Power Cords....Review Link

lonewolfny42 · « **on:** 26 Jan 2007, 11:50 pm »

Surfing around, came across a new thread today.....Power Cord Shootout-22 Power Cords Reviewed.......from Steve Hoffman's site.
An interesting read......

The_KiD · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 Jan 2007, 12:10 am »

Yea, it is a good read. I came across it a while back. Their findings and impressions on several of the cords were very similiar to mine in my system.. Some good information there..

Nice to post it..

Cheers,

KiD

tigzstudio · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Jan 2007, 01:04 am »

And also note he is not using a speaker rig to test them, but a headphone amp/ setup.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 Jan 2007, 01:07 am »

Quote from: tigzstudio on 27 Jan 2007, 01:04 am

And also note he is not using a speaker rig to test them, but a headphone amp/ setup.

I would think with a headphone/amp setup, you would really notice any changes......right ?

Gordy · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Jan 2007, 01:29 am »

Headphones would certainly remove any room effects/masking, though the power supply of a headamp is comparatively small compared to the toys we play with! Interesting though, the Black Sands fared extremely well, as it did with those here that have used it

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Jan 2007, 04:34 am »

This is the same guy who reviewed cords at HeadFi.org...http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=221540

It's great read and an amazing amount of time spent doing it.

His review prompted me to buy a couple Iron Lung Jellyfish from Bizzy Bee Audio a while back
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/bizzyb/ for $23.99 each.

They are now on sale for only $29.99 a pair...with free shipping if you pay via MO.

They are very good cords. Very dynamic....possibly due to the unshielded nature. Other cords tends to sound 'pinched' in comparison...albeit quieter or more detailed. Perhaps OFC or other more copper would've helped it further. Frankly, it sounds most like stock power cords...except bigger and fuller. They sound similar because they are all standard copper....but the Jellyfish is 14ga, and has hospital grade connectors that really grip well. It's very flexible....as those heavy, inflexible cords never quite sit tight in the IEC's. The Jellyfish does. Kudos!

jhd · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Jan 2007, 05:02 am »

I'm interested to know the theory behind power cables. Call it a newbie question.

If electricity travels over city power lines, and over 50 year old power wires within my home, and then to an outlet, how does a 6' stretch of power cable make a difference?

This is an honest question - I'm not looking to stir up trouble.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Jan 2007, 05:16 am »

Quote from: jhd on 27 Jan 2007, 05:02 am

I'm interested to know the theory behind power cables. Call it a newbie question. If electricity travels over city power lines, and over 50 year old power wires within my home, and then to an outlet, how does a 6' stretch of power cable make a difference?

This is an honest question - I'm not looking to stir up trouble.

Here's what is posted in the review....

"I’m A Skeptic, Prove to Me That Power Cords Work!
I didn’t believe in them either, until I tried one on a lark a few years ago. It had a 30-day no-hassle return policy-- I didn’t return it, and haven’t looked back since. Yeah, I know there’s all that non-audiophile-grade cabling in your walls preceding your fancy new power cord. And then from your walls back to the power plant are miles more.

But instead of thinking of it as being the *last* 6 feet of cabling, it can be thought of as the *first* 6 feet. It may be more useful to think of it not in terms of *improving* your system’s performance but in terms of *removing the harm* caused it by stock power cabling. It is also possible that the superior power cords act as a sort of “conditioner” on the power line, conditioning the electricity before it enters your component. Generally, fancy power cords also have superior shielding for rejecting EMI/RFI “pollution”, providing a cleaner transmission of electricity to your gear.

My overall experience with power conditioners and especially with power cables has opened my eyes to the importance of having a good, clean power supply to feed your audio gear, it’s truly the “life-blood” of your system, and the effects of correcting shortcomings in the power feeding your gear is not small.

If that’s not good enough explanation for you and you have problems with the concept that power cables can effect system performance, do yourself (and me) a favor—just stop reading! This thread is not for you, and debate about their efficacy will not be part of this review or this thread.

Or, you can try one for yourself and see. "

As he says......you can try one for yourself and see.

mca · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Jan 2007, 06:13 am »

Too bad the Reality Cable power cords were not included. I would love to know how they would have done.

gongos · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 Jan 2007, 07:01 am »

Quote from: mca on 27 Jan 2007, 06:13 am

Too bad the Reality Cable power cords were not included. I would love to know how they would have done.

I think I know someone that as a couple locally.

bpape · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Jan 2007, 02:55 pm »

I've heard that question before and I just respond to it this way...

The roads area full of potholes and patches, why should I fix my driveway - it's only the last 40'

Seriously, I was never a power cord believer either. As long as the connectors are good, the conections are clean and tight, and the wire is an appropriate gage to support the draw - there shouldn't be any difference. Then I actually sat down and listened to cords a few times.

They do make a difference. It's not earth shattering. Certainly nothing like new speakers or treating your room but there are subtle differences. It's like a lot of other tweaks - it makes a small difference. When you add up 10-20 things that all make a small difference, pretty soon you've had a serious impact on the overall sound.

In the grand scheme of things, as long as what you have is sufficent size and decent quality already, it's probably the last upgrade I'd make to my system. There are a lot of other things that will make more difference.

Just my 2 cents.

Bryan

LightFire · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 04:23 pm »

Quote from: jhd on 27 Jan 2007, 05:02 am

I'm interested to know the theory behind power cables. Call it a newbie question. If electricity travels over city power lines, and over 50 year old power wires within my home, and then to an outlet, how does a 6' stretch of power cable make a difference?

