[Denton J]

I'm waiting for something like a wmtmw or mtm design specifically designed to pair with doubles or triples but small enough to place on top of the subs.  Yes, I realize I'm asking a lot.

[mlundy57]

I'm waiting for something like a wmtmw or mtm design specifically designed to pair with doubles or triples but small enough to place on top of the subs.  Yes, I realize I'm asking a lot.

That's basically the Wedgie




On top of triple 8" OB subs in a wedge base



On top of Dual 12" OB subs in a wedge base



On top of triple 8" OB subs in H-Frame



If you use larger drivers for the woofer and midrange like in the NX-Otica, the tweeter would be way too high when placed on top of dual OB H-frames, let alone triples. Even the MTM section of the NX-Otica puts the tweeter above ear height when placed on top of dual H-Frames. Adding another large woofer under the bottom NQ driver would raise the tweeter another 7" above ear height. 

[Denton J]

That's basically the Wedgie




On top of triple 8" OB subs in a wedge base



On top of Dual 12" OB subs in a wedge base



On top of triple 8" OB subs in H-Frame



If you use larger drivers for the woofer and midrange like in the NX-Otica, the tweeter would be way too high when placed on top of dual OB H-frames, let alone triples. Even the MTM section of the NX-Otica puts the tweeter above ear height when placed on top of dual H-Frames. Adding another large woofer under the bottom NQ driver would raise the tweeter another 7" above ear height. 

There are too many options Mike! 

[Tyson]

I doubt that GR will ever build a WMTMW tower design simply because they are selling these as kits and that gets into the 'somewhat too difficult' area for most people.

[BrandonB]

I have been looking for the perfect speakers to go into my area.  I think I'm going with the Otica's or the new 8 in Otica's if I can wait that long.  I am not very handy so I have been hoping and trying  to catch a pair on the used market but I have come to the conclusion that the NX-Otica must be the best speaker because you hardly ever see them for sale. I have seen NX-Studios, LS6's LS9's but not the Otiica's. 

[Tyson]

I think you are right, the Otica is a pretty special speaker.  I never thought I'd like another speaker as much as I like my Super 7's, but the Oticas are right up there.  They are different though.  The 7's are more like a Porsche (nimble but powerful) while the Oticas are more like Corvettes (powerful and blazing fast).

[ebag4]

I'm waiting for something like a wmtmw or mtm design specifically designed to pair with doubles or triples but small enough to place on top of the subs.  Yes, I realize I'm asking a lot.

The MTM section of the Oticas sound pretty great on top of a pair of servos in H frame.  I was at Axpona this year and heard very few speakers that sounded as good, of course they aren’t set up optimally at a show but the Oticas sound “right” to my ears, YMMV.  This is my pair.



Best of luck with your search,
Ed

[Denton J]

The MTM section of the Oticas sound pretty great on top of a pair of servos in H frame.  I was at Axpona this year and heard very few speakers that sounded as good, of course they aren’t set up optimally at a show but the Oticas sound “right” to my ears, YMMV.  This is my pair.



Best of luck with your search,
Ed

I like how you made the top fit on the below servo subs.

[ebag4]

I like how you made the top fit on the below servo subs.

Thanks, that section also houses the crossover.



FWIW, I increased the H frame depth 1.5” total (3/4” each bay) to match the MTM depth.  Technically this reduces the upper frequencies the sub can reach but they easily reach the MTMs lower frequencies and present a seamless integration .

Best,
Ed

[jmimac351]

The main issue with this design is that each 16-ohm NQ woofer needs about 2-3x this airspace even for a sealed box, (ideally, 5.0 cubic feet, per woofer) so in tower form, it would have to be pretty massive, and would still only have a -3dB of ~60Hz, with a roughly 94dB efficiency. (you can push the box size down a bit, ~3 cu.ft. You'll bump up around 100Hz with an little earlier roll-off.)

@hobbsmeerkat... since it's kinda Bigly... let's go ahead replace the NQ drivers with a pair of M-165/16, make it a floorstander with shared airspace for the woofers via the cavity behind the "V" for the Neo 3 tweeter. Let's make it ~90db efficient, play to ~35Hz, and you don't need stands!

[Hobbsmeerkat]

@hobbsmeerkat... since it's kinda Bigly... let's go ahead replace the NQ drivers with a pair of M-165/16, make it a floorstander with shared airspace for the woofers via the cavity behind the "V" for the Neo 3 tweeter. Let's make it ~90db efficient, play to ~35Hz, and you don't need stands!

That would be about the only plausible option since you're basically making an X-MTM but with the NX Tweeter and waveguide.

[jmimac351]

This "Rank The Top..." notion may be putting the cart before the horse.  For instance, the NX-Treme and Otica speakers are bad speakers... IN MY ROOM.

Everyone reading thru this site / thread likes playing with speