M3TM with 300B 8-Watter

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jachinboazicus

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M3TM with 300B 8-Watter
« on: 1 Nov 2021, 06:08 pm »
Wondering if anyone on the forum has experience driving the M3TM's with an 8-watt 300B tube amp?

I know next to nothing about transistor amps, so let me preface this Q with that.

More details on the amp:
300b amp that has mesh plate px 25
8 watter

Some pics:





A friend is offering me a great deal, and I've always wanted to add some tube gear to my 2.0 rig. I've had headphone tube amps, but I've only used a Marantz 4300, and my current Schiit Vidar (x2) and MiniDSP SHD with my Spatials.

Is this amp a good pairing for the M3TM's?

Will I be severely disappointed with the 8-watts compared to the other solid state rigs I've had? Is an 8-watt tube amp enough to push the M3TM's?

Also, any thoughts on what a 300B like this should sell for?

Thanks in advance.

doggie

Re: M3TM with 300B 8-Watter
« Reply #1 on: 1 Nov 2021, 10:09 pm »
It depends. 8 watts of quality SE tube power could work well in a modest room if the Spatials are ~93db to 97db+.

If you already have the Spatials I would just try it. Otherwise it will depend upon the efficiency of the Spatials and the quality of the Chinese made tube amp, which are often made to meet a pretty low price point. The transformers are usually the weak link.


mick wolfe

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Re: M3TM with 300B 8-Watter
« Reply #2 on: 2 Nov 2021, 05:43 pm »
As perhaps a distant comparison, but my friend had M4 Triode Masters a few years back. His two amps at that time were the LM 219ia. (24 watt 845 based SET) and 200 watt per channel amp hybrid amp. For some reason, be it the M4's impedance curve or whatever, the  200 watt hybrid amp was simply a better match. As always, YMMV but my guess is that your Vidars will be a better fit. That 8 watter would probably be a fun amp and a better fit for Zu's or the Klipsch Heritage line-up.

mick wolfe

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Re: M3TM with 300B 8-Watter
« Reply #3 on: 2 Nov 2021, 08:52 pm »
FWIW, the hybrid amp mentioned above was an LSA integrated.

Mr. Big

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Re: M3TM with 300B 8-Watter
« Reply #4 on: 2 Nov 2021, 11:12 pm »
My amp on M3's shows anywhere from 10 watts with peaks at 40 watts, I would go with an amp with a strong power supply of 60 watts so handle dynamic swings with ease and good bottom-end. 

sebrof

Re: M3TM with 300B 8-Watter
« Reply #5 on: 2 Nov 2021, 11:55 pm »
The transformers are usually the weak link.
Agreed. I have the same single ended 2A3 amp that I tried 3 different output transformer pairs in and they all sounded very different.
The potted transformers (like in the pic) are tricky because you don't know what is in there

geerock

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Re: M3TM with 300B 8-Watter
« Reply #6 on: 3 Nov 2021, 03:55 am »
A great tube amp for those speakers is the Don Sachs Valhalla integrated.  6sn7 signal tubes and a whole variant of power tubes will fit in there.  32 watts of high quality sonic bliss.  The transformer set in that thing is one of the best.
If you're looking for a value tube amp, the Carver Crimson 275 will give you all the power you need at 75 watts.  It's no Valhalla but, with the right pre it should be considered at under 3k bucks.  Spatials love tubes.

paolocaminiti

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Re: M3TM with 300B 8-Watter
« Reply #7 on: 6 Nov 2021, 02:05 am »
Just try it.
I run my m3 turbo s - not triode master - with a chep chinese 300b amp from PSVANE, now out of production it was probably a bargain at its time.
I tried 50w class a from Forte, 700w of class d from icepower and others, a benchmark abh2 and other amps. Yes more powerful amps drive them better and dig lower, but my 300b is now definitely back in the system cause it is just so much more musical especially with jazz. The other amps will suprise for a few days, make me think they are a better match, but everytime I swapped back the 300b it has been so clear that something fundamental was lost for me.

Yours being triode master should do a lot better then mine, so it's totally worth trying and remember that the tube itself (psvane makes some affordable ones that are step ups from the usual stock models) has big role in how much refined and alive it will sound.

As others mentioned the transformers play a big role, indeed I contacted Line Magnetic asking if they would suggest their 845 or 300b for a 94db speaker with a very difficult load and they answered that if I was looking for ultimate musicality their 300b would be the best choice as their transformers would go a long way in driving the difficult load. I then decided not to buy the amps and I'm saving to upgrade the speakers instead (too bad spatialaudio is a difficult buy from Europe).

Daryl Zero

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Re: M3TM with 300B 8-Watter
« Reply #8 on: 6 Nov 2021, 04:26 am »
A great tube amp for those speakers is the Don Sachs Valhalla integrated.  6sn7 signal tubes and a whole variant of power tubes will fit in there.  32 watts of high quality sonic bliss.  The transformer set in that thing is one of the best.
If you're looking for a value tube amp, the Carver Crimson 275 will give you all the power you need at 75 watts.  It's no Valhalla but, with the right pre it should be considered at under 3k bucks.  Spatials love tubes.

Don Sachs' website says he's only making 10 of them. I've ordered one but it won't be ready until Spring. A member here (TomS, I believe) had one but decided he liked the LTA better and sold the Valhalla  Integrated here. I'm not going to be able to make such comparisons and I've done research that makes me trust Don Sachs plus it is a more simple and cost effective hopefully end-game amp.

geerock

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Re: M3TM with 300B 8-Watter
« Reply #9 on: 6 Nov 2021, 02:05 pm »
Don will produce them as long as people will wait.  I have his all in preamp along with the LTA Reference 40 plus and it is a stunning combination with my X5's.  In fact I just recently swapped out the 6sn7 tubes in the pre with a quad of Linlai elite series 6sn7's and brought it up another level.

Daryl Zero

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Re: M3TM with 300B 8-Watter
« Reply #10 on: 6 Nov 2021, 03:25 pm »
I know we're off topic a bit but I don't have experience with tube amps and so how do y'all figure out which tube or tube maker is best/better etc?

geerock

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Re: M3TM with 300B 8-Watter
« Reply #11 on: 6 Nov 2021, 05:06 pm »
I know we're off topic a bit but I don't have experience with tube amps and so how do y'all figure out which tube or tube maker is best/better etc?

Been with tubes for decades and the manufacturers of new tubes these days are ok, but I've never had a new tube ever be able to stand up to the sound of NOS or some of the elite reproductions that are starting to be produced.  Not even close.  The benefit is immediate and obvious.  And the lifespan is also greatly reduced.  NOS tubes can last 8 to 10k hours.  New stuff you might get 2500 hours.  You have to understand that most of the tubes made in days gone by were made for the military.  Radars.  Radios.  Things like that.  They had to be built to last.  Who knew years later that some of these tubes would be so sublime in audio equipment.
« Last Edit: 6 Nov 2021, 09:29 pm by geerock »

Daryl Zero

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Re: M3TM with 300B 8-Watter
« Reply #12 on: 6 Nov 2021, 09:30 pm »
I guess I got to go to tube school.