dff files not importing into j river

frank.hardly · « **on:** 17 Mar 2013, 01:07 am »

I have a new selection of files i've been trying to add to my j river library. the flac add no problem. the dff files don't want to upload. any suggestions? the files are ripped sacd's with no iso just the dff's. Ive been able to work around by file/get media file and highlighting the files manually and then it plays no problem and the resolution is dsd (chord chordette qutehd) lights up violet indicating dsd level resolution. Is the problem that there are no tags? Haven't had any useful suggestions on the j river help site. Wonder if there's something in the settings i'm missing. When i go to file/library/import and add the new hard drive location and i tick all the boxes including dff etc its not adding to the library.
If anyone else has had this issue and found a solution, I would love to hear about it.
Thanks

ted_b · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 12:18 pm »

It should import just fine, but DSF is wayyy better due to ful ID3V2 tagging. Why use DFF? The only DFF files I own are downloads that haven't gotten the memo

(I am trying to convince Jared at Channel Classics to allwo DSF downloads too), and I've been too alzy to convert them to DSF and add the damn tags. Extracting straight to DSF adds tags automagically.

Auto import is probably putting them in a section or album called unassigned due to their alck of tags. Go to recent albums and see, or files and sort on folder name.

Phil A · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 12:30 pm »

I had the same issue. They import but are not tagged (yes Ted is correct, they go into unassigned) and I could not figure out what was going on initially. Since I have all DFF (unless there is an easy way to convert those to DSF), I've taken one (the non-classical stuff) hard drive and have it in the computer (vs. the music server) and am getting the cover art via JRiver and other sites. When done, I'll stick them back in the music server and tag the artist and album names. I could not figure out an easier way to do it. I'll have to look at what the library back-up function does after I get done (so I don't have to go through it again. It's more work and I'm hoping it is just once. The classical stuff is just going to have to wait as I have too many things going on

ted_b · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 12:32 pm »

Phil, why are you extracting to DFF (and if they are Tyson rips I've been pleading with him to stop doing DFF; makes no sense at all, none)? DSF does all this for you (except the deep classical composer tags, etc).

Audiogate will convert DFF to DSF.

Phil A · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 12:45 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 18 Mar 2013, 12:32 pm

Phil, why are you extracting to DFF (and if they are Tyson rips I've been pleading with him to stop doing DFF; makes no sense at all, none)? DSF does all this for you (except the deep classical composer tags, etc).

Audiogate will convert DFF to DSF.

Ted, thanks, I may try Audiogate (as what I'm doing is a cumbersome process and I've been doing it when I get time - so far I've done a bit less than half of the non-classical). Yes, some are Tyson rips, but that's how I started as I did not know better. It would really make things easier. Yes it will be work to do everything from DFF to DSF but I'd like to get to the point of being done with most of it. Most of us are doing this for the first time with DSD and taking what we have and getting it ripped (and I'm in process of beginning a move that will be finished early next year and it's taking a ton of time at least until this point to make sure everything is done wiring wise in the new place). It took me 18 months to find the right PS3 and then the laser crapped out after 10 discs and I got it fixed. I've been just struggling to get stuff done and backed-up and have not had much time to look at things.

ted_b · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 12:51 pm »

Phil, yes, but the problem is that you are starting off with DFF, so the tags are not there, and won't be there with DSF. But at least DSF saves them. DFF "tags" only get saved as a sidecar in JRiver, and moving them to another player, etc is without tags. If you have the ISOs I'd just re-extract in batch (when you have time, of course).

Phil A · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 01:02 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 18 Mar 2013, 12:51 pm

Phil, yes, but the problem is that you are starting off with DFF, so the tags are not there, and won't be there with DSF. But at least DSF saves them. DFF "tags" only get saved as a sidecar in JRiver, and moving them to another player, etc is without tags. If you have the ISOs I'd just re-extract in batch (when you have time, of course).