This is an honest question - I'm not looking to stir up trouble.

I will give you an honest and clear answer:

IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL!!!

As an Electronics Technician I know that it makes no difference. You will not find one single person with a degree in engineering, or even somebody whom finished high school and actually paid attention to their "electricity 101" classes that would agree with such a absurd statement that a power cord of an audio system would make a difference on the sound it produces.

All the audio equipment in the market has to be UL approved for safety reasons, so their are never underdimensioned. And if they were underdimensioned they would get warm with use. It would be easy to identity and still would make no difference in the sound quality!

There are lots of absurd claims in the "Audiophile (Disney)World". But this one is by far the worst! It never (obviously) passes a double blind test.

You are right in your initial assumptions. This world is full of absurd claims (specially in the Stereophile magazine) and this forum is no exception. So please, don't believe in any "non sense" you may find here.

Please consider reading the following links:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t45432.html

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/cablessciencereligion.php

http://s88932719.onlinehome.us/audio_bs.htm

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 04:29 pm »

ahhh, Lightfire......your input is valued and appreciated, but try to make your point without insinuating 'stupidity' on the part of the membership here.

Even if you have different ideas than most here, even if you may be correct on any subject - please play nice in the sandbox that is AudioCircle.

John / TCG

yo2tup · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 05:29 pm »

Quote from: LightFire on 28 Jan 2007, 04:23 pm

As an Electronics Technician I know that it makes no difference. You will not find one single person with a degree in engineering, or even somebody whom finished high school and actually paid attention to their "electricity 101" classes that would agree with such a absurd statement that a power cord of an audio system would make a difference on the sound it produces.

I'm an engineer by degree and trade, and have a few audiophile friends that are also engineers. We can all hear the differences between different boutique power cords. Its really not that difficult to hear the differences between good power cords. I too was a skeptic and expected nothing for a power cord swap, all it took was a demo in my system.

LightFire · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 07:04 pm »

Quote from: yo2tup on 28 Jan 2007, 05:29 pm

I'm an engineer by degree and trade, and have a few audiophile friends that are also engineers. We can all hear the differences between different boutique power cords. Its really not that difficult to hear the differences between good power cords. I too was a skeptic and expected nothing for a power cord swap, all it took was a demo in my system.

Was that a double blind demo?

As an Engineer you have to admit the need for scientific proof beyond doubt as well ad being aware of the Placebo Effect.

tigzstudio · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 07:09 pm »

I tested it just the other day on my friend... switching power cords, and then pretending like i switched em when i really didnt... he never knew which ones i was using ... yet he would always pick the same one as his favorite or the one he thought was better sound. =) BTW it is also the one I like and use.

rajacat · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 07:15 pm »

Lightfire,

Can you prove that different power cords do not affect sound quality? Have you done double blind tests? It's easy for you to sit back and be the skeptic but at the same time offer no proof to support your point of view.

Have you even done your own tests on your own system using a variety of cords? I doubt it, so you can't even offer anecdotal evidence to confirm your skepticism.

Raj

LightFire · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 07:36 pm »

Quote from: rajacat on 28 Jan 2007, 07:15 pm

Lightfire,

Can you prove that different power cords do not affect sound quality? Have you done double blind tests? It's easy for you to sit back and be the skeptic but at the same time offer no proof to support your point of view...

Raj

The burden of proof is on the one that claims a new discovery, that something exists that wasn't known before. This is part of the scientific method. And so far they have failed to provide any evidence. I can sit back and relax. Science is on my side.

jrebman · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 07:40 pm »

Quote from: LightFire on 28 Jan 2007, 07:04 pm

As an Engineer you have to admit the need for scientific proof beyond doubt as well ad being aware of the Placebo Effect.

I too am an engineer by training and truly, most of this cable stuff pegged my BS meter until I actually gave it a try for myself.

I have heard systems from 3k to 300k and in general I believe the higher the resolution of the entire system, the more definitive the differences in cabling. I also don't believe strict scientific proof is at all necessary as there are many things going on both in terms of physics and electronics, and no doubt perception as well that are beyond our current means to measure. What is important is a consistent test environment, and as long as my ears are my ears, than that is the ultimate arbiter as they remain the consistent transducer in the measurement end of the test setup.

I am also totally and completely blind, so all testing with me as a subject is by definition, "blind", when somebody else is doing the swapping. I can't read labels and such, so I have no idea if I'm pluggin in a multi-thousand Nordost Valhalla cable or the radio shack $7 cable -- until the music comes on, and then it is painfully obvious.

I also don't want to imply that you need to spend thousands of dollars to get a noticeable effect, and some less expensive cables will, I'm sure make as much difference as their more expensive brothers, again, generally depending on the overall resolution of the system.

There is just more to it than what can be measured with a meter or scope, and what Ohm, Faraday, Henry, etc. can tell us about what is going on at that ultra simplistic Newtonian level... much more.

-- Jim

mfsoa · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 Jan 2007, 07:57 pm »

The morning after I changed my outlets (to whatever the cheapest upgrade was at VHAudio) my 12 yr old son was watching Family Guy on TIVO. Out of the blue he says "Dad, check out the voices, they're all different"

To me, they sounded different as well, but talk about a blind listening test - My son's never given a thought to the sound of my system, but the change in outlets was immediately noticable to him.

Lightfire,
What power cords/interconnects have you tried in your system? You must have given serious auditioning time to most of the contenders out there to pronounce them to be equivalent. I wish I had the time, money and listening skill that you posess to be able to make such well informed judgements.