[lonewolfny42]

Lightfire,

Can you prove that different power cords do not affect sound quality? Have you done double blind tests? It's easy for you to sit back and be the skeptic but at the same time offer no proof to support your point of view...

Raj

The burden of proof is on the one that claims a new discovery, that something exists that wasn't known before. This is part of the scientific method. And so far they have failed to provide any evidence. I can sit back and relax. Science is on my side.

Well..... .....there you go again Light-"A"-Fire....
Maybe....just maybe.....you should visit this site........more your style.

As for power cords....just listen, and make up your own mind.....you are the final judge....

[aerius]

I will give you an honest and clear answer:

IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL!!!

As an Electronics Technician I know that it makes no difference. You will not find one single person with a degree in engineering, or even somebody whom finished high school and actually paid attention to their "electricity 101" classes that would agree with such a absurd statement that a power cord of an audio system would make a difference on the sound it produces.

You know what this means?  It means I only have to pull up one engineer who believes power cords make a difference to invalidate all your statements.  I present Lynn Olson, formerly of Tektronix, engineer & designer of various DHT amps as well as loudspeakers.  In fact, I'll even quote from his web page:

Mainstream AES-school engineers have ridiculed "audiophile" power cords for many years, but EMI emission from solid-state-rectifier power supplies is no joke. It's hard to identify on a scope (the trace just looks a little thicker), but a wideband spectrum analyzer clearly displays the comb spectra created by the switching devices. The fancy power cords may be doing their greatest benefit by partially shielding the dirty power supplies from other solid-state equipment and CD players.

If that's not enough you can search the rest of his posts on Audio Asylum.  By the way, this also means power cords have measurable differences besides current conduction, putting yet more holes through your theory.  Oops, and have a nice day.

[LightFire]

You know what this means?  It means I only have to pull up one engineer who believes power cords... If that's not enough you can search the rest of his posts on Audio Asylum...  By the way, this also means power cords have measurable differences besides current conduction, putting yet more holes through your theory.  Oops, and have a nice day.

You are right to certain degree. I will re make my statement:

As an Electronics Technician I know that it makes no difference. You will not find one single person with a degree in Electrical or Electronics Engineering and is in good mental health, is honest and is not delusional, or even somebody whom finished high school and actually paid attention to their "electricity 101" classes that would agree with such a absurd statement that a power cord of an audio system would make a difference on the sound it produces.

I don't a have a theory to prove. The guys that believe in "power cord difference" are the ones that have the obligation to prove it right. And so far they have failed in using the scientific method and/or taking the placebo effect into consideration.

By the way. Asylum is really a meaningful name to the Audio Asylum web site.

[shep]

This feels like good old times! Where's Dr. G. when we need him to add a bit of spice to the mix?

[aerius]

You are right to certain degree. I will re make my statement:

As an Electronics Technician I know that it makes no difference. You will not find one single person with a degree in Electrical or Electronics Engineering and is in good mental health, is honest and is not delusional, or even somebody whom finished high school and actually paid attention to their "electricity 101" classes that would agree with such a absurd statement that a power cord of an audio system would make a difference on the sound it produces.

Ad hominen fallacy, try again.  If an engineer disagrees with you, he must be a lunatic.  I love that one.  It must feel nice when you can write off all who disagree with you as "dishonest" or "delusional".  Are you really that insecure?

I don't a have a theory to prove. The guys that believe in "power cord difference" are the ones that have the obligation to prove it right. And so far they have failed in using the scientific method and/or taking the placebo effect into consideration.

Uh-huh, again, there are objective measurable differences between power cords, which can be measured by anyone with a good 'scope or spectrum analyzer.  You still insist that differences do not exist, period, despite the fact that they've been measured.  What's next, the Sun goes around the Earth?

[rajacat]

Lightfire,

There already have been AC members who  have EE's, BTW I notice that you only have a Elect. Tech degree , who have said that they can hear differences in PC's. So do you must have a degree in psychology too to state that these Electrical Engineers are delusional. BTW your avatar suits you perfectly.

[jkelly]

I just received my Trends TA-10 amp and because I have been on Vinnies battery equipment for
the last few years I started to play with different power cords for the switching supply that comes with
the amp.  I was able to increase the bass response and darkness/brightness of the sound as well
as the width of the soundstage by changing different power cords of the power supply.

If your are in the near field of the soundstage and listening and looking for everything in the window,
I don't know how you couldn't hear a difference.

