Felicia Balancing PowerConditioner Constructor's Thread

sl_1800 · « **Reply #400 on:** 13 Feb 2007, 04:59 pm »

I was going to build this project last winter, ordered the caps, fuses and such, but MPJA was out of the transformers. I had since forgotten about it but ran across those parts yesterday and ordered the transformers again from MPJA and they are on their way. The bad thing about MPJA is the shipping, they are charging me nearly 20 dollars for Priority Mail !!!!!

sl_1800 · « **Reply #401 on:** 16 Feb 2007, 11:52 pm »

I put together, quickly, my Felecia today. A bad ground will sure cause a lot of bad measurements !!!! Now all is correct and I'm going to do some listening to see if I can hear the difference. This has been fun relearning my electronics, college educated but not used in many years, what is not used is forgotten.

Gordy · « **Reply #402 on:** 17 Feb 2007, 12:26 am »

Congratulations sl_1800! Care to share which caps you used and where? Please get back with your listening impressions, thanks!

DonnieW · « **Reply #403 on:** 25 Feb 2007, 08:13 pm »

Not a big fan of shoebox/wood box installations, I chose to make use of a dead UPS. These can be had for peanuts and already have provisions for power in/out. I decided to upgrade the caps to Auricaps. I also upgraded the receptacle to a Hubbell HG one.

Transformer on the left is the input trannie...

Only the Hubbell (beige) receptacle is active...

That's the frontside of what used to be an APC 700 SmartUPS...

Here's a close-up of a really important part - the fuse. There's actually three, as recommended. One on the hot-in and one each on the two outputs (hot and neutral)...

ospenser · « **Reply #404 on:** 22 Mar 2007, 01:50 am »

sounds like i need to resize the transformers (they call em chokes in the uk, VAGUELY remember that stuff) (and therefore resize everytning) . I got alot of reading to do here, but just an "early warning" - and a buddy Russ who has forgotten more about AC and HIFI than i'll EVER know!!

here's what russ told me - i've yet to decipher it completely but i'm close!!

If you can afford it get one big ass balanced power transformer for all the analog gear. I think you amp’s current draw will be too high to allow the use of Jon’s filter in front of the transformer but if you can use it, so much the better. Then for each and every piece of digital gear (or anything that has a switching power supply like the TV), use separate individual isolation transformers. Those rat shack trannys are quite wimpy. I use ones made by signal. I do use the back to back setup but I don’t think it is necessary and it does more than double the cost. But you do want separate individual ones. I use one balanced power transformer that in turn feeds all the individual trannys for digital (but I don’t think this is required either). Use Jon’s filter ahead of each digital transformer. So if you have a CD, DVD, DAC, TV, etc…..you will need several transformers.

For the balanced power I use standard 480/240 by 240/120 single phase transformers. Wire the primary for 480 but feed it 240. Wire the secondary for 240 and ground the X2/X3 center tap point. This will give you 60-0-60VAC out. The transformer will be de-rated by 50% when wired this way and I suggest twice the volt amps required. So the transformer needs to be four times the actual load. It really is best to use 240VAC from the wall as that is already balanced power.

but i'll get back to yall. I'm a believer in power conditioning too, i HEARD it first hand - amazing!!

Mike

ospenser · « **Reply #405 on:** 23 Mar 2007, 02:10 am »

Yeah this baby takes 540VA at rest and 1140VA max. That's OK, my eye-opening experience was when the CD player (music hall) was powered by a JR filter. So guess I'll be shooting for these for everything BUT the amp until i go ALL tube or brainstorm it with my techie buddy Russ.

Christopher Witmer · « **Reply #406 on:** 24 Mar 2007, 07:34 am »

An acquaintance and I recently discussed the Felicia BPC and he was telling me that it would be useful even without grounding. I was under the impression that without grounding the benefits would not be realized. What's the deal? Thanks!

Occam · « **Reply #407 on:** 24 Mar 2007, 03:17 pm »

Hey Christopher,

Long time no hear.....
Yes, I'd agree with your friend. The principal benefit of the Felicia conditioner, like the Jon Risch SQ&D Iso Trans project upon which the Felicia was based -
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tweaks&m=43988
is power conditioning. Specifically, its very effective at eliminating differential (transverse) mode noise, in addition to attenuating the easier to deal with common mode noise.
The benefits of making the conditioner provide balanced (technical) power are real for components that have a grounded chassis (they're also there for certain other components without 3 prong grounded plugs whose chassis are grounded to other components via various circuitous routes). Specifically, that benefit is minimization of reactive leakage currents to the chassis which causes noise, and in its most extreme form, ground loop hum.
The rational behind Felicia was the availability of those surplus $10 Signal A41 175va transformers which made the construction of a balanced conditioner for source components inexpensive and straightforward, albeit bulky.
Very good conditioners can be constructed based upon either transformers or inductors, with both working in conjunction with capacitors.

