webspace.lenscritic.com/ca_audioshow/cashow7.jpg)
(http://webspace.lenscritic.com/ca_audioshow/cashow8.jpg)
(http://webspace.lenscritic.com/ca_audioshow/cashow9.jpg)
(http://webspace.lenscritic.com/ca_audioshow/cashow10.jpg)
(http://webspace.lenscritic.com/ca_audioshow/cashow11.jpg)
(http://webspace.lenscritic.com/ca_audioshow/cashow12.jpg)
(http://webspace.lenscritic.com/ca_audioshow/cashow13.jpg)
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Thanks for the great photos! :thumb:
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Thanks for the great photos! :thumb:
Ditto!
John
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(http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/rich-tehrani/uploads/thanks.jpg).... :thumb:
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I almost died when I saw the pictures of those SoundScapes. Wow! Can't wait for mine to be finished. :drool:
Fantastic pictures, thanks for sharing.
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Are those ST's already spoken for? Maybe Jim wants to let them go as a demo pair? Just asking???? :)
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Are those ST's already spoken for? Maybe Jim wants to let them go as a demo pair? Just asking???? :)
Those may be his personal pair from his living room.
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Thanks for the great photos! :thumb:
+2
JD
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Those may be his personal pair from his living room.
Yeah, both the Songtower and Soundscape are Jim's personal pair.
Jim's a lucky man :D
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Yeah, both the Songtower and Soundscape are Jim's personal pair.
Jim's a lucky man :D
I guess Jim and I have similar taste in finishes as I believe those are the best looking speakers I've seen yet in this circle. Fitting that they belong to Mr. Salk himself.
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Both speakers looked fantastic.
Jim mentioned to me the Soundscape finish takes a week to hand rub...and results looked it :thumb:
John
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Did they say which AVA amp the SoundScapes were hooked up to.
Sorry if I missed it.
Regards,
Ken
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Did they say which AVA amp the SoundScapes were hooked up to.
Sorry if I missed it.
Regards,
Ken
The one pictured above, with the Transporter on it.
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The one pictured above, with the Transporter on it.
That is the Double Ultra+ 550 (almost certainly). Jim and Dennis brought the same equipment to the D.C. Audiofest and they had the 550 there too. They were running the Songtowers with the Ultravalve and the Soundscapes with the 550.
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Nice. Nice. Nice. :thumb:
If Salks designs were any boutique brand, we'd be looking at $40K a pair speakers easily. That is a LOT of elegance and performance for the money! AVA as well. No baloney, just performance!
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Another viewpoint on the Salk/AVA room from Stereophile:
http://blog.stereophile.com/cas2010/salk_with_van_alstine/
I know from past shows at RMAF that I never felt that what you heard there was close to what the Salk speakers could produce once they were in your home. I know that sounds like a "duh" type statement, but what I am driving at is that the gap between what I heard at shows vs a home environment was larger for the Salk speakers than some other brands.
To perspective buyers, the Salk speakers (I own five SongTowers and used to own a pair of HT3's) can produce wonderful sound and are an excellent value. Take a look at what owners have said about them and don't let any one show commentary totally drive your thoughts or judgement.
George
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Zybar, ..... +1
Bob
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I think it's tough to make critical assessments in these types of situations (too many variables and distractions).
But on that note I thought that the Songtowers sounded way better than these $80k Acapella High Violoncello II speakers:
http://blog.stereophile.com/cas2010/acapella_and_more_from_loggie_audio_aaudio_imports/
I'm not joking here. They played a version of Fever that sounded flat and lifeless.
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Those pics are awesome! Thank you, cacophony777
Another viewpoint on the Salk/AVA room from Stereophile:
http://blog.stereophile.com/cas2010/salk_with_van_alstine/
I know from past shows at RMAF that I never felt that what you heard there was close to what the Salk speakers could produce once they were in your home. I know that sounds like a "duh" type statement, but what I am driving at is that the gap between what I heard at shows vs a home environment was larger for the Salk speakers than some other brands.
To perspective buyers, the Salk speakers (I own five SongTowers and used to own a pair of HT3's) can produce wonderful sound and are an excellent value. Take a look at what owners have said about them and don't let any one show commentary totally drive your thoughts or judgement.
George
George,
Reading that article gives me the impression the Stereophile rep was knocking the AVA electronics. Anyone else get that vibe?
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That was my take.
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Those pics are awesome! Thank you, cacophony777
George,
Reading that article gives me the impression the Stereophile rep was knocking the AVA electronics. Anyone else get that vibe?
I think he was definitely knocking the choice of using a Denon cd player as the source.
George
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Reading that article gives me the impression the Stereophile rep was knocking the AVA electronics. Anyone else get that vibe?
I am sticking my neck out here...I would like to see the top of the line tube preamp partnered with the top of the line AVA amp at RMAF. I sat in the SALK room and IMHO believe the electronics may have been holding the speakers back. Some of the rooms at the show sounded flat, some sounded great, IMO.
I have heard HT1-TLs, HT2-TLs, HT3's and Songtowers in systems that shined.
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I am sticking my neck out here...I would like to see the top of the line tube preamp partnered with the top of the line AVA amp at RMAF. I sat in the SALK room and IMHO believe the electronics may have been holding the speakers back. Some of the rooms at the show sounded flat, some sounded great, IMO.
I have heard HT1-TLs, HT2-TLs, HT3's and Songtowers in systems that shined.
Could these differences be explained by room/speaker interactions, speaker positioning, source material chosen, or ... mood/expectations? :D
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George,
Reading that article gives me the impression the Stereophile rep was knocking the AVA electronics. Anyone else get that vibe?
I guess you could infer it was just the CD player he was knocking, but to me it reads like he felt it was the electronics.
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I am sticking my neck out here...I would like to see the top of the line tube preamp partnered with the top of the line AVA amp at RMAF. I sat in the SALK room and IMHO believe the electronics may have been holding the speakers back. Some of the rooms at the show sounded flat, some sounded great, IMO.
I have heard HT1-TLs, HT2-TLs, HT3's and Songtowers in systems that shined.
Did you hear both the SoundScapes and the SongTowers? If you also thought the ST sounded flat, it's hard to imagine how it could be the electronics given that they were being driven by the tube amp that got a rave in the Absolute Sound (and that's sounded great to me everytime I've heard it.) As for the lowly Denon CD--remember--there was a separate high quality DAC in line.
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I also read that in that blog, that in-between-the-lines he may have been knocking the electronics upstream from the speakers.
However, I have a completely different take on his blog…
It wasn't the upstream electronics, and it wasn't the speakers, it may have been the hotel room or the blogger's ears, but it most likely was the four pounds of wet noodles between his ears.
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Here's what he said about the Acoustic Zen (http://blog.stereophile.com/cas2010/elite_audio_systems_krell_acoustic_zen_and_clearaudio/):
"Things were challenged in the bass department, however. When I revisited the room on the last day of the show ... Robert had changed the jumpers on the speakers. Bass in the extremely challenging room was certainly better, but the tweeter had less sparkle."
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I also read that in that blog, that in-between-the-lines he may have been knocking the electronics upstream from the speakers.
