[John B]

A month or so ago I was here to report on my audition of the RM40's.   A Wonderful speaker, wanted them oh so bad at the time.   Well, it's a good thing I didn't get them, as my neighbor has threated to file complaints on the smaller speakers I have now, well not on the poor speakers themselves, they only do what comes naturally, make big sounding wonderful music.  No the action is aganist their owner, namely me, so after a rather intense disscussion with him and the wife, I decided it was best to sell my Dynaudio speakers, and the rest of my rig's super amps and pre-amps and shoot for a headphone system.   Early experiments with that way of listening to audio are not going well.   So, here comes Brian to my possible rescue   I'll be heading over to this place to listen to his solution to the neigbor problem.  The 626Rs.   What I've read of them in reviews say they need a lot of time to break-in, they have very well defined bass, but nothing that's gonna stir you or the neighbors to any bass intense positive or negative heights.  

If I like the sound of these speakers, the next step is determining amplification.   What do these speakers like?  Any experiences you could share with me if you have these would be much appreciated.    I am planning on adding headphones to this rig I'm putting together, more than likely the AKG K1000, which would need to be hooked to the speaker binding posts of the amp to use, so we're looking for an integrated that...and I don't know if this is possible or even wise, I can hook these speakers and the phones up to two sets of speaker binding posts on the Integrated amp?

[Zoe]

When I bought my RM-40s from John Casler, I decided to take a listen to the 626s before leaving.  Well, the first thought that crossed my mind was, "Why am I paying all this money for the RM-40s when these 626s sound this good?"

They are very good.  Supposedly the only difference is in volume of sound (not loudness exactly, but in size, cause I guess they can be driven very loudly. We never heard the RM-40s driven much past 90 dB).

I take it you can't move to a farmhouse in the country.

I don't see why you expect that complaints from your neighbor will go away. What dB level will he tolerate? Get the RM-40s and keep it below that level.  You will have to use the same policy regardless of that the brand/model# of the speaker is.

Nevertheless, the 626s are very, very good. (Especially in Casler's room/setup)

[Wayne1]

I have 626Rs. In fact I have had three pair of 626Rs. If you want lease breaking volume, these can comply. If you want to hear all the subtlies that your music has to offer, these will also suit.

I have run mine with anything from 75 watt per channel tube amps to 350 wpc solid state pro audio amps. I feel the best sound comes from the tube amps used with a tube preamp and tube phono preamp and vinyl playback system.

They also worked wonderfully when driven with a modded Panasonic SA-XR45 in a HT system.

I cannot really suggest one amp thet would work well with both headphones and speakers. The AKGs are happy with 8 to 20 watts and the 626Rs would really like to have 75-100 watts driving them.

I believe a few folks like to use the nOrh SE-9 or SE-18 for the AKGs. This would be a fairly inexpensive option. Then you could get some nice EL-34 PP amps for the 626Rs

[UTLaw]

First a quick legal note....

You're allowed to listen to music at a "reasonable" level within your dwelling.  If the walls are thin this is a construction problem and is not your fault.  I have no idea what your current situation is, but people who live in apartments or condos - like myself - should have no expectation of complete silence from their neighbors.  The lower prices on these types of environments reflects this.

A lot of people complain just to complain - they have nothing else to do.  But the fact remains you are well within your rights as long as you're not trying to blow the walls down.         If you meet this "reasonable" standard your neighbors can complain all they want, but they have no legally enforceable complaint.

I've already had this discussion with one neighbor, and she has since left me alone.  

Back to the speakers....

I currently have the 626Rs with a Denon 3803.  A have a small condo now, so this set up is just to get me through school.  I've loved the sound and currently couldn't be happier.  

[John Casler]

Hey JB,

I think I'm running a system that might interest you.  It consist of the following:

MiniMax CDP (with headphone outlet that seems to work "VERY" well)
MiniMax PreAmp
CineNova 3 channel Power amp
626R speakers.

This system is absoulutley incredible and rather cost effective and it also gives you the flexibilty to add a SUB (on the third channel) if your circumstances improve to allow such.

I also recently sent one of my clients the Krell Integrated amp (200wpc) that is almost perfect for you.

As far as the neighbors, might I suggest a solution that should make both of you happy.

1) Visit Radio Shack and purchase a "RFI remote controlled switch)

These switches are designed to plug into an outlet and they give you a "remote clicker" that can be used anywhere within about 80 feet.

Plug the switch into the wall outlet close to your speakers and give your neighbor the remote.

Explain that you certainly appreciate his/her right to not be assaulted by "BA-BOOM BA-BOOM" but you would also like to be able to enjoy your equipment to its maximum when it is not bothersome, or when he/she is not home.

And make sure he/she knows that you will in no way be offended if and when he/she uses the device no more than if your wife came in and said "honey I have a headache, would you mind turning it down?".

