Synchro-Mesh reclocker reviews

paul79 · « **Reply #120 on:** 26 Feb 2013, 06:46 am »

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80647.msg1192009#msg1192009

audioengr · « **Reply #121 on:** 26 Feb 2013, 08:37 pm »

I have the SR3-12 prototype here and I have been testing it. I have made some changes to it to optimize for driving SM and OR5 including a different umbilical. It is truly magical now. Yet another performance milestone just when I thought it could not get much better.

I am in talks with Paul Hynes about the OEM arrangement and the mods I want. I may end-up purchasing the stuffed board and do the final assembly here and put it in an Empirical Audio chassis. I prefer to have it match my cabinetry if that works for Paul. If not, I still would like the mods in it, a special version for EA.

Steve N.

liddown · « **Reply #122 on:** 26 Feb 2013, 08:46 pm »

Steve,

Would you consider a mod program for existing SR3-12's?

audioengr · « **Reply #123 on:** 27 Feb 2013, 01:59 am »

Quote from: liddown on 26 Feb 2013, 08:46 pm

Steve,

Would you consider a mod program for existing SR3-12's?

Possible if I can get some help. My original cable builder moved back to town and he wants to help me. First order of business is to get the Final Drive going. He will probably only be available to help me one day a week.

Steve N.

serengetiplains · « **Reply #124 on:** 27 Feb 2013, 02:26 am »

Awesome, Steve. My experience likewise here.

path73 · « **Reply #125 on:** 27 Feb 2013, 08:40 pm »

Quote from: audioengr on 26 Feb 2013, 08:37 pm

I have the SR3-12 prototype here and I have been testing it. I have made some changes to it to optimize for driving SM and OR5 including a different umbilical. It is truly magical now. Yet another performance milestone just when I thought it could not get much better.

I am in talks with Paul Hynes about the OEM arrangement and the mods I want. I may end-up purchasing the stuffed board and do the final assembly here and put it in an Empirical Audio chassis. I prefer to have it match my cabinetry if that works for Paul. If not, I still would like the mods in it, a special version for EA.

Steve N.

Steve,
Now you really get me interested... I believe the stock SR3 is already pure magic!
Did you make it respond even faster or lower the noise floor further?
How big would you rate the step between your modded SR3 and the stock SR3, compared to the step between the stock SR3 and your switching supply?
/patrick

audioengr · « **Reply #126 on:** 28 Feb 2013, 01:20 am »

Quote from: path73 on 27 Feb 2013, 08:40 pm

Steve,
Now you really get me interested... I believe the stock SR3 is already pure magic!
Did you make it respond even faster or lower the noise floor further?
How big would you rate the step between your modded SR3 and the stock SR3, compared to the step between the stock SR3 and your switching supply?
/patrick

I found the stock SR3 to be only marginally better than the wall-wart. The modded one is significantly better and beats my Monolith and Substation as well.

I will probably not be modding existing Hynes supplies. My helper is not available enough and I dont have time for mods anymore. I will be developing a new EA supply using a new Hynes module. Due to the changes and different chassis and front panels, it will likely be more expensive than the Hynes version. It will be available only as an option for OR5 and SM or if an existing customer wants to upgrade. I will not be selling supplies only on the website.

Steve N.

audioengr · « **Reply #127 on:** 3 Mar 2013, 06:59 pm »

Here is an interesting study. I finally replaced my kludge for my GHz scope with a true 75 ohm termination plug-in, so I'm able to get really accurate picture of the signal from S/PDIF or I2S from SM or OR5. This plug-in was really expensive, almost as much as a new smaller scope.

What I discovered is that putting a "stub" on the SM output helps reduce jitter. Depending on the stub, jitter can drop from 500psec to 150psec. Big change, and I can hear it in the focus when playing music. A typical stub would be a 75 ohm BNC to RCA adapter on the BNC output plug when using the RCA output plug with a cable. Adding another RCA connector to the BNC adapter with no cable or a really short cable like 2" can even improve things.

How this works with your system depends on your cable and DAC, but it is worth experimenting with if you are a tweaker.

I have these BNC to RCA adapters, so I can sell them for $10 each. Just PayPal me at nugent@empiricalaudio.com if you want to try it.

Steve N.

paul79 · « **Reply #128 on:** 3 Mar 2013, 07:31 pm »

That is interesting...

Are you saying put the adapter on the BNC output of the SM, leave it float with no cable, then put the digital cable on the RCA output of the SM? Or put the cable on the adapter?

Would a RCA to BNC adapter on the RCA output of the SM do the same thing? So I could still use the BNC output to the DAC?

andrewd01 · « **Reply #129 on:** 3 Mar 2013, 07:34 pm »

Quote from: audioengr on 28 Feb 2013, 01:20 am

I found the stock SR3 to be only marginally better than the wall-wart. The modded one is significantly better and beats my Monolith and Substation as well.

I will probably not be modding existing Hynes supplies. My helper is not available enough and I dont have time for mods anymore. I will be developing a new EA supply using a new Hynes module. Due to the changes and different chassis and front panels, it will likely be more expensive than the Hynes version. It will be available only as an option for OR5 and SM or if an existing customer wants to upgrade. I will not be selling supplies only on the website.