However, I have a completely different take on his blog…
It wasn't the upstream electronics, and it wasn't the speakers, it may have been the hotel room or the blogger's ears, but it most likely was the four pounds of wet noodles between his ears.
While I don't know Jason (the person who wrote the comments), I have read many of his blogs and reviews. He is articulate and has shown the ability to write informative and substantive articles. My personal opinion is that he knows his stuff. I am basing this on comparing my own thoughts and findings to his on common gear.
Jumping to attack or blame the reviewer/writer when you don't like the outcome comes across as being a "homer" or a "blind follower".
George
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While I don't know Jason (the person who wrote the comments), I have read many of his blogs and reviews. He is articulate and has shown the ability to write informative and substantive articles. My personal opinion is that he knows his stuff. I am basing this on comparing my own thoughts and findings to his on common gear.
Jumping to attack or blame the reviewer/writer when you don't like the outcome comes across as being a "homer" or a "blind follower".
George
I certainly respect your wish to avoid attacking or blaming the blog writer. It wasn't my intent to heap verbal abuse on him, and perhaps my characterization of his brains might seem harsh.
But when he appears to criticize the use of a Denon CD player when an external DAC was clearly being used, it is fair game to question his thought processes in general.
And yes, I readily admit to being an unabashed Salk fanboy :green:.
Richard
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While I don't know Jason (the person who wrote the comments), I have read many of his blogs and reviews. He is articulate and has shown the ability to write informative and substantive articles. My personal opinion is that he knows his stuff. I am basing this on comparing my own thoughts and findings to his on common gear.
Jumping to attack or blame the reviewer/writer when you don't like the outcome comes across as being a "homer" or a "blind follower".
George
I don't know Boston Beans about this dude. But I do know that he's way more into the audible implications of different jumpers and flucuations in hotel voltage levels than I am.
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Here's what he said about the Acoustic Zen (http://blog.stereophile.com/cas2010/elite_audio_systems_krell_acoustic_zen_and_clearaudio/):
"Things were challenged in the bass department, however. When I revisited the room on the last day of the show ... Robert had changed the jumpers on the speakers. Bass in the extremely challenging room was certainly better, but the tweeter had less sparkle."
For what it's worth, I really liked the sound of the Acoustic Zen speakers overall. But, I think Stereophile's assessment of the bass issues was right on. Others who I was trolling around with had the same observation about the bass. However, I cannot comment on the impact of the jumpers because I "critically listened" only on Sunday morning.
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I am sticking my neck out here...I would like to see the top of the line tube preamp partnered with the top of the line AVA amp at RMAF. I sat in the SALK room and IMHO believe the electronics may have been holding the speakers back. Some of the rooms at the show sounded flat, some sounded great, IMO.
I have heard HT1-TLs, HT2-TLs, HT3's and Songtowers in systems that shined.
In the same vein as KShep, I would also humbly suggest that an adjustment to the electronics front-end at RMAF could be warranted (can't wait to go! :) ) and I agree with KShep's observations about the Salk sound that day. At the CA show, I only heard the SS speakers in action, and did not have the opportunity to hear the STs, but I hope to do so at RMAF. I thoroughly enjoy my HT1-TLs (partnered with Blue Circle gear) and I think more could be had from the excellent (and, for me, beloved) Salk speakers.
ps - Jim, it was great meeting you, and hope to see you again soon
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Could these differences be explained by room/speaker interactions, speaker positioning, source material chosen, or ... mood/expectations? :D
Yes but not likely.
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Did you hear both the SoundScapes and the SongTowers? If you also thought the ST sounded flat, it's hard to imagine how it could be the electronics given that they were being driven by the tube amp that got a rave in the Absolute Sound (and that's sounded great to me everytime I've heard it.) As for the lowly Denon CD--remember--there was a separate high quality DAC in line.
Yes I listened to the Songtower ribbons, they sounded wonderful connected to AVA's tube preamp. Just as good as they did in my room when I owned them connected to my tube preamp.
I'm not trying to knock AVA. I am just writing what I heard.
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Snip--the above post answered some of the questions I had in this post. But I'm still not clear what is was about the SS's that suffered in comparison with the ST's. Dynamics?
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I don't know Boston Beans about this dude. But I do know that he's way more into the audible implications of different jumpers and flucuations in hotel voltage levels than I am.
While I was sitting in front of the Magico V3's on Sunday at the show I heard what I thought was a radio while a classical track was playing through the system...at the end of the song the rep mentioned that through the electrical system he is experiencing PA feedback connected to that (pointing) electrical outlet.
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While I was sitting in front of the Magico V3's on Sunday at the show I heard what I thought was a radio while a classical track was playing through the system...at the end of the song the rep mentioned that through the electrical system he is experiencing PA feedback connected to that (pointing) electrical outlet.
I enjoyed the Magico presentation, mainly because the pitch the guy gave at the start reminded me of the invention booths you see at a state fair or car show. :thumb: Man, those crossover components were HUGE!
kshep, what speakers most impressed you at the show?
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While I was sitting in front of the Magico V3's on Sunday at the show I heard what I thought was a radio while a classical track was playing through the system...at the end of the song the rep mentioned that through the electrical system he is experiencing PA feedback connected to that (pointing) electrical outlet.
Interesting. I'm not sure that's what the reviewer was referring to, but it is interesting.
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kshep, what speakers most impressed you at the show?
Magico V2. Evolution Acoustic MMMiniTwo.
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Magico V2. Evolution Acoustic MMMiniTwo.
Interesting...and different approaches on how to reproduce music.
I have spent a decent amount of time with both the V2's and the big brother to the MMMiniTwo's - the MM3's. The V2's are a very pleasurable speaker to listen to, but are severely overpriced for what they are capable of delivering.
How was the bass on the MMMini Two's? Was it capable of true full range? Any challenges or issues with driver integration?
George
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Interesting...and different approaches on how to reproduce music.
I have spent a decent amount of time with both the V2's and the big brother to the MMMiniTwo's - the MM3's. The V2's are a very pleasurable speaker to listen to, but are severely overpriced for what they are capable of delivering.
How was the bass on the MMMini Two's? Was it capable of true full range? Any challenges or issues with driver integration?
George
Yes. Two very different speakers. IMO the Two's did play low end well, in fact I sat down in the room first thing Suday morning, first to visit. And when Johnathan pressed play the integrated sub wasn't turned on, so the first minute of my demo CD played with out the sub unit playing. Johnathan jumped and said would you like the sub turned on, of course. I heard the speaker with and with out the sub playing.
Driver integration sounded great to my ear.
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Reading this thread is rather confusing. I'm rather amazed that several audiophiles can listen to the same thing and not hear the same thing! :o
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Reading this thread is rather confusing. I'm rather amazed that several audiophiles can listen to the same thing and not hear the same thing! :o
Really?
Very rarely do I see situations where everybody agrees on something.
We all hear differently and we all have different aspects of the music experience that impact us.
This is just par for the course.
George
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Reading this thread is rather confusing. I'm rather amazed that several audiophiles can listen to the same thing and not hear the same thing!