FWIW,
Paul

robert1325 · « **Reply #408 on:** 24 Mar 2007, 03:48 pm »

Hey, I've listened to my dads MIT z-cords, very simple power cords with inline filters, I have to say that it all sounded so much better with these hooked up to the trends ta-10 and the SB !

Would this project be doable for a DIY NOOB like me? I live in the Netherlands so power is 240 v here.... If not, can anyone recommend some cheap balanced power conditioners, supplies ?

Thanks

Robert

JoshK · « **Reply #409 on:** 24 Mar 2007, 04:36 pm »

if one were to search, google is your friend, one might find discussion where folks have sketched out a pretty good idea of what the mit chords were doing. you could give it a shot and compare to the real thing.

Gordy · « **Reply #410 on:** 24 Mar 2007, 04:43 pm »

Or you could do a search here for "Felix" and build a very nice in-line conditioner for a power cord. Much smaller, lighter and less expensive than the Felicia's.

Occam · « **Reply #411 on:** 24 Mar 2007, 06:36 pm »

li'l Felix in a custom RhatShaque enclosure with custom cable ties on the inside and outside securing a halved Volex 17604 powercord. Tres elegant!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=37673.msg341987#msg341987

Christopher Witmer · « **Reply #412 on:** 26 Mar 2007, 03:27 am »

The above is the mains input, voltage selector switch and power supply transformer of the Rythmik Audio subwoofer amplifier, which can be used at either 110-120 or 220-240VAC. The VA rating of this transformer depends on the particular model, but mine (350W) is rated at 700VA. Given the dual 110V primary windings of this tranny, rather than running the amplifier off a scaled-up conventional Felicia, it seems to me that it would make sense to eliminate one of the trannies in the Felicia . . .

I think there would be pluses and minuses versus running off a conventional Felicia. On the one hand, since every transformer has a bit of mechanical self-noise and power losses as heat, eliminating one hefty transformer from the picture obviously has some benefits in that dept.

On the other hand, I think one of the benefits of preventing any noise from escaping *out* to the mains might be reduced or lost if one of the transformers was eliminated.

I've got transformers coming out the ears so I could use more if there are genuine benefits, but there's no point in using more trannies just for the sake of using 'em . . .

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Occam · « **Reply #413 on:** 26 Mar 2007, 05:10 pm »

Hi Christopher,

Given that you're in Japan, are any of your outlets grounded? If not, and none of your components have their chassis connected to a mains ground, you don't have the potential problem of reactive leakage to your chassis inducing noise/hum into your system, and the incremental benefits of balanced mains, as opposed to simply configuring you transformers for isolation, are moot.

When I've powered full range poweramps off transformers, the results have allways been mixed, even when using a massive transformer like a 7kva Signal DU7. The bass has been the the area of greatest improvement, with better definition, but the midrange has generally lost a certain sumth'n, sumth'n. But as you're talking about powering a sub, and you have the transformers, I'd say give it a try.

The advantage of cascading transformers is generally increased common mode noise attenuation, and with the addition of those 'betwixt and between' caps, additional transverse/differential mode noise attenuation. (and in the case of the Felicia project, it was using those low cost, surplus 28v secondary transformers arse to arse to get an balanced isolation transformer). As you know that your sub already has a transformer, I'd suggest you start with one isolation transformer, and play with appropriate additional caps 'betwixt and between', and make a judgement as to whether it offers a subjective improvement. If a single additional transformer doesn't offer worthwhile improvements, I doubt whether an additional cascaded transformer would improve the situation. If the single additional transformer does offer significant improvements, then you can decide if you want to add the hassle of another....

FWIW,
Paul

Christopher Witmer · « **Reply #414 on:** 26 Mar 2007, 11:45 pm »

Thanks, Paul, for your kind reply. At present I have two areas with grounded outlets in my Japanese house: in the kitchen and in the clothes washing area. And even then not all the outlets are grounded.

I have been so busy with work that my efforts to clean up my house's power supply problems have been put on the back burner, but essentially I am still where I was last time I was posting regularly in this thread --

My house's mains supply tends to be noisy, with appliances in the house often disturbing each other, and problems seemingly originating from outside the house affecting inside the house. It is hard to prove, but I think various computer problems and (what seem to me to be) premature deaths of various appliances are connected with the poor quality of the electricity. In addition to that I get funky ground loop problems with certain pieces of AV equipment that I'd like to use together.

I have been thinking of having a separate circuit installed off the main breaker box just for my audio equipment, and maybe one line for my main computer too, and I just assumed that I ought to install and use ground wires with them.