BTW the TA-10 amp is really cool - talk about a wide soundstage!  The OB B200's work great with this amp.
Not as velvet like and detailed as Vinnies but 3D and rap-around sound stage is amazing.  Kind of feels like
the surround processor mode was turned on.

Jeff

[shep]

Jeff, thanks for that...I was hearing some things with my Trends that didn't vy with what others (like you) have reported. I was/am using a garbage power cord from an old computer. I just ordered a new one off e-bay. Nothing very special but a whole lot better made and designed than the one I'm using. I'm choosing to ignore our friend above. I hear differences. I wish I didn't! it would be cheaper and easier. I'll post again on this if hasn't disappeared in the mean time.

[LightFire]

...If an engineer disagrees with you, he must be a lunatic...

Only when the Engineer disagrees with modern science, which is the very foundation of his/her Engineering Degree.

...there are objective measurable differences between power cords, which can be measured by anyone with a good 'scope or spectrum analyzer.  You still insist that differences do not exist, period, despite the fact that they've been measured...  What's next, the Sun goes around the Earth?

There will be no difference in the sound coming out of the speakers. And the statements that keep on appearing here on this discussion all failed to be scientifically valid so far.

...What's next, the Sun goes around the Earth?

Once you mentioned. I feel, here in this discussion, like I was transported back on time to the Dark Ages and was trying to convince the people there that Earth is NOT flat!

[aerius]

Only when the Engineer disagrees with modern science, which is the very foundation of his/her Engineering Degree.

Define "modern science".  Do I have to point out all the scientists & engineers whose theories disagreed with the "modern science" of their times and who were later proven to be correct?

There will be no difference in the sound coming out of the speakers.

Based on what?  Prove it.

And the statements that keep on appearing here on this discussion all failed to be scientifically valid so far.

You're sounding like a broken record here.  Not scientifically valid in what way?  Your entire mantra to date is "double blind test" and "according to science".  You've provided no evidence of why, it's about time you started.

[LightFire]

Only when the Engineer disagrees with modern science, which is the very foundation of his/her Engineering Degree.

Define "modern science".  Do I have to point out all the scientists & engineers whose theories disagreed with the "modern science" of their times and who were later proven to be correct?

There will be no difference in the sound coming out of the speakers.

Based on what?  Prove it.

And the statements that keep on appearing here on this discussion all failed to be scientifically valid so far.

You're sounding like a broken record here.  Not scientifically valid in what way?  Your entire mantra to date is "double blind test" and "according to science".  You've provided no evidence of why, it's about time you started.

Sorry but it is your side's burden to prove power cords make a difference in sound output and it all have to be scientifically based otherwise it is no more than a fallacy.

If I am being repetitive it is because you don't understand (or don't want to understand) what I said before. Please go back, re-read my posts and links and take some time to rationalize. You will end up understanding it sooner or later.

Oops. Forgot something:

Modern science definition: the science currently in use.

[arthurs]

Only when the Engineer disagrees with modern science, which is the very foundation of his/her Engineering Degree.

Define "modern science".  Do I have to point out all the scientists & engineers whose theories disagreed with the "modern science" of their times and who were later proven to be correct?

There will be no difference in the sound coming out of the speakers.

Based on what?  Prove it.

And the statements that keep on appearing here on this discussion all failed to be scientifically valid so far.

You're sounding like a broken record here.  Not scientifically valid in what way?  Your entire mantra to date is "double blind test" and "according to science".  You've provided no evidence of why, it's about time you started.

Sorry but it is your side's burden to prove power cords make a difference in sound output and it all have to be scientifically based otherwise it is no more than a fallacy.

If I am being repetitive it is because you don't understand (or don't want to understand) what I said before. Please go back, re-read my posts and links and take some time to rationalize. You will end up understanding it sooner or later.

Oops. Forgot something:

Modern science definition: the science currently in use.

This topic gives me tired-head....

[JDUBS]

Only when the Engineer disagrees with modern science, which is the very foundation of his/her Engineering Degree.

Define "modern science".  Do I have to point out all the scientists & engineers whose theories disagreed with the "modern science" of their times and who were later proven to be correct?

There will be no difference in the sound coming out of the speakers.

Based on what?  Prove it.

And the statements that keep on appearing here on this discussion all failed to be scientifically valid so far.

You're sounding like a broken record here.  Not scientifically valid in what way?  Your entire mantra to date is "double blind test" and "according to science".  You've provided no evidence of why, it's about time you started.