Also tell him/her that you have purchased some very expensive headphones just for the occasions when they are sensitive to the "extra sound", but the headphones can't replace the overall sound of the best speakers.

And "if" he/she looks like the type who might enjoy the rig or its properties, invite them over for a "listen" which may "increase" their "tolerance" of the system to a degree, as well as possibly adding listening partners to "audio buddies" list.

Make sure and test the device and make sure it functions from his/her location.

Then you have the "green light" to crank it up.  Just make sure and place the light in a postition that "if" it comes on you won't miss it. (I suggest somewhere on the front wall)

This almost makes you "Super Neighbor" (hopefully) in their eyes and allows you to enjoy your rig without guilt or anxiety.

I was going to market these a few years ago but RS has them for about $40 or so.

[Mathew_M]

Don't annoy your neighbors.  I've been on both ends.  I had one guy who lived in the apartment below me who liked to play his death metal at 3 o'clock in the morning.  Didn't matter if the volume was turned down or not, I could still hear the throbbing of the music and it annoyed the hell out of me.

If I were you I'd look into buying that Cary SEI-80 Integrated tube amp.  It puts out 80 watts of power with the magic of tubes and has a headphone jack out.  This way you can play it loud when the neighbors are away and then sit back with the headphones for late night listening.

You can pick up the Cary used on Agon for around $1700 usually.  I would of picked up one by now but it only has 3 inputs.

[jonbee]

I think a stout tube amp is probably a fine choice if you're looking for that "tubey" kind of sound. I use only SS amps, and I've used 4 with my 626s (CJ 2300A, Hafler 9505, Bel Canto 200.2, and PS Audio HCA2) , but my current unit, the HCA2 is a terrific match, particularly since I prize neutrality and clarity so highly. I have a hard time attributing any sound qualities at all to the amp, for good or ill. It just lets all the music flow, seemingly unimpeded and unedited. If that's what you want, the HCA2 for a bit over a grand used is a steal. Above all, avoid wiry, hot or thin sounding amps, though, as the 626s will show these qualities very readily. Go for soundcoat, and Auricaps and the FST (in that order of importance). Add a VMPS sub at a later date, and you've got a "real world" system for life.  BTW, you may find you'll never need a sub- the 626s have astonishing bass for a 6.5 in woofer.

[ekovalsky]

John's idea is a good one.  If that doesn't solve the probem.... move.  Preferably into a house or, if you must stay in an apartment or condo, look for a corner unit on the bottom floor.  Look for units where there are a lot of senior citizens with hearing loss  

Otherwise, get the Sennheisier HD-650 with an Emmeline HR-2 or Meier Prehead and you'll be reasonably happy.

Replacing your Dynaudio speakers with VMPS RM-40, 626, etc will probably improve your system but will do nothing to reduce volume.  You and the volume control determine how much sound seeps through the walls.

[John B]

My listening session with the 626R was as impressive as the RM40 session I had with Brian the last time.   Same listening impressions as last time, which had me questioning why I thought my Dynaudio's were such hot stuff    Thanks again Brian for having me over.  

After my audition of the 626Rs, and a factory tour of the VMPS facility I went to a local high end audio store to listen to their offerings.   After explaining my situation to the sales staff they said they had just what I needed.   Joseph Audio monitor speakers.   They went on about how these speakers won Stereophiles best of in some category and the many other awards it had won.   Perhaps if I had not just come from listening to the 626Rs I would have been falling all over myself to purchase these speakers.   They are very, very good...on par and perhaps better in some respects than the Dynaudio monitor speakers I've heard.   Very impressive sound stage when run by the Conrad Johnson tube integrated amp.   Impressive that is in a purely analytical evaluation.   In truth, I found myself bored and uninvolved with what I was hearing.   At Brians place I was turning to him after each song we played on the 626's with a heartfelt WOW.   I was turned on by what I was hearing.  Insturments had a life like vitality and crystal clear presentation.   I asked the salesman if they had any other speakers that would be different from what I was hearing with the Joseph Audio monitors.   His suggestion was Paradigm, there new reference monitors.   After setting them up with the same rig, it took only a few minutes of listening to determine the results were not exactly the "all out assault on audiophile speakers" that he told me Paradigm had labled these new monitors.   I would have picked Joesph Audio's monitors in a heartbeat...if it were between those two choices.

I of course haven't heard anywhere near all the offerings available in a monitor speaker.   But I don't think it's necesary at this point.   I've heard what I want now.  If I do decide to replace my Dynaudio's with a monitor solution, my minds made up, there will be a pair of 626Rs in the footprints left by my S3.4's.  I am officially a convert, the 626Rs rock my boat  

Now for the hard part.  Deciding if I want to venture back into it with the neighbor.   John's solution is great, though the neighbor and I have already set up a similar method, without the use of a remote control device  He has my phone number and I've told him to call at any time if the music get's to be too much.  