Ted, I have most of the ISOs (might be missing a few here or there). I have not looked at the batch function but if I'm doing some files at a time, is it just easier to use Audiogate? Most of the ISO files are on a one big hard drive (with not tons of leftover space) and the DFF files are on a couple of others (classical and non-classical) and broken down into genre folders for the non-classical. So the ISO files basically fill up a big hard drive. I guess my question is where would the extract be to if I did some batch process? Obviously, I don't know how long either is going to take. I did look at the Audiogate page - http://www.korguser.net/audiogate/en/requirements.html

Phil A · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 01:10 pm »

Forgot to mention that the DFF files in genre folders are mixed with other hi-rez files. So it would be tough to figure out what ISOs I would be missing easily. I'm going through the process now of going over the non-classical ones and if I'm missing a DFF file or other hi-rez file, I'm putting it into the hard drive I use with the music server. When done, I'll take a duplicate drive and make sure I have everything backed-up. That's why I'm thinking it may be easier to just go down the list and convert the DFF files. It's kind of lots of files and I have back-ups but probably not in the most organized fashion as I started out not exactly knowing where I'm going. By doing what I'm doing now, except for some hi-rez and regular CDs I have not ripped, I'll end up with a 3TB hard drive of non-classical hi-rez, a 3TB hard drive of classical hi-rez and regular CDs separated in genre folders (when I get to it) and then I'll work on some multi-channel as my music server has HDMI out.

ted_b · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 01:13 pm »

The ISO extracts will occur on the drive where you do the extracts.

Here is a simple primer:

1) First make a new folder close to a root drive (so the naming path doesn’t get too long..sometimes the classical ones are ridiculous). Call it, say, ISO2DSD.
2) Then make a subfolder in it called Programs (capital “P”).
3) Put the SACD-extract.exe (first link below, unzip) executable in the Programs subfolder.

http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/downloads/detail?name=sacd_extract_0.3.7_WIN32.zip&can=2&q=

4) Put the bat file (link below, unzip) in the main folder.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3487125/Extract%20DST%20Stereo%20DSF%20Files.zip

5) So then put any number of ISOs (rename the ISOs if their name is too long; something that will uniquely identify them but not too long) you want to extract in the main folder (the one with the bat, the one we called ISO2DSD).
6) Click on the bat file and then each ISO will extract to DSF tracks, putting one album full of tracks in a folder each (20 ISOs, 20 new folders created). When you do this again remove the already-extracted ISOs or they will get worked on again! Each ISo can take 10 minutes or more, so once you have this down well do a shitload overnight.

Phil A · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 01:32 pm »

Ted, I've been doing the extracts on the PC. I've got a 2TB and 1TB drive and then an external 1TB drive for normal PC stuff. I've been extracting and not keeping all the ISOs there as there is not enough room and the intent was to have a music server separate from what I use as a PC. I have some ISO files on the PC (perhaps 15% of of the total give or take) and all of them are on an external 3TB drive that is nearly full (and I may have some more that are not on it). The DFF files are already on hard drives mixed with other hi-rez by genre. So if I did batch extracts, I'd have to do it in pieces either way. I guess I could try both ways and see what works easier. My thought process was that since I have all of the files on the hard drives that I will use on the music server when I'm done (and they are already organized in a certain way and not necessarily how I would have done them but I've just left that structure in place and if I did do batch extracts, I'll still have to split them up somehow at the end on the two 3TB drives), and not knowing how much time Audiogate will take, it is just not easier to do it that way? At this point, I am not sure which way would be best. Appreciate the info.

ted_b · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 01:50 pm »

My recommednation continues to be re-extraction cuz that way you automagically grab whatever tags are on the ISO; lots of your tagging work is then done. I'd just do a search on all your drives for "*.ISO", then collect 20 at a time and do the extractions, then move them back off...but that's me. Also, Audiogate can tend to add clicks at the end of tracks for some DACs to pick up (my theory, not fully substantiated).

Phil A · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 02:14 pm »

Quote from: ted_b on 18 Mar 2013, 01:50 pm

My recommednation continues to be re-extraction cuz that way you automagically grab whatever tags are on the ISO; lots of your tagging work is then done. I'd just do a search on all your drives for "*.ISO", then collect 20 at a time and do the extractions, then move them back off...but that's me. Also, Audiogate can tend to add clicks at the end of tracks for some DACs to pick up (my theory, not fully substantiated).