But let me ask you, from the perspective of audio, is grounding desirable, or does it depend on circumstances? Although my outlets are all two-prong only, and I don't have ground wires hooked up, I find it funny that can hear a hum that sounds like a ground loop. However, testing the equipment on some of the few grounded outlets in my house didn't make any difference in that regard. It even occurs to me that the limited grounding my house does have may be pretty substandard. Legendary Japanese quality does not extend to their home construction.

Basically my thinking is that I would try to have balanced power or at least isolation transformers for significant pieces of electrical equipment throughout my house (significant either as sources of noise or as devices that need to be protected from noise), and that perhaps I should try to establish a "technical ground" for my audio equipment. As you know I have amassed quite a few trannies of various types that will let me do that.

In any case, doing things in incremental steps would seem to be the best way to go. If I get to a point where all my problems disappear, I won't do anything more . . . I won't even breathe . . .

By the way, thanks for your reply to this earlier post:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=23874.msg211399#msg211399

I either failed to notice that or completely forgot about it. I have a good use in mind for that trannie . . .

When I actually do some of this stuff rather than beating around the bush I will definitely document each stage properly and put it online for others to benefit from. And when I do, I'll probably seek your opinion as to the appropriateness of the content and my presentation . . . don't want to see anyone zapping himself over this sort of stuff . . . least of all me . . .

exxtreme · « **Reply #415 on:** 3 Apr 2007, 11:39 am »

Thanks a lot to Occam and all that gave me help! Some photos of it. Finished my power cond and has been running for 3 mths now so the photos are a bit overdue

Photos now unavailable.

FYI using Solen cap, not the best choice as they are not self healing i think. But works

Don't try without fuses.

Occam · « **Reply #416 on:** 3 Apr 2007, 01:10 pm »

Wow! DonnieW's and Exxtreme's implementation of their Felicias makes me wish my own build skills were better.

Very, very well done!

Christopher Witmer · « **Reply #417 on:** 7 Apr 2007, 05:09 am »

In addition to a few conventional Felicia units, I am planning a Feliciazilla for my three power amplifiers.

Would there be any serious drawbacks to having a distance of about 3m between the "feeding" transformer (1:1, 2kva) and the output side balancing transformers? The "feeding" transformer is 28cm (11 inches) tall, and I'd like to have it out of sight in one corner of the room, hard-wired into the wall.

The balancing transformers on the output side are all less than half the height of the "feeding" transformer, and will fit nicely in my equipment rack. The whole thing would have much better WAF if I could have the two halves of the Feliciazilla separated by 3m.

Alternately, I also have another candidate "feeding" transformer that would fit nicely in my equipment rack too, but it is of lower quality than the big one that won't fit.

If I have a run of 3m of cable between the two halves of the Felicia, what precautions (if any) are called for?

THANKS!

Occam · « **Reply #418 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 06:00 pm »

Christopher - As you're dealing with isolating/balancing transformers, why not start with the lesser height balancing transformer first, and feed it your mains power directly. Then, If you find it does not constrain dynamics and provides other benefits, you could then experiment with that isolating transformer feeding it. Start simple, and get more complicated only if it provides incremental benefits. As you're using ungrounded mains as per your electrical codes, use a twisted pair or star-quad configured cords (due to their higher capacitance, low inductance design, as well as their ability to 'reject' some external noise). Connect any 'betwixt and between' X caps at the load end.

Christopher Witmer · « **Reply #419 on:** 11 Apr 2007, 05:16 am »

The above image is from a Japanese DIYer. I pasted English translations over his labels in the image. Here is my translation of his explanation:

"Ground polarity discriminating power supply transformer"
Without turning off the connected equipment, the power supply polarity can be freely switched among normal phase (voltage relative to GND: 0V - 100V), reverse phase (voltage relative to GND: 100V - 0V), balanced (voltage relative to GND: 50V - 50V), and floating (voltage relative to GND: indeterminate). Because the power is not turned off, the effect on the sound of instantaneous changes in earth polarity can be easily discriminated with minimal effort. The unit is built around a 1:1 isolation transformer with electrostatic shielding. The input is 100VAC and the output is 100VAC/2.5A (continuous). The unit can safely tolerate short-term peak current draws of up to 5A/500VA. At the heart of the unit is a high quality dual-wound power supply transformer taken from a Kenwood L-08M power amplifier, which in its day was a fairly high-end piece of equipment. As a noise-cut transformer, it can prevent common-mode high-frequency noise and power supply noise, and therefore it is appropriate not only for testing but also for use on a permanent basis, as long as the power draw of the attached equipment does not exceed the transformer's rated capacity. It has a 5A fuse. The box measures 20cm x 20cm x 10cm and weighs 6kg. (Most of the weight is in the transformer.)

Here is another photo:

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be possible to make a Felicia unit that functions along these lines. I'd really like to build one . . . any advice or help would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Chris