Will the 626Rs be too much for him at my preferred listening level?  If anyone thinks that these little speakers can't put out bone crunching bass on material that has it, think again    Lord have mercy, how can that little bass driver do that!!!

Thanks for all the feedback Circle Mates.   It's appreciated.

[John B]

With my amplification now chosen, the Unison Research Unico Integrated w/ Level-2 mod by Chris Johnson http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1083471127 I'm now left with only one piece of the puzzle to fill in....speaker wire.

I know a DIY guy who has some speaker wire that he's made using silver wire.   Has anyone tried silver wire with these speakers...results?  There's also a local seller who has some Harmonic Tech pro-9 plus that is within my budget range.   Other suggestions in the $500 or under category for 11-15 foot runs?

[John Casler]

Will the 626Rs be too much for him at my preferred listening level? If anyone thinks that these little speakers can't put out bone crunching bass on material that has it, think again  Lord have mercy, how can that little bass driver do that!!!

JB,

Although I have already mentioned this to you, I should probably mention it here, in case others need the info;

To reduce bass response (for late nite listening or whatever) all you need to do is "block or partially block" the rear port.

I had a towel draped over the back of my 626Rs one night and even that reduced the bass.  Placing a soft sock in the port will also reduce it even further, without having any serious affect on the the upper bass, midrange and highs.

With a little experimentation of towel draping or stuffing you can probably tune it to the right amount.

I might also mention that this may also work with the "slot", of the slot loaded floorstanders, but I haven't tried it.

Just FYI

[Rocket]

Hi John,

I dealt with Walter from Underwood hifi almost 2 years ago, it was my first experience at buying direct over the internet.  Bearing in mind i also live in oz and was a little anxious to say the least.  Anyway Walter responded quickly to All my annoying emails and the transaction was Very smooth.

Looks like the modded Unison is a good product.  Do you have the opportunity to listen to it prior to purchase or is there a 30 guarantee with the amp?

Do you think the complaints from your neighbour are warranted?  How loud do you listen to your speakers?  Do you play music late at night?  I take it you live in an apartment, if so are the walls concrete or fibro?

Here in Oz the process is to go thru your local council and in inspector would come to your house and take measurements of the sound from outside the house.  If it is too loud you can be fined or the police can confiscate your equipment for a few days.


Regards

Rod

[John B]

Rocket,

I went over to my neighbors place and listened to what he was hearing.  The volume level I had it at was a couple of notches down from my usual.  At that volume level you get hear a faint thumping sound of bass coming through his wall at about speaker port height.   He said it got much worse than that, and I believed him.   I gave him my phone number and told him to call if it ever got to that level again, and I would turn it down.   My main issue I think was my Dynaudio speakers which don't sound very good unless you play them fairly loud.   Here's a post in regards to that issue that illustrates my problem http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/154970.html

The other issue was a pair of 650wpc mono amps, which were way overkill for room, they sounded great, especially bass response, but that combined with the Dyn's was too much for the neighbor.  

Does he have grounds for legal action...unfortunately the only law in regards to this uses the term "unreasonable", and that is wide open to interpretation.   I do not want to have an outside party have to make that determination, so I've taken the steps necessary to attempt to recitify the problem myself.   Efficient speakers that sound great at low volume levels, an amp that seems appropriate to those levels, and I'm going to install some bass traps at the port levels and upper ceiling levels of the common wall.    Hopefully all this will bring peace, so that I can get back to enjoying this hobby again.

As for the Integrated amp, I've read so many good things about it, I can't imagine it not sounding good with the 626R's.   But as I've learned over the years there's no guaranttees, and I don't expect dealers or mfg's to give me a return policy on these things.   Unless it's part of there business model in trying to get people to try their gear, in that the company is not well known and hasn't had their stuff reveiwed a lot.   We as audio enthusiasts have a great tool for trying out new gear, called Audiogon, if it's not just what you want, sell it, and try something else.   There are also Audiogon dealers who specialize in trades, and if your componet is somewhat new you won't take much of a loss in trading it for one of the products they carry.   I did that with my Simaudio gear, trading it for the Audiomeca player and some cash.

So, that's my story...and I hope it's going to have a very happy ending what with the 626R's coming in and my first attempt at room treatments.

[Rocket]

Hi John,

I have found with the improvements in sound quality in my sytem that i now actually listen to my system at more moderate levels.  Hopefully this will occur when you upgrade your components.

I found walter very good to deal with and he is interested in keeping his customers happy.  Last year i bought my aksa 100 (nirvana) and took a punt as i had not listened to it prior to purchase.  I was very happy with it.