Ted, thanks. It's time consuming what i was trying and I was going to pick up this weekend again but 20 or so ISOs at a time might be the better way to go as you suggest. I might just be able to copy ISOs of a particular genre into a folder on the PC and do it that way too. I have the extract folders (might need to move it closer to the root drive for classical). I also have a 4TB external drive I just got and I did throw most of the ISOs on it as back-up of the ISOs. I also did start but not finish (did maybe 60%) putting the ISOs on Blu-Rays (before I decided to get the 4TB hard drive as I have most of the ISOs on another 3TB hard drive) and have those so copying the 6-10 on each Blu-Ray into a folder on the PC and extracting would also be doable. It sounds like that may be the best way to so. Once I'm done it will be nice. It is just lots of files not done in the same place with the same organization and it's tough.

Tyson · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 03:30 pm »

I've been doing DFF in my setup because it sounds better. But, I need to re-test with galusha's new flacWaveLoader to see if I get better results with DSF, because DSF is certainly nicer from a tagging standpoint.

Phil A · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 03:52 pm »

Quote from: Tyson on 18 Mar 2013, 03:30 pm

I've been doing DFF in my setup because it sounds better. But, I need to re-test with galusha's new flacWaveLoader to see if I get better results with DSF, because DSF is certainly nicer from a tagging standpoint.

Tyson, are you listening to DSD converted to PCM then? I do that with JRiver on the PC since I use the sound card (MAudio192). In the main system they are fed into the Meitner MA-1 dAC.

Tyson · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 03:55 pm »

Yep, DSD is converted to PCM via SoX in Foobar.

Phil A · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 04:04 pm »

I've not compared anything. While I have nice speakers for the PC (Mobile Fidelity OML-1s), I don't do (although I can) serious listening. Most of the time I use the speakers it is for internet radio while I surf. I'm going to try to give Ted's solution a shot this coming weekend. I don't mind tagging a couple of dozen DFF files if I don't have the ISOs but it would make it easier long term. Probably after I move at some point, I'll likely end up with at least one more DSD DAC in at least one secondary system at some point. It took me about a week to figure out what was going on that I seemed to be pulling up the files with JRiver but could not see the albums in the library.

ted_b · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 05:27 pm »

Quote from: Tyson on 18 Mar 2013, 03:30 pm

I've been doing DFF in my setup because it sounds better. But, I need to re-test with galusha's new flacWaveLoader to see if I get better results with DSF, because DSF is certainly nicer from a tagging standpoint.

With all due respect, DFF is not a different format, so it cannot sound different. It is simply a different container, with smaller header. There is no different sound processing.

Russtafarian · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 06:16 pm »

I gotta back Ted up on DSF vs. DFF. When I extracted my multi-channel files for playback in Foobar, I started with DFF. With no tagging and the crazy inconsistent metadata imbedded in the SACD iso, finding and playing files with apple remote was really frustrating. I bit the bullet, reextracted all MC programs as DSF and tagged them in Jriver. Now searching and playing the files with Foobar & Apple Remote is smooth and easy. 400+ multi-channel albums at my fingertips.

Russ

Phil A · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 08:29 pm »

Quote from: Russtafarian on 18 Mar 2013, 06:16 pm

I gotta back Ted up on DSF vs. DFF. When I extracted my multi-channel files for playback in Foobar, I started with DFF. With no tagging and the crazy inconsistent metadata imbedded in the SACD iso, finding and playing files with apple remote was really frustrating. I bit the bullet, reextracted all MC programs as DSF and tagged them in Jriver. Now searching and playing the files with Foobar & Apple Remote is smooth and easy. 400+ multi-channel albums at my fingertips.

Russ

I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and try the same thing. Does it make sense to continue getting cover art either through JRiver or other sources on the internet? I assume I can still use that after I replace the DFF files with DSF?

ted_b · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Mar 2013, 08:52 pm »

I would say that 90% of my DSF extractions have cover art already in place via JRiver. I have JRiver's coverart settings at basic defaults.

Here is a DSD custom view, with my cover art settings