Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble

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tomlinmgt

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Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #20 on: 26 Nov 2024, 04:13 am »
That is something that would be good to know. If it's not too difficult, run a frequency response on each channel separately and post the results without subs or EQ. Should give you a good deal of information on what should be done next.

Yes, that's certainly my intent.  But an issue with the laptop that's set up for REW is postponing any measurements. Hoping I'll have that sorted out by a family member on Thanksgiving.

WGH

Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #21 on: 26 Nov 2024, 05:02 am »
If it's not too difficult, run a frequency response on each channel separately and post the results without subs or EQ.

I use the classic Radio Shack 33-2050 analog meter with the Stereophile Test CD #1 warble test tones. A SPL correction table is used because the meter's measurements are not accurate below 100Hz. I tried an Android phone sound level meter app and it's horribly inaccurate below 200Hz.

The meter gets the job done, sometimes a computer just makes taking measurments not fun anymore and too complicated. The 95 dB at 40 Hz is a happy little bump up, it feels good.


tomlinmgt

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Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #22 on: 26 Nov 2024, 01:47 pm »
I use the classic Radio Shack 33-2050 analog meter with the Stereophile Test CD #1 warble test tones. A SPL correction table is used because the meter's measurements are not accurate below 100Hz. I tried an Android phone sound level meter app and it's horribly inaccurate below 200Hz.

The meter gets the job done, sometimes a computer just makes taking measurments not fun anymore and too complicated. The 95 dB at 40 Hz is a happy little bump up, it feels good.



I've used that method to get a quick idea what's going on, but the benefit to a more comprehensive measurement method like REW is being able to see what the decay/reverb behavior for each frequency looks like. Frequency response alone only tells half the story and if you're using the data  to create an acoustic treatment plan, you really need to see what's going on with the reverb/decay.

VinceT

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Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #23 on: 26 Nov 2024, 02:09 pm »
I have the LS-9s. I did dial active subs, but the levels were so low I stopped using them because it was not needed. They have bass a plenty.

tomlinmgt

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Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #24 on: 26 Nov 2024, 02:41 pm »
Well I made some very good progress last night. Moved the speakers out so that there's an additional foot between them, pulled the subs out from the corner a bit and lowered the crossover frequency until I just started to hear/feel the "chest thump" diminish (68 Hz)  then dialed in the gain and I gotta say, it's sounding very, very good. All the tracks I was testing with that were the most problematic now pass with flying colors. The bass drum in Chris Issak's "King of the Highway" has the perfect amount of weight, punch and resonance.  The bass drum pattern in Jack White's "Lazaretto" with all its syncopated beats has perfect timing so that the groove is solidly locked down. Janis Ian's "Breaking Silence" now has that articulate, punchy and full bass drum getting out of the way so the track has all of its space and atmosphere uncluttered by excess bass energy and the deep percussive elements more clearly defined in the sound stage with improved sonic clarity so that the attack of the drum strike has better tactile impact.  And bass notes are clearer, as well. Toto's "A Thousand Years" has a killer bass line that is synced to the bass drum and prominent throughout the song, providing weight and movement that anchors all the other instruments which are playing with a lot of space between notes.  The bass guitar also plays with small steps between the notes, providing an excellent opportunity to hear any notes that may be out of balance in volume and weight.  If your system is recreating melodic bass at a very high level, this one should be a treat for anyone's ears whether you like the music or not. I would imagine it to be a jaw dropper with very good open baffle bass. Hell, it's a jaw dropper in my system and it's a monkey coffin showroom with my current set up.

Bottom line, I can't wait to get back out to the studio to listen to some music...and THAT's when we know we are in a good place with our rig's performance.  I'll need some more time to confirm it, but at this stage I'm hearing my system play at perhaps the highest level I've ever achieved with any system. The LS6's are pretty remarkable alone, but when bolstered by a solid, dense, authoritative and unobtrusive bottom end that seems unencumbered by the room, truly create a music listening experience that excels on all levels.   And as much as I'd love to have a pair of trio stack OB servo subs, I gotta admit that these JBL 4648 bass bins, with a little tweaking and dialed in to the room and ststem, are truly fantastic. 

