Receiver - Dumby Load on Speakers

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penguinpages

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Receiver - Dumby Load on Speakers
« on: 24 Jan 2023, 02:58 am »

I have been working on / off on my audio room for a year now.  And keep bumping into an issue with my design.

I purchased a Yamaha vsx-9040txh for the surround function , ease of connection, and not amplifier. But this is where things get weird.  The Yamaha clips and goes into protect mode when I play louder , anything past +1.. which is 90-100DB..so loud... but when I am not even pushing load on it (It has no speakers attached when in Stereo mode), that is annoying.  I contacted Yamaha and they were polite, but in summary...  "that is not what we made it for..."  and so I am on my own.   I am not EEE... but keep digging around and think the solution may be simply to put some dumby speaker load connections on the right/ left front speakers.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08D3GJGP7/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A305CAEWZPRP7E&th=1

Question:
1) What will this do to an amplifier.  It SHOULD just create resistance and so allow the amp to not trigger its safety trip that it is detecting no load on higher pre-amp output levels
2) Will this create any long term wear on the amplifier?




FullRangeMan

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Re: Receiver - Dumby Load on Speakers
« Reply #1 on: 24 Jan 2023, 03:42 am »
which is 90-100DB..so loud
IMO this is too much SPL for this receiver.

whydontumarryit

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Re: Receiver - Dumby Load on Speakers
« Reply #2 on: 24 Jan 2023, 06:19 am »
The vsx9040 is made by Pioneer.
Your diagram is illegible.

There is an ECO mode on some Pioneer receivers. Turn it off. That may solve the problem.

penguinpages

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Re: Receiver - Dumby Load on Speakers
« Reply #3 on: 24 Jan 2023, 02:10 pm »

My bad on posting about receiver.  It is a Yamaha TSR-7850  (Pioneer got fried in storm..)

And the output from reciever is pre-out RCA connections that go into MiniDSP 2x4HD in diagram but I am upgrading to a new MiniDSP Flex (same concept but I can use highdef bluetooth streaming.

But load question really was about Yamaha.   The pre-out RCA connections, when I play at higher volumes... put the amp into protection mode as it sees no load..   So would adding those dummy loads eliminate this without hurting the amp.



richidoo

Re: Receiver - Dumby Load on Speakers
« Reply #4 on: 24 Jan 2023, 03:02 pm »
EDIT:

If you have speakers other than front R/L connected to the Yamaha, make sure they are not low impedance or shorted. You can measure with a ohmmeter across the speaker binding posts while connected to the receiver just to make sure it's not a short. Resistance is not impedance so this measurement doesn't tell you the speaker impedance in use - which must not be lower than 6 ohms.

Connect some speakers to the front left and right speaker posts to see what happens.  Experiment with different speakers, to try to find the problem.

It should run fine without a load on it. There's nothing to protect with no speaker.
It's safe to put a resistor on it to try it out, but don't be surprised if it doesn't change.

Use 16 ohm resistor to minimize the current and dummy resistor temperature. Resistor with attached wires can connect directly to output posts. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BM4312DG/

Pretty soon you will have the new miniDSP and not use the receiver anymore, so I wouldn't invest in the resistors.
« Last Edit: 24 Jan 2023, 07:31 pm by richidoo »

whydontumarryit

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Re: Receiver - Dumby Load on Speakers
« Reply #5 on: 24 Jan 2023, 10:25 pm »
My bad on posting about receiver.  It is a Yamaha TSR-7850  (Pioneer got fried in storm..)

And the output from reciever is pre-out RCA connections that go into MiniDSP 2x4HD in diagram but I am upgrading to a new MiniDSP Flex (same concept but I can use highdef bluetooth streaming.

But load question really was about Yamaha.   The pre-out RCA connections, when I play at higher volumes... put the amp into protection mode as it sees no load..   So would adding those dummy loads eliminate this without hurting the amp.

None of these avr s have buffered pre outputs and even if they did the pre is always connected to the amp inputs instead of removable links or switches to completely disconnect the two. That's the problem with these cheap, mainstream components. You can't even configure the mains to off in the setup menu.
If you can use the mini dsp for volume maybe the zone 2 out can be used (it can be configured as fixed or variable level) in fixed mode, maybe this mode disconnects from the amp inputs? Be careful of the volume!

If that doesn't work maybe setting mains levels to -10db in the setup menu will give you more headroom and you can make it up with the 6db gain switch on the mini dsp.
Also, if you are using a center channel there is no significant output from the mains in surround mode. Set the center to none to get more of the signal steered to the mains.

I have so many suggestions because you haven't told us if you listen to only surround or dedicated two channel playback which would be the only reason for you to bother using a separate amp and mini dsp in the first place.
I hope that is the reason.

whydontumarryit

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Re: Receiver - Dumby Load on Speakers
« Reply #6 on: 25 Jan 2023, 08:46 am »
Here are 10W/16 ohm resistors from dayton audio. Less than $5. If nothing else works out.

https://daytonaudio.com/product/154/dnr-16-16-ohm-10w-precision-audio-grade-resistor

nlitworld

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Re: Receiver - Dumby Load on Speakers
« Reply #7 on: 25 Jan 2023, 03:00 pm »
Your diagram shows you also have the subs double connected when you don't necessarily need to. That may be causing the problem. If running them off the dsp, don't connect them to the subwoofer outputs from the receiver. It shouldn't create a problem, but could be making it wonky. Run them just off the dsp connection, set the receiver to no sub and full range output on the front main preouts and see what it does. 🤞

Next option would be to diy a speaker level to line level converter with couple resistors and run your setup that way. It'd be using front speaker outs, speaker wire to binding posts on a small box, resistors to drop the level, then rca outs to your dsp. A little funky and a lot of connections in the signal path, but equally effective in a pinch. I did that to run my subs off my tube integrated, and did it again to run my headphones through there as well.

Final option would be to get a full Pre/Pro and separate multichannel amplifier, and that would be a beneficial but $$ upgrade.