Different people listen to different things. One person may listen for clarity and another person might listen for bass response. One person might listen for dynamic range and another person might listen for image. My father went to clubs when he was young, so a speaker that had the ambiance of a night club really floated his boat. The people are not wrong. The speakers that they like aren’t bad. They just have different tastes.
Bob
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Different people listen to different things. One person may listen for clarity and another person might listen for bass response. One person might listen for dynamic range and another person might listen for image. My father went to clubs when he was young, so a speaker that had the ambiance of a night club really floated his boat. The people are not wrong. The speakers that they like aren’t bad. They just have different tastes.
Bob
Certainly true. But I would still like to get a better description from the attendee's of the SoundScape in the CA room. A PM would be fine.
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Great posts George and Bob. We could all embrace these concepts a little more...
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Words of an 'old' wise man. :D
Great posts George and Bob. We could all embrace these concepts a little more...
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Just a few quick comments on the California Audio Show...
First of all, thanks to everyone who visited our room. It was great to finally meet some of our West Coast owners in person. That is always the fun part of a show. We also had an opportunity to meet a whole lot of people who returned time and time again for another listen. Many reported that we had one of the very best sounding rooms at the show.
As for the room itself, it was the smallest room we had ever had at any show. And since I flew to this show, we didn't have the benefits of room treatments. This was a concern since I was afraid the bass from the SoundScape 10's would overwhelm the room. Fortunately, that was not the case. The dual opposed passives seemed to load the room very evenly. Many people commented that other rooms were extremely "boomy" even though many of them were playing small monitor speakers. So I felt we were extremely fortunate in this regard.
Would room treatments have improved the sound? I'm sure bass traps and acoustic panels on first reflection points would have helped quite a bit. But for a small, untreated room, I think we fared quite well.
I did notice that when the room was empty, it sounded a little on the bright side and I had to keep the volume under control. But when the room was full (which was the case most of the week-end), it was a little on the dull side. Bodies seemed to soak up the top end. But when the volume was increased, the top end returned. (This is probably what Jason from Stereophile experienced listening to his Mahler CD as he seemed much happier when the volume was increased).
I think, in the end, the SoundScapes would definitely fare better in a larger room (which we will have at RAMF). The SongTowers, on the other hand, seemed to do quite well in that room, although their placement was far from optimum (the SoundScapes were where the SongTowers should have been, but it was too hard to move the SoundScapes every time we switched speakers).
There seemed to be quite a bit more emphasis on higher-end audio at this show. People always asked what source gear we were running and seemed quite surprised that it was Redbook (standard CD) audio. They would say, "wow, if you are getting this kind of sound with this equipment, imagine how these speakers would sound with some good source gear!"
We have always demo'd our speakers with an inexpensive CD player and/or an unmodified Squeezebox (both running through AVA's latest Wofson-based DAC's) so that people would know the sound quality was related to the speakers and not mega-buck source gear. With no room treatments and gear like they were likely to have in their home, what they heard would be the minimum they could expect out of those same speakers in their home. But now we have to re-think that approach.
Quite a few people took one look at the Denon CD player and Squeezebox and decided the room was not worth spending any time in. Perceptions, it appears, are extremely important in the higher-end market. So we'll have to re-examine our approach to the gear we use at shows and at least have 24/96 gear (and perhaps a high-end turntable as well).
Even with the limitations we dealt with, the reactions we got were quite positive. The Bay Area Audio Society was impressed enough to ask me to leave the SoundScapes behind for their next meeting. Unfortunately, that was not possible. But we did agree to make a pair available to them sometime after RAMF. So they will have a chance to play with the SoundScapes under much better room conditions and with the source gear of their choosing. Stay tuned for that...
All things considered, I thought the show went quite well. We received very many extremely positive comments and were very often told our room was among the very best sounding at the show. We had a chance to meet old friends and make quite a few new ones. Now we'll just have to concentrate on RMAF and up our game a little.
- Jim
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Jim, you can do exactly what Lexicon did when they repackaged the guts from an Oppo CD player, with virtually no changes and none that could improve the sound, into a fancy box with their name on it and then charge several thousand more than what the same guts in a plainer sheetmetal would cost from Oppo. I'm sure Frank could create you a very fancy box to house whatever electronics you want, making it look like something quite expensive. :P
Paul
They would say, "wow, if you are getting this kind of sound with this equipment, imagine how these speakers would sound with some good source gear!"
Quite a few people took one look at the Denon CD player and Squeezebox and decided the room was not worth spending any time in. Perceptions, it appears, are extremely important in the higher-end market. So we'll have to re-examine our approach to the gear we use at shows and at least have 24/96 gear (and perhaps a high-end turntable as well).
- Jim
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Jim, you can do exactly what Lexicon did when they repackaged the guts from an Oppo CD player, with virtually no changes and none that could improve the sound, into a fancy box with their name on it and then charge several thousand more than what the same guts in a plainer sheetmetal would cost from Oppo. I'm sure Frank could create you a very fancy box to house whatever electronics you want, making it look like something quite expensive. :P
Paul
The plan is good. And Jim can even use the MurphyBlasterProductions Moniker if he would like. Dripping with prestige.
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Jim,
Well said sir. It's unfortunate that it has to go down like that, but unfortunately the Industry big dogs influence the things consumers expect. At least we all know where your roots are, and we appreciate your honesty.
Jim, you can do exactly what Lexicon did when they repackaged the guts from an Oppo CD player, with virtually no changes and none that could improve the sound, into a fancy box with their name on it and then charge several thousand more than what the same guts in a plainer sheetmetal would cost from Oppo. I'm sure Frank could create you a very fancy box to house whatever electronics you want, making it look like something quite expensive. :P
Paul
LOL - that's awesome! Too funny. :D
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A matching veneered cabinet for the CDP with NO name on it. Keep them guessing.
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Might I ask if Frank can use his new AvaStar or T8 preamp gear and FetValve amp to run the SoundScapes at RMAF? I think a little tube action in conjunction with the SS's will blow people's minds.
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A matching veneered cabinet for the CDP with NO name on it. Keep them guessing.
+1. Call it the Crotch CDP
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Here's what he said about the Acoustic Zen (http://blog.stereophile.com/cas2010/elite_audio_systems_krell_acoustic_zen_and_clearaudio/):
"Things were challenged in the bass department, however. When I revisited the room on the last day of the show ... Robert had changed the jumpers on the speakers. Bass in the extremely challenging room was certainly better, but the tweeter had less sparkle."
Boy that says it all :D
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We have always demo'd our speakers with an inexpensive CD player and/or an unmodified Squeezebox (both running through AVA's latest Wofson-based DAC's) so that people would know the sound quality was related to the speakers and not mega-buck source gear. With no room treatments and gear like they were likely to have in their home, what they heard would be the minimum they could expect out of those same speakers in their home. But now we have to re-think that approach.
- Jim
I agree that re-thinking that approach makes sense when showing the SoundScapes Jim. People shopping for $10K plus speakers probably aren't interested in hearing inexpensive or reasonably priced electronics - no matter how the gear actually sounds.
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Well we can always have Jim simply make great looking wood boxes for our electronics for the shows, faceplates and knobs and all, and simply move the decimal point over one place for them for the prices, maybe even furnish genuine walnut power cords too, and more the decimal point over another point.