Much thanks to all who chimed in. Now I can start having some fun tweaking the LS6's with cable swaps, electronics swaps, isolation/damping footers , etc.

tomlinmgt

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Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #25 on: 26 Nov 2024, 02:49 pm »
I have the LS-9s. I did dial active subs, but the levels were so low I stopped using them because it was not needed. They have bass a plenty.

The LS6's create what is probably the best bass I've ever had in my system from main speakers alone. I've been listening to them for a few months without the subs and have been impressed, if not satisfied most of the time. But now that I've got the subs dialed in, I'm reminded why I go to the trouble. They add extra dimension, presence and scale to the reproduction that simply isn't there without them.  At the very least, I would imagine mine, with the added base energy from the subs, are sounding a lot more like LS9's.

Early B.

Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #26 on: 26 Nov 2024, 03:36 pm »
And as much as I'd love to have a pair of trio stack OB servo subs, I gotta admit that these JBL 4648 bass bins, with a little tweaking and dialed in to the room and ststem, are truly fantastic.

It's great to hear that you got your system dialed in better. But yeah, if you think it sounds good now, a pair of OB servo subs will catapult your system to a different dimension. You'll hear cleaner, more nuanced bass, plus better highs and mids. Keep them on your "gonna buy someday" list.   

tomlinmgt

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Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #27 on: 26 Nov 2024, 03:51 pm »
It's great to hear that you got your system dialed in better. But yeah, if you think it sounds good now, a pair of OB servo subs will catapult your system to a different dimension. You'll hear cleaner, more nuanced bass, plus better highs and mids. Keep them on your "gonna buy someday" list.

Absolutely. Once I get my youngest through college, I'll likely be heading that direction. However, I need to hear what the OB servo subs can do at high SPL as I've only experienced them at moderately loud listening levels.  But all that said, I've heard my fair share of "reference" systems that are priced in the five to six figure range and, to my ears, the low end this system I've assembled isn't giving up much, if anything, to any of them and bests many.

Early B.

Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #28 on: 26 Nov 2024, 06:07 pm »
Absolutely. Once I get my youngest through college, I'll likely be heading that direction.

College is overrated. :lol:

tomlinmgt

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Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #29 on: 26 Nov 2024, 06:33 pm »
College is overrated. :lol:

Because it's overpriced. Lol

Danny Richie

Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #30 on: 27 Nov 2024, 03:22 pm »
Quote
However, I need to hear what the OB servo subs can do at high SPL as I've only experienced them at moderately loud listening levels.

Schedule a visit.

VinceT

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Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #31 on: 27 Nov 2024, 04:23 pm »
The LS6's create what is probably the best bass I've ever had in my system from main speakers alone. I've been listening to them for a few months without the subs and have been impressed, if not satisfied most of the time. But now that I've got the subs dialed in, I'm reminded why I go to the trouble. They add extra dimension, presence and scale to the reproduction that simply isn't there without them.  At the very least, I would imagine mine, with the added base energy from the subs, are sounding a lot more like LS9's.


Subs do add some presence and weight in the low end. A lot of this too is probably system and room dependant. The LS-9s can get a little bass heavy. I'm not sure if it's because the cross over is a little lower  (1000hz) with the LS-9s versus LS-6, or maybe my amp/room, but in my system I almost find the mids ever so slightly less prominent so I no longer run subs to balance out the mids more.

tomlinmgt

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Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #32 on: 27 Nov 2024, 04:29 pm »
Schedule a visit.

That's been on my to do list for a few years now. You're just a few hours from Arlington, so I need to make this happen. Don't you or didn't you have a new listening space under construction?

tomlinmgt

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Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #33 on: 27 Nov 2024, 04:32 pm »

Subs do add some presence and weight in the low end. A lot of this too is probably system and room dependant. The LS-9s can get a little bass heavy. I'm not sure if it's because the cross over is a little lower  (1000hz) with the LS-9s versus LS-6, or maybe my amp/room, but in my system I almost find the mids ever so slightly less prominent so I no longer run subs to balance out the mids more.

If I recall, your room is pretty big with tall ceilings, correct?

VinceT

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Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #34 on: 27 Nov 2024, 05:14 pm »
If I recall, your room is pretty big with tall ceilings, correct?


Good memory

Tyson

Re: Integrating subs with LS6's...having a little trouble
« Reply #35 on: 27 Nov 2024, 05:18 pm »
VinceT, corner traps can help the boom, if you don't already have them.