Steve N.

Great news! I have been interested in getting the best possible power supply for my OR4.
I will order one from you as soon as they are ready.

On a slightly diffent topic, Paul offers a multi-rail power supply that can drive a Mac Mini (I have 2011 model modded for external 12V DC power supply) plus an Offramp, plus a SM etc. It would be awesome to have an EA modded version of this!

audioengr · « **Reply #130 on:** 3 Mar 2013, 07:38 pm »

Quote from: paul79 on 3 Mar 2013, 07:31 pm

That is interesting...

Would a RCA to BNC adapter on the RCA output of the SM do the same thing?

Also, are you saying put the adapter on the BNC output of the SM, then put the digital cable on the RCA output of the SM? Or put the cable on the adapter?

Ive tried it both ways, so yes. Cable and stub are separate.

audioengr · « **Reply #131 on:** 3 Mar 2013, 07:39 pm »

Quote from: andrewd01 on 3 Mar 2013, 07:34 pm

Great news! I have been interested in getting the best possible power supply for my OR4.
I will order one from you as soon as they are ready.

On a slightly diffent topic, Paul offers a multi-rail power supply that can drive a Mac Mini (I have 2011 model modded for external 12V DC power supply) plus an Offramp, plus a SM etc. It would be awesome to have an EA modded version of this!

Actually, I plan to offer a Mini supply also, I think it is better to keep these separate.

paul79 · « **Reply #132 on:** 3 Mar 2013, 07:42 pm »

Steve, I revised my post a little, but I believe I have the answer... Thanks!

andrewd01 · « **Reply #133 on:** 3 Mar 2013, 09:24 pm »

Quote from: audioengr on 3 Mar 2013, 07:39 pm

Actually, I plan to offer a Mini supply also, I think it is better to keep these separate.

Great! I understand that the early mac mini versions (which already had external DC power supply) need 18V, but my modded 2011 needs 12V. Will you make versions for both voltages?

FatherVic · « **Reply #134 on:** 3 Mar 2013, 10:54 pm »

I've recently came across this device which I found interesting but I'm starting to tear my hair out at my upgrade options...
I've got a little Sonos which I love but I would like to achieve a higher quality sound. My options are either to go down a DAC route or just replace the Sonos.
With a gadget like this on board, how good a transport does the Sonos become?
People's experiences appear to be good but comparisons are limited and some more feedback would be appreciated.

Quote from: audioengr on 3 Mar 2013, 06:59 pm

What I discovered is that putting a "stub" on the SM output helps reduce jitter. Depending on the stub, jitter can drop from 500psec to 150psec.

Can I ask what was being played to generate that level of jitter? I'm assuming that was more of a 'test level' to experiment with than what the SM is meant to be putting out?

Also, if I were to order one to the UK, can somebody tell me if I'd be hit with any import duties?

Cheers

audioengr · « **Reply #135 on:** 4 Mar 2013, 01:00 am »

Quote from: FatherVic on 3 Mar 2013, 10:54 pm

I've recently came across this device which I found interesting but I'm starting to tear my hair out at my upgrade options...
I've got a little Sonos which I love but I would like to achieve a higher quality sound. My options are either to go down a DAC route or just replace the Sonos.
With a gadget like this on board, how good a transport does the Sonos become?
People's experiences appear to be good but comparisons are limited and some more feedback would be appreciated.

See the reviews here:

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/news-and-reviews/synchro-mesh

Quote

Can I ask what was being played to generate that level of jitter? I'm assuming that was more of a 'test level' to experiment with than what the SM is meant to be putting out?

I was actually playing some Bonnie Raitt live. The difference was focused vocalist versus 3-D vocalist popping out of the background.

Quote

Also, if I were to order one to the UK, can somebody tell me if I'd be hit with any import duties?

I declare $599 on it.

Steve N.

audioengr · « **Reply #136 on:** 4 Mar 2013, 01:11 am »

I made some jitter spread measurements. These are total jitter histograms.

With older wall-wart:

With latest wall-wart:

with Hynes supply:

Seems to get narrower with each one, validating the listening experience. The bulk of the jitter is in the 150-200 psec range. The tails show it as high as 600psec, but very few events occur like this. This is not average or RMS jitter. This is peak jitter.

The nominal measurement is for 24/96 timing, 81.38 nsec.

ozzy · « **Reply #137 on:** 4 Mar 2013, 04:56 pm »

Steve,
Four tweak, are you saying to use a 75 ohm shorting plug?
I have them in BNC.

ozzy · « **Reply #138 on:** 4 Mar 2013, 04:57 pm »

Steve,
For your tweak, are you saying to use a 75 ohm shorting plug?
I have them in BNC.

JBNY · « **Reply #139 on:** 4 Mar 2013, 05:00 pm »

So how does your method of measuring jitter differ from say Stereophile. I ask because when you throw out your jitter numbers they are much higher than when I have seen published for the digital output of other device, for example the sonos was measured having jitter of 388 picoseconds peak–peak which they consider low.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/sonos-zp80-zp100-wifi-music-system-measurements