I simply will not go into business screwing stupid rich people just because they are rich and stupid.
Regards,
Frank Van Alstine
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Jim,
Well said sir. It's unfortunate that it has to go down like that, but unfortunately the Industry big dogs influence the things consumers expect. At least we all know where your roots are, and we appreciate your honesty.
LOL - that's awesome! Too funny. :D
C'mon guys...the AVA gear is good and an even better value, but let's not pretend there isn't better out there.
If the better performing gear costs more, that doesn't make it wrong or stupid.
Before I get flamed, I am not saying that cost equals performance, just that there is better equipment out there that could highlight the capabilities of the Salk SoundScapes.
George
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:lol:
"[I simply will not go into business screwing stupid rich people just because they are rich and stupid.]"
Love it, love it.....Frank!!!
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C'mon guys...the AVA gear is good and an even better value, but let's not pretend there isn't better out there.
If the better performing gear costs more, that doesn't make it wrong or stupid.
Before I get flamed, I am not saying that cost equals performance, just that there is better equipment out there that could highlight the capabilities of the Salk SoundScapes.
George
Agreed. There's lots of good gear out there and if having some more upper-end stuff will get more people into the room and allow them to hear Jim's awesome speakers, then I think it's worth while.
At the end of the day, it's getting more people to actually hear the speakers instead of walking away giving sappy faces because the electronics weren't all bright and shiny, or recognizable. Jim's speakers deserve to be heard, and that's what they are there at the shows for. We all know Frank has quality stuff, but a little change doesn't hurt either.
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Quite a few people took one look at the Denon CD player and Squeezebox and decided the room was not worth spending any time in. Perceptions, it appears, are extremely important in the higher-end market. So we'll have to re-examine our approach to the gear we use at shows and at least have 24/96 gear (and perhaps a high-end turntable as well).
That's frustrating. Do these types of people want to see an expensive source they're familiar with, or will they be equally satisfied with something expensive that they've never heard of?
If it's the latter, Jim can start a non-profit under the name Ecostica, and charge $15k for his "audiophile" transport (he can use this transport at audio shows). If anybody wants to buy it, all profit will go to charity.
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C'mon guys...the AVA gear is good and an even better value, but let's not pretend there isn't better out there.
George
Better looking maybe. Or maybe different.
Jim, if you decide to "upgrade" electronics and add a turntable don't be suprised when they scoff at your power supply, interconnects, speaker wire "they're just laying there on the floor!", and any number of magical necessities. If you become like them you become them.
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I think its reasonable to use the same equipment (including the same sources) at shows that you designed them with. If I remember correctly the design, especially the midrange, on the SoundScapes was changed a number of times based on extended listening sessions using AVA equipment and digital sources.
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I agree with Zybar. Jim your source is very important. Whatever you lose upstream your speakers will never bring back. Just my 2 cents!
That is your flagship product and should be showcased with higher end gear. AVA gear is very good for the money, but there are better sounding components out there.
Joe
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All things considered, I thought the show went quite well. We received very many extremely positive comments and were very often told our room was among the very best sounding at the show. We had a chance to meet old friends and make quite a few new ones. Now we'll just have to concentrate on RMAF and up our game a little.
- Jim
It was great to meet you Jim. The Salk room was one of the best sounding at the show. See you at RMAF.
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I simply will not go into business screwing stupid rich people just because they are rich and stupid.
Regards,
Frank Van Alstine
Sure Frank, you can say that because you know that Dave Wilson already beat you to it. :o :D
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Sure Frank, you can say that because you know that Dave Wilson already beat you to it. :o :D
HAHA! :lol:
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Jim,
Why not just get a high end transport, some non-outrageously priced cables (for a while Frank liked Kimber Kable,) a decent TT and be done with it?
No sense in going overboard here.
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I had never heard any of Jim and Dennis's speakers before the show but I've been secretely reading this forum for some time. I absolutely loved the SoundScapes fed through the AVA gear and Jim was a pleasure to meet. If I were in the market to buy a speaker, regardless of cost, I wouldn't think twice about choosing them.
The sound was among the top 3 of the show - easily beating out speakers costing FAR more - and the finish quality was easily the finest I've ever seen on a loudspeaker. I went into the Salk room over and over for the two days of the show because it was one of my favorite systems. As a general rule, I never look or ask about prices on any systems I listen to until I have had a chance to soak the sound in for a while. It's hard to remain objective when you start looking at prices. Sometimes when you hear prices after hearing a system you just have to laugh to yourself and know that price doesn't guarantee performance. With the SoundScapes, I was definitely laughing alot more when I went and heard speakers that cost 10x as much but didn't impress me.
I wish the same could be said about the Denon CD player. Jim played a CD for me that I'm pretty familiar with and it sounded just plain bad. Going back to the squeezebox, the terrific sound returned. I'm definitely not into source gear - anything costing over $2,000-$3,000 is a ripoff as far as I'm concerned - but there was a noticable decrease in sound quality when switching to the Denon. I know people will assume I'm basing my judgement on the fact I expected it to sound bad but I literally never even looked at the source equipment being used while listening to the speakers. I only looked at the player after the CD started and there was a signifcant amount of grunge to the sound. I didnt even know he was using a Squeezebox until I asked about 10 minutes into the demo. Anyway, count this as a vote for getting an upgraded transport for the next show. There were a LOT of people carrying vinyl around as well and having a turntable will certainly attract more people to the room.
Other than that minor quibble, I was thoroughly impressed with the Salk room. I've already raved about it to anyone that would listen to me at the show and to my friends.
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I think it would be interesting to have three set-ups at a show:
1) inexpensive AVR & mid line CD player or squeezebox (no mods) driving base model SongTowers, or SongBirds;
2) AVA gear (amps, DAC, and pre) driving HT2-TL's
3) some fancy high-end gear driving the SoundScapes.
Three different scales to suit most everybody's wallet 8)
If someone wanted to hear something spendy driving Jim's intro speakers it could be done, as well as any other combo...
I'm guessing there would be a lot of people returning to the room to see if they could hear the difference when gear was swapped around. And I have no doubt that all three would sound good.
just my 2 cents,
PS- cacophony777- great pics by the way!
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I think it would be interesting to have three set-ups at a show:
1) inexpensive AVR & mid line CD player or squeezebox (no mods) driving base model SongTowers, or SongBirds;
2) AVA gear (amps, DAC, and pre) driving HT2-TL's
3) some fancy high-end gear driving the SoundScapes.
Three different scales to suit most everybody's wallet 8)
If someone wanted to hear something spendy driving Jim's intro speakers it could be done, as well as any other combo...
I'm guessing there would be a lot of people returning to the room to see if they could hear the difference when gear was swapped around. And I have no doubt that all three would sound good.
just my 2 cents,
PS- cacophony777- great pics by the way!
110% agree with this. Maybe a something like an Oppo or Cambridge CD as they are a pretty good value/price players
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I think it would be interesting to have three set-ups at a show:
1) inexpensive AVR & mid line CD player or squeezebox (no mods) driving base model SongTowers, or SongBirds;
2) AVA gear (amps, DAC, and pre) driving HT2-TL's
3) some fancy high-end gear driving the SoundScapes.