Sorry but it is your side's burden to prove power cords make a difference in sound output and it all have to be scientifically based otherwise it is no more than a fallacy.

If I am being repetitive it is because you don't understand (or don't want to understand) what I said before. Please go back, re-read my posts and links and take some time to rationalize. You will end up understanding it sooner or later.

Oops. Forgot something:

Modern science definition: the science currently in use.

You won't see LightFire proving anything, because he can't.  He on AudioCircle to instigate...period.

[NewBuyer]

You won't see LightFire proving anything, because he can't.  He on AudioCircle to instigate...period.

Well LightFire is definitely proving that many people here are defensive about their claims and perceptions.

I'm glad LightFire does this, it keeps me on my toes (and not just me apparently).

I like LightFire's posts. It's good to have some balance, we all know this audio stuff is full of snake-oil and we need to be reminded about it (well at least I do).

Edit: I wish I knew the answer about power cords making a difference or not - I personally wonder if they may act more or less like a radio antenna, and if this could account for any possible differences...

[Beezer]

Is there any "scientific proof" that power cords do make a difference?  Obviously people hear a difference as much of the anecdotal evidence hear suggests.  And there is some evidence that seems to be measurement-based also.  My question to lightfire would be what does this scientific proof look like?  Is it measurements of sound parameters emanating from loudspeakers in an anechoic environment?  Or double blind testing across a large sample of people and systems over time?  Something else?

Sorry about all the questions, but I'm just not sure what constitutes definitive evidence in this case...

Beez

[NewBuyer]

...Better sound through experimentation and listening is attainable by anyone in the audio hobby if they will get beyond their envy and open their minds to the possibilities.

It seems to me, that this above quote, is the same point being made by both sides in these audio debates...

[arthurs]

Everyone should buy and listen to whatever they want and be happy with whatever it is that turns their crank...who are any of us to tell anyone else what they can or cannot hear, what will or won't make a difference to them (real or perceived) and what they should or should not spend their own money on?  If you think power cords make no difference and prefer to use the stock cord that comes with your gear, good for you!  If you think they make a big difference and want to drop the money on them, good for you!  If you don't give a damn about the whole argument, good for you!

What a waste of energy these threads are.....

[gme109]

Only when the Engineer disagrees with modern science, which is the very foundation of his/her Engineering Degree.

Define "modern science".  Do I have to point out all the scientists & engineers whose theories disagreed with the "modern science" of their times and who were later proven to be correct?

There will be no difference in the sound coming out of the speakers.

Based on what?  Prove it.

And the statements that keep on appearing here on this discussion all failed to be scientifically valid so far.

You're sounding like a broken record here.  Not scientifically valid in what way?  Your entire mantra to date is "double blind test" and "according to science".  You've provided no evidence of why, it's about time you started.

Sorry but it is your side's burden to prove power cords make a difference in sound output and it all have to be scientifically based otherwise it is no more than a fallacy.

If I am being repetitive it is because you don't understand (or don't want to understand) what I said before. Please go back, re-read my posts and links and take some time to rationalize. You will end up understanding it sooner or later.

Oops. Forgot something:

Modern science definition: the science currently in use.

One day modern science will prove you wrong, but as of now, modern science ain't all that. But luckily we have a much more advanced device for evaluating subtle differences in sound, that are not currently available through so called "modern science", they're called ears, you should try using them some time. And one more thing, this forum is not for Electronics Technician geeks, its for audiophiles.

[mjosef]

As I see it science, modern or ancient, is always expanding, always discovering "new" things... 10, 20, 30 years ago some scientists laughed at other scientists who believed in Dark Matter...now its part of the equation.
I hear a lot of scientists constantly saying that though we don't know everything, we do know somethings, and each new discovery opens up the door for even more discoveries.
So when I see someone casting science in a tomb of stone... I think "oh, he's a madman, let him be"

[gme109]

As I see it science, modern or ancient, is always expanding, always discovering "new" things... 10, 20, 30 years ago some scientists laughed at other scientists who believed in Dark Matter...now its part of the equation.
I hear a lot of scientists constantly saying that though we don't know everything, we do know somethings, and each new discovery opens up the door for even more discoveries.
So when I see someone casting science in a tomb of stone... I think "oh, he's a madman, let him be"

I was not casting science in a tomb of stone, but pointing out what you yourself had mentioned, we don't know everything. And at this point in time, science can not measure transparency, soundstage depth, and subtle harmonic differences in sound, but our ears can. I see someone who is casting doubt on their own ability to listen, and I think, he is a geek, let him be.