I like taking chances and now prefer to buy direct from manufacturers than buying thru dealers (i hope no one takes offence).

Good luck and let us know how all this pans out.

Btw i think you are being Very reasonable with your neighbour.

regards

rod

[errivera]

John, I notice that you never actually make mention as to how loud you play your music although you do hint that you do like to play it loudly. It would seem though that many would 'take your side' for the sake of music enjoyment.

I have been on the other side of the wall and let me tell you, it can be a distressful situation when someone plays their music too loud and the bass frequencies 'seep' through the walls. The constant pounding can drive someone nuts.

I have considered taking my neighbor to court. In NYC there are Quality of Life laws (I'm sure they exist in other states too) that will uphold a persons right to peace and quiet. The lawyer I spoke with upheld this opinion. I have not proceeded because I find it a waste of my hard earned money just to give it to a lawyer because the local police or homeowners association fails to do anything about it.

Use discretion and common sense when playing music, especially in apartments and condos where there are common walls.

[Rob Babcock]

I weep for apartment dwellers- my life will have to take a major turn southward to ever go back to living that way again.  Of course, not living in a major metro area is great in that respect; anyone could pretty much have a house where I live.

Back in my "apartment Dark Ages" I called the cops more times than I can count on neighbors that thought they owned the building.  You show an amazing amount of empathy and respect, and believe me, you're on the side of the angels here.  It sucks to have your sleep, your meals, your conversations & your live disrupted by some bastard making a lot of noise.

[John B]

John, I notice that you never actually make mention as to how loud you play your music although you do hint that you do like to play it loudly. It would seem though that many would 'take your side' for the sake of music enjoyment.

I have been on the other side of the wall and let me tell you, it can be a distressful situation when someone plays their music too loud and the bass frequencies 'seep' through the walls. The constant pounding can drive someone nuts.

errivera,

I usually play it at what I'd consider moderate volume, in that you could hold a conversation while listening to the music.    In fact, up till putting together this pervious rig late last year, I had'nt had any issues with this neighbor, in over 3 years.   And most of that time I had a Velodyne HGS-12 powered sub and full 5 speaker Dynaudio setup.   When the first complaint happened in January I decided I could live happily with a two-ch rig.  So I sold off the sub, the center, surrounds and pre, and went high end two channel.   This not only did not solve the problem, according to the neighbor it got worse.   That tells me it's got to be tied into amplification, because before the Simaudio mono amps and Titan 5-ch amp, there were still the same sub and Dynaudio speakers, but with more moderate amplification.   Though how he could not have been effected by that Velodyne until recently is a mystery to me.   And that's the thing I think that's so frustrating about this; I've been doing HT and stereo at the same listening levels, which probably never got much over 80db for going on 3 years with this guy, and now all of a sudden it's a problem?  

I'm not someone who can accept having my happiness at the expense of another.   It would bother me to no end if as I set enjoying a Miles Davis album, I knew that on the other side of the wall a man was experiencing sonic misery as I gloried in sonic pleasure.   Anyone who could accept that needs a reality check.

Hopefully my efforts will pay off here, there is history that says it will, I've never had complaints when I used stand mounted speakers, including the Dynaudio Special 25's that I had for about 6 months.   Time will tell  

[Rocket]

Hi,

Why not move your system to either another room or change your room around so you don't have the system up against that wall.

regards

rod

[John B]

Why not move your system to either another room or change your room around so you don't have the system up against that wall.

The downstairs living room has the best structural area for keeping sound out of the ajoing townhouses; upstairs would be walls that ajoin bedrooms and there's much less sound resistance to sound up there, I can hear even a small transistor radio coming through walls very clearly.   I believe the downstairs area has some space between the two walls, which helps a lot, not so upstairs.

The downstairs inner wall is a possibility if this doens't work, but we're talking an L shaped room here, with the inner wall being 28 feet long with only 10 feet of length from side inner wall to side outer wall, with the speakers out at least 2 feet, we'd be very near field, and from what I've read on Brian's Desinger's corner, there's a problem with doing this.   His speakers perform best when they have side near walls to reflect the sound.   Were I to place them inner wall they'd be a good 8 feet from the left "ajoining" wall and a good 14 feet from the right side ajoining wall.   Don't know what that would do to the sound, but from what I've read it might not be good.

[doug s.]

jon-b, here's yer amp:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1081167334

60w full triode, 150w full pentode, or 90 or 120, 1/3pentode or 2/3 pentode.  

if ya have to have an integrated, then this is the ticket:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1083636369

20-35wpc depending on triode/pentode config.  both amps also have adjustable negative feedback...  the adjustability of these amps means they can work well w/many different speakers.

http://mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/For_Audiophiles/for_audiophiles.htm

doug s., satisfied baron owner...