Three different scales to suit most everybody's wallet 8)
If someone wanted to hear something spendy driving Jim's intro speakers it could be done, as well as any other combo...
I'm guessing there would be a lot of people returning to the room to see if they could hear the difference when gear was swapped around. And I have no doubt that all three would sound good.
just my 2 cents,
Sure Funk.
As long you're going to haul all that gear around for Jim, throw in a reel-to-reel and a turntable too.
No prob! :wink:
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Sure Funk.
As long you're going to haul all that gear around for Jim, throw in a reel-to-reel and a turntable too.
No prob! :wink:
:lol: well, yeah... I guess that is something to consider... but I gotta believe that there are some companies out there that would be willing to ship some gear on their dime to be demoed with Salk.
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I think it would be interesting to have three set-ups at a show:
1) inexpensive AVR & mid line CD player or squeezebox (no mods) driving base model SongTowers, or SongBirds;
2) AVA gear (amps, DAC, and pre) driving HT2-TL's
3) some fancy high-end gear driving the SoundScapes.
Three different scales to suit most everybody's wallet 8)
If someone wanted to hear something spendy driving Jim's intro speakers it could be done, as well as any other combo...
I'm guessing there would be a lot of people returning to the room to see if they could hear the difference when gear was swapped around. And I have no doubt that all three would sound good.
just my 2 cents,
PS- cacophony777- great pics by the way!
Fantastic idea! I'd love to hear the SoundsScapes power by dual solid state monoblocks and a nice tube preamplifier. Audio Research, AVA or Conrad Johnson for preamps and Parasound JC1's for amps come to mind. :)
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Well, on thing to keep in mind is that, at RMAF, we will be in a small room and a slightly larger toom. The larger room will bet the soundscapes. Perhaps the smaller room will too.
In the past, we have tended to take quite a few pairs of speakers. And the room quickly fills up. It is difficult to stage more than one pair, much less three or four. So I am thinking of the SongTowers and perhaps the HT2-TL's. And that is probably more than we probably should take.
I need some advice. As far as a higher rez player, do you think the Oppo BD83 would be OK?
- Jim
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I wish the same could be said about the Denon CD player. Jim played a CD for me that I'm pretty familiar with and it sounded just plain bad. Going back to the squeezebox, the terrific sound returned. I'm definitely not into source gear - anything costing over $2,000-$3,000 is a ripoff as far as I'm concerned - but there was a noticable decrease in sound quality when switching to the Denon.
Welcome to AC Brian.
Was the Denon's output going straight to the preamp or to a an external DAC?
Was the Squeezebox output going straight to the preamp or to an external DAC?
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If you're trying to impress snobby audiophools, you might as well get the Lexicon clone of that Oppo (or maybe it's Oppo's SE version) as it has the exact same guts! :wink:
Paul
Edit: In case anyone is interested, in the March issue of Stereophile, on pages 43-46, Kalman Rubinson reviews both the Oppo BDP-83SE ($899) and Lexicon's repackage of it, the BD-30 ($3499). He heard virtually no distinguishble differences and upon removing their covers, saw identical circuit boards with identical components. Lexicon's primary reason for why they felt entirely justified with a selling price ~4 times that of the Oppo was, "..what differentiates our player from the Oppo and other off-the-shelf products is the integration, support and warranty". Hmmm, I guess sounding or performing better isn't important?
Paul
Well, on thing to keep in mind is that, at RMAF, we will be in a small room and a slightly larger toom. The larger room will bet the soundscapes. Perhaps the smaller room will too.
In the past, we have tended to take quite a few pairs of speakers. And the room quickly fills up. It is difficult to stage more than one pair, much less three or four. So I am thinking of the SongTowers and perhaps the HT2-TL's. And that is probably more than we probably should take.
I need some advice. As far as a higher rez player, do you think the Oppo BD83 would be OK?
- Jim
-
Well, on thing to keep in mind is that, at RMAF, we will be in a small room and a slightly larger toom. The larger room will bet the soundscapes. Perhaps the smaller room will too.
In the past, we have tended to take quite a few pairs of speakers. And the room quickly fills up. It is difficult to stage more than one pair, much less three or four. So I am thinking of the SongTowers and perhaps the HT2-TL's. And that is probably more than we probably should take.
I need some advice. As far as a higher rez player, do you think the Oppo BD83 would be OK?
- Jim
Jim,
Why not contact Dan Wright and try to pick up a Modwright Transporter?
This produces excellent sonics and would be plug and play for your setup since you are already used to using a SqueezeBox.
While there are better digital front ends, I believe this would be a big step forward for you.
George
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If you're trying to impress snobby audiophools, you might as well get the Lexicon clone of that Oppo (or maybe it's Oppo's SE version) as it has the exact same guts! :wink:
Paul
Paul,
In terms of impressing the snobby audiophools...Jim has somewhat already lost that battle regardless of how the Sound Scapes sound. The fact that the Sound Scapes might outperform more expensive speakers won't necessarily sway most of the audiophools from going with the well established name brand. That said, why not use gear that allows the Sound Scapes to show off all that they are capable of?
George
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First of all, we pay half the cost of the show displays we share with Jim Salk and neither of us are paying to display other brands of equipment. Do you want me to ask Jim to allow me to bring in some "really good" B&W Diamond speakers or similar to display against the Salks? My clients are not whining that we are not using good enough speakers at our show displays.
Neither Jim or I are into audiosnob marketing. The Soundscapes were designed using AVA electronics, there is no good reason to expect them to perform better on grossly overpriced audio salon brands of electronics.
Regarding using a "hi end" CD transport (audiophlake nonsense of course), a multi purpose transport would not hurt anything, but it would be slower to load than a purpose designed CD player only, kind of a pain for demo purposes.
The Songtowers and AVA Ultravalve got about as good a review from TAS as any products ever has, both designed without magic capacitors, wonder wires, mung shu dots, welding cable wires, or any other overpriced voodoo that suckers keep throwing their money away on.
The point is we are both trying to demonstrate to show buyers is that it is not necessary to blow a fortune to have the very best audio there is. It appears that it is very difficult to get that message out to as many as we would like to.
We will keep on trying.
Best regards,
Frank Van Alstine
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Jim,
I'd say picking up the OPPO BDP-83 would be a great idea. It'll handle a large variety of formats and can do DVD-Audio through the digital outputs at up to 24/192, which will work nicely with Frank's Vision DAC. I'd think going anymore upscale would be a waste for your target audience (normal audio enthusiasts who forgot to win the lottery). I'd also stick with the cheaper BDP-83 over the BDP-83SE since you're showing off Frank's very, very nice DAC.
Over in the HiRez circle, they've been playing with the Atlona HDMI De-Embedder http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-HDMI-1.3-Audio-De-Embedder-with-3D-Support.html (http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-HDMI-1.3-Audio-De-Embedder-with-3D-Support.html) which can pull an uncompressed digital stream from BluRay and send it to the Vision DAC. It's only $219, but maybe they'd like to send a demo unit.
The "audiophiles" still won't like an unmodified OPPO, but I doubt that's your audience anyhow.
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Do you want me to ask Jim to allow me to bring in some "really good" B&W Diamond speakers or similar to display against the Salks?
I realize this isn't a serious question, but to my ears the Songtower sounds much better than the $8,000 B&W 804 Diamond. I've also heard the 805 Diamond quite extensively, and while I prefer it to the 804 Diamond, it's also not in the same league as the Songtower, IMO.
So you're not missing out by demoing your gear exclusively with Salk stuff, Frank :wink:
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First of all, we pay half the cost of the show displays we share with Jim Salk and neither of us are paying to display other brands of equipment. Do you want me to ask Jim to allow me to bring in some "really good" B&W Diamond speakers or similar to display against the Salks? My clients are not whining that we are not using good enough speakers at our show displays.
I've heard the B&W Diamond speakers. You guys have nothing to worry about. If you don't make a CD transport, digital source or turntable since then there's really no other choice than to use equipment from another manufacturer. It might as well be something that doesn't handicap your system and gets people to sit down and have a listen instead.
Neither Jim or I are into audiosnob marketing. The Soundscapes were designed using AVA electronics, there is no good reason to expect them to perform better on grossly overpriced audio salon brands of electronics.
I had no complaints about the sound quality of the AVA electronics used at the show. I knew nothing about AVA (or any other electronics manufacturer really) but I built my own amps/preamps. There really is no reason for a component to cost more than a couple grand because it's almost impossible to spend more than a few hundred in parts. I'd be willing to guess that most $20k amplifiers cost no more than $1000-$1500 to build, most of which is spent on the case.
Regarding using a "hi end" CD transport (audiophlake nonsense of course), a multi purpose transport would not hurt anything, but it would be slower to load than a purpose designed CD player only, kind of a pain for demo purposes.
The Songtowers and AVA Ultravalve got about as good a review from TAS as any products ever has, both designed without magic capacitors, wonder wires, mung shu dots, welding cable wires, or any other overpriced voodoo that suckers keep throwing their money away on.
The point is we are both trying to demonstrate to show buyers is that it is not necessary to blow a fortune to have the very best audio there is. It appears that it is very difficult to get that message out to as many as we would like to.
The fact is your target audience is NOT the budget crowd, it's people who want the best without getting ripped off. Being part of that crowd myself, I can tell you that when I'm spending a huge chunk of my hard earned money on audio products I want to see that you take your reputation seriously. You don't need to pull stunts like using a Denon since it just gives the impression that you think that source electronics doesn't make a difference while you're selling electronics. Instead of emphasizing the value of your products, using the Denon emphasized that making a statement against the industry was more important to you than showcasing your own components for perspective buyers. While its true that there's gross overpricing in high end audio (and that's not ever going to change) it detracted from the system potential and took the emphasis away from the quality of your products. I dont think anyone here is suggesting a $10,000 CD transport but something a step-up from the mid-fi Denon would add more credibility to your room and get people who might be skeptical to sit down and listen. Once people have a chance to listen, the superb sound quality of your products vs your prices will send the message that you don't need to blow a fortune.
Like Teddy Roosevelt famously said, "Speak softly and carry a big stick"
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I listened to an Audio Research tube CD player at AliG's a couple of years ago. The sound, in that system, was amazing. It was magical when played with his Archo's. I am still today haunted by the sound of the piano on one of Dave Brubeck's songs. I didn't hear it much, but AliG says that it is a key element to the sound he was getting. The difference was not subtle at all. AliG was looking away from the speakers. When AliG heard the first cord of the piano, his head spun around so fast, I thought he might start spitting pea soup!
Bob
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I had never heard any of Jim and Dennis's speakers before the show but I've been secretely reading this forum for some time. I absolutely loved the SoundScapes fed through the AVA gear and Jim was a pleasure to meet. If I were in the market to buy a speaker, regardless of cost, I wouldn't think twice about choosing them.
The sound was among the top 3 of the show - easily beating out speakers costing FAR more - and the finish quality was easily the finest I've ever seen on a loudspeaker. I went into the Salk room over and over for the two days of the show because it was one of my favorite systems. As a general rule, I never look or ask about prices on any systems I listen to until I have had a chance to soak the sound in for a while. It's hard to remain objective when you start looking at prices. Sometimes when you hear prices after hearing a system you just have to laugh to yourself and know that price doesn't guarantee performance. With the SoundScapes, I was definitely laughing alot more when I went and heard speakers that cost 10x as much but didn't impress me.
I wish the same could be said about the Denon CD player. Jim played a CD for me that I'm pretty familiar with and it sounded just plain bad. Going back to the squeezebox, the terrific sound returned. I'm definitely not into source gear - anything costing over $2,000-$3,000 is a ripoff as far as I'm concerned - but there was a noticable decrease in sound quality when switching to the Denon. I know people will assume I'm basing my judgement on the fact I expected it to sound bad but I literally never even looked at the source equipment being used while listening to the speakers. I only looked at the player after the CD started and there was a signifcant amount of grunge to the sound. I didnt even know he was using a Squeezebox until I asked about 10 minutes into the demo. Anyway, count this as a vote for getting an upgraded transport for the next show. There were a LOT of people carrying vinyl around as well and having a turntable will certainly attract more people to the room.
Other than that minor quibble, I was thoroughly impressed with the Salk room. I've already raved about it to anyone that would listen to me at the show and to my friends.
Hi Brian,
Can you please disclose what the test CD was? I ask because often I take a test CD that I am familiar with and hear it sounding bad, thinking the equipment is at fault. Yet other CDs sound amazing. I eventually realize that my test CD is the problem.
Regards,
Ted
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Well, on thing to keep in mind is that, at RMAF, we will be in a small room and a slightly larger toom. The larger room will bet the soundscapes. Perhaps the smaller room will too.
In the past, we have tended to take quite a few pairs of speakers. And the room quickly fills up. It is difficult to stage more than one pair, much less three or four. So I am thinking of the SongTowers and perhaps the HT2-TL's. And that is probably more than we probably should take.
I need some advice. As far as a higher rez player, do you think the Oppo BD83 would be OK?
- Jim
While the Oppo is a great transport IMO, I don't think it will be approved by the "hi-fi" crowd. I was honestly thinking of something more along the lines of this:
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/M6-Series/M6CD/m6cd.asp
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I listened to an Audio Research tube CD player at AliG's a couple of years ago. The sound, in that system, was amazing. It was magical when played with his Archo's. I am still today haunted by the sound of the piano on one of Dave Brubeck's songs. I didn't hear it much, but AliG says that it is a key element to the sound he was getting. The difference was not subtle at all. AliG was looking away from the speakers. When AliG heard the first cord of the piano, his head spun around so fast, I thought he might start spitting pea soup!
Bob
Which model was it? The Audio Research CD7 I heard was the best transport I've ever heard. Period! I think it's been replaced by the CD8 now, but I'd imagine it's as good or better than the 7. If I had the budget and wasn't streaming my tunes, the CD8 would be my ultimate transport (regardless of the ridiculous price tag).
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Well, on thing to keep in mind is that, at RMAF, we will be in a small room and a slightly larger toom. The larger room will bet the soundscapes. Perhaps the smaller room will too.
In the past, we have tended to take quite a few pairs of speakers. And the room quickly fills up. It is difficult to stage more than one pair, much less three or four. So I am thinking of the SongTowers and perhaps the HT2-TL's. And that is probably more than we probably should take.
I need some advice. As far as a higher rez player, do you think the Oppo BD83 would be OK?
- Jim
Hi Jim,
The OPPO is at least a newer player that has received some good reviews. It should still be connected to the AVA DAC of course. I think the OPPO can passthrough high rez via coax based on this thread (read post #3)
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82794.0
As mathgeek97 pointed out, the Atlona box could allow for passthrough of high rez Blu-Ray audio to the DAC of you choice such as the AVA Vision DAC. Look at the model AT-HD577.
http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-HDMI-1.3-Audio-De-Embedder-with-3D-Support-and-2-x-1HDMI-switching.html
Here is the Audio Circle thread in the High Rez circle about the Atlona:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82217.0
The Atlona AT-HD577 provides 2 HDMI ins that are switchable and also had optical and coaxial outs. It may also be capable of de-embedding high rez audio without having to be connected to an HDMI viewing device. But that needs to be confirmed.
You could also consider the newer Logitech Squeezebox Touch. It is capable of playing 24/96 files that can be fed to the AVA Vision DAC via coax. In addition, you could plug in a USB device directly to the Touch and access files without the use of computer running a server. This could allow people to bring high rez material to shows for playback via USB sticks.
You could also consider a dedicated transport as it may appear more "high end".
It's too bad that Stereophile is writing such words about the experience in your room at the California show when in many cases like this not enough time is spent with the equipment and definitely not under ideal circumstances. I know these shows are hectic and there is much to hear, but he should have at least returned the next day for a second listen considering the buzz about the SoundScapes AND AVA gear pushing them! Besides, all development and demos of the SoundScapes to this day have been done with AVA gear and that is how the buzz got started.
It is one aspect of what has to be dealt with in the audio business... perception of product. Seems like a Catch 22 situation. But it is great to hear Frank chime in with his no nonsense approach to audio and supporting his stance.
I wish you great success with the SoundScapes and hope to demo them someday soon.
Regards,
Ted
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Ted, Nuance, et. al. ...
Thanks for the input.
I already ordered a Touch and will be streaming 24/96 at RMAF. No problem there (I'll probably keep the Touch out of site).
As for a transport, I would like something that can handle Bluray, SACD DVD-A and DVD as well. That is what attracted me to the Oppo. I have a lot of SACD's already and it would be nice to use those. I bought a Philips transport a couple of years ago for SACD playback. But it can't handle Bluray or DVD-A. Since we will be using higher rez music, it would be nice to be able to play back all of them...thus the Oppo. In all cases, we could feed to the Vision DAC that uses the latest Wolfson chips. It should work quite well.
- Jim
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But that DAC won't do high rez. Is it only for the Touch?
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But that DAC won't do high rez. Is it only for the Touch?
The Vision DAC indeed does support high rez. From the AVA site...
"Versatile - - - the AVA Vision DAC directly accepts 44K, 48K, and 96K bit rates. It can be user adjusted to accept up to 192K 24bit ultra fast input digital data streams too. Simply move one internal jumper."
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Which model was it? The Audio Research CD7 I heard was the best transport I've ever heard. Period!
It was the CD7. The song was "Strange Meadow Lark" on the "Time Out" CD. I certainly agree with your "Period!". :thumb:
http://www.amazon.com/Time-Out-Dave-Brubeck/dp/B000002AGN/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1281324443&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Time-Out-Dave-Brubeck/dp/B000002AGN/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1281324443&sr=1-1)
Bob
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Can you please disclose what the test CD was? I ask because often I take a test CD that I am familiar with and hear it sounding bad, thinking the equipment is at fault. Yet other CDs sound amazing. I eventually realize that my test CD is the problem.
It was Track 1 from a recording of Yo-Yo Ma playing Bach's "6 Unaccompained Cello Suites". It's nothing too complex being a solo cello recording but it does have a nice dynamic range and sounds very good on my reference system.
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It was Track 1 from a recording of Yo-Yo Ma playing Bach's "6 Unaccompained Cello Suites". It's nothing too complex being a solo cello recording but it does have a nice dynamic range and sounds very good on my reference system.
This is one of my favorite pieces of music and I believe it is an excellent demo track. Solo cello is something that can really give you goosebumps when played well.
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It was Track 1 from a recording of Yo-Yo Ma playing Bach's "6 Unaccompained Cello Suites". It's nothing too complex being a solo cello recording but it does have a nice dynamic range and sounds very good on my reference system.
Thanks Brian. Amazon lists 3 versions. Which one were you using in the demo?
From 2010
http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Unaccompanied-Suites-Yo-Yo-Ma/dp/samples/B003PTP5BW/ref=dp_tracks_all_2#disc_2
From 2006
http://www.amazon.com/Bach-6-Unaccompanied-Cello-Suites/dp/B000F6YW3K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1281383725&sr=1-2
From 1990
http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Six-Unaccompanied-Cello-Suites/dp/B0000025QM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1281383725&sr=1-1
Thanks,
Ted
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The 2006 version.
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I need some advice. As far as a higher rez player, do you think the Oppo BD83 would be OK?
- Jim
Far be it from me to give advice but since you asked....
The Oppo is first player that came to my mind.
IMO, unless you go to something expensive, like the Ayre universal player, the chances of impressing an audiosnob are slim and even if you do go big there's still the tube-mod crowd and this devotee and that devotee and on and on and on.
I would say get the Oppo 83 plain Jane or even the Oppo 80.
If I'm understanding the configuration correctly, you're using the AVA DAC so the player is simply a transport and the internal DAC or analog section of the player is doing nothing.
Oppo is well respected and rightly so, plus it fills the all disc duties.
Just my 2 centavos.
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sparks -
Thanks. That is what I was asking. My thoughts were that since the Oppo could handle cd, dvd-a, dvd, sacd, etc., it would handle just about anything someone wanted to listen to. And since we would be using an outboard DAC, we wouldn't really need anything more.
- Jim
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I own both the Oppo bd83 and SE. I also have the Yo-Yo MA Bach "Cut". IMHO the universal use of the Oppo is outstanding.
If using the Vison DAC I can't think of a reason for the SE model. However Kal Rubinson does prefer the new Sony Player over the oppo. But again since the vision dac would be used I cant think of a reason not to use the BD83 as a transport.
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I would have no problem at all using an OPPO 83 at trade show displays. I have one of these in my own HT setup.
Of course the SE addition would be redundant as it will be used with an AVA Vision EC DAC which is capable of up to 192K 24bit performance.
I mentioned before that in the design process we evaluated both the Wolfson 8742 and the ESS Sabre chip set and found that when used with our identical power supplies and analog filter/output circuits, the Wolfson was preferred by all working in the evaluation process here. The ESS seemed just a tiny touch bright and grainy although there was nothing significant we could measure between them.
Regards,
Frank Van Alstine
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Jim I sent you a PM.
If you want to wow the audio crowd I would get the BD83SE model whether you use the analog outputs to a Preamp or the digital outs to Franks DAC....the 83SE has the analog upgrades and improvements that may not be up to AVA standards or quality but it has that "I am serious" factor to it.
The 83SE analog outs to Franks preamp to an Ultravalve is the heat for sure!
Its only $$$!!
Alex
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Anyone know what type of rack that is in the last picture (the silver one in the room with I think stereophile said had 400k worth of stuff in it)? It looks sharp, but I have a feeling it's probably ridiculously priced. Thanks!
Ps-glad the show was a success!
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I have a question about using the Oppo as a transport with the AVA Dac to play SACDs. Won't the digital stream going to the Dac be normal-rez instead of the high-rez DSD. To play SACDs in high-rez wouldn't you have to take the analog outs from the oppo to the preamp?
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Woolz:
You are correct, the SACD format would be passed through the analog outs and only the normal-rez layer would be available to the AVA DAC. The SAC format is propriatary.
Regards,
Dean
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I have a question about using the Oppo as a transport with the AVA Dac to play SACDs. Won't the digital stream going to the Dac be normal-rez instead of the high-rez DSD. To play SACDs in high-rez wouldn't you have to take the analog outs from the oppo to the preamp?
Woolz -
I am currently playing around with an Atlona de-embedder to do just that. The Oppo's digital outs are down-rezed as I understand it. I am trying to set up the Atlona to strip hi-rez signals off the HDMI feed. I may not have time in the next few days to play much, but I'll let you know how it works out.
- Jim
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I don't know Boston Beans about this dude. But I do know that he's way more into the audible implications of different jumpers and flucuations in hotel voltage levels than I am.
There we are with those who hear electrons pass thru $$$ interconnects. I must say that looking at several, shall I say, less than ideal installs (cramped apartments with no acoustic placement concerns at all) that have been posted here and elsewhere, and looking at the number of satisfied customers with Salk speakers, despite all sorts of electronics/voltage issues, etc., it is difficult to place blame on the juice. Now, I realize purchasers want to validate and show off their purchases, but how many dissatisfied purchasers of Salk products are out there? Maybe a thread for those who changed from Salk to whatever and why, would be useful here. I have enough confidence to say it would be a validation of Salk products, for whatever the reason. Frankly, having seen some of the hotel room demo/show setups, that have ben posted here, I don't understand the glowing reviews, unless relative merits are being discussed.
FWIW, I am VERY satisfied with my Ht3's in a very untreated room.
Thank you very much
Fury
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One thing that might have been missed in all of the Sterophile discussion is that the general reaction to the Salk room was extremely favorable. I'm not at liberty to say which groups in particular were impressed, but even the Steophile dude referenced all of the positive event buzz over the SS's.
Speaking of which, I almost had my very first pair of finished Salk speakers this morning. I guess Jim took pity on my mdf-furnished living room when he visited last month, and he packed up a pair of beautiful walnut SS10 cabinets and sent them off on a truck skid for delivery Friday AM. Unfortunately, the dispatcher called to confirm my presence just as I stepped outside to bring in the paper and now I won't get them until Monday. I'm sure they'll be worth the wait, and it will be great to be able to show people what Jim's speakers really look like, not just what they sound like.
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One thing that might have been missed in all of the Sterophile discussion is that the general reaction to the Salk room was extremely favorable. I'm not at liberty to say which groups in particular were impressed, but even the Steophile dude referenced all of the positive event buzz over the SS's.
Speaking of which, I almost had my very first pair of finished Salk speakers this morning. I guess Jim took pity on my mdf-furnished living room when he visited last month, and he packed up a pair of beautiful walnut SS10 cabinets and sent them off on a truck skid for delivery Friday AM. Unfortunately, the dispatcher called to confirm my presence just as I stepped outside to bring in the paper and now I won't get them until Monday. I'm sure they'll be worth the wait, and it will be great to be able to show people what Jim's speakers really look like, not just what they sound like.
:lol:
Hopefully I'll get to see the finished cabinets on my next visit. I did get to see Richard's STs the last time I visited, and they were beautiful!
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Speaking of which, I almost had my very first pair of finished Salk speakers this morning. I guess Jim took pity on my mdf-furnished living room when he visited last month, and he packed up a pair of beautiful walnut SS10 cabinets and sent them off on a truck skid for delivery Friday AM. Unfortunately, the dispatcher called to confirm my presence just as I stepped outside to bring in the paper and now I won't get them until Monday. I'm sure they'll be worth the wait, and it will be great to be able to show people what Jim's speakers really look like, not just what they sound like.
Congrats Dennis - I'm sure you're gonna like them :wine:
But there is nothing wrong MDF test mule cabinets - as long as they're hand rubbed MDF.
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One thing that might have been missed in all of the Sterophile discussion is that the general reaction to the Salk room was extremely favorable. I'm not at liberty to say which groups in particular were impressed, but even the Steophile dude referenced all of the positive event buzz over the SS's.
Speaking of which, I almost had my very first pair of finished Salk speakers this morning. I guess Jim took pity on my mdf-furnished living room when he visited last month, and he packed up a pair of beautiful walnut SS10 cabinets and sent them off on a truck skid for delivery Friday AM. Unfortunately, the dispatcher called to confirm my presence just as I stepped outside to bring in the paper and now I won't get them until Monday. I'm sure they'll be worth the wait, and it will be great to be able to show people what Jim's speakers really look like, not just what they sound like.
Wow, that's awesome, Dennis; Congrats! Please do post pictures when they arrive.
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Wow, that's awesome, Dennis; Congrats! Please do post pictures when they arrive.
And don't forget the truck!
Bob
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I am currently playing around with an Atlona de-embedder to do just that. The Oppo's digital outs are down-rezed as I understand it. I am trying to set up the Atlona to strip hi-rez signals off the HDMI feed. I may not have time in the next few days to play much, but I'll let you know how it works out. - Jim
Have you got the Atlona working Jim?
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Have you got the Atlona working Jim?
No. I have spent the last couple of days getting a new server up and running. I've got a little more work to do on that and then I'll turn my attention to Atlona.
- Jim
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I just received an Atlona unit too. I will be evaluating it with my Oppo and Vision DAC this week.
Regards,
Frank Van Alstine
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I just received an Atlona unit too. I will be evaluating it with my Oppo and Vision DAC this week.
Regards,
Frank Van Alstine
Let us know how it turns out Frank and Jim. I didn't know it was possible to strip-off a hi-rez digital signal for use on external DACs. Have it ready by RMAF, maybe?
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Dennis, did you get your SS10's yesterday as you were hoping? Having fun?
Bob
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Dennis, did you get your SS10's yesterday as you were hoping? Having fun?
Bob
Yup--the driver plopped the skid down in the driveway, and I spent the rest of the day getting them in, wiring them up, listening, measuring as a final check before Jim starts shipping those puppies to deserving customers like you, and then just listening again. And looking. They're super elegant, although I doubt that my photo skill will capture the depth and texture. I don't know how Jim and the crew do it, but the cabinets look like they're made out of solid walnut. I won't post any pics until I get finished upper cabinets. I'm still using mdf prototypes until Jim gets a steady supply of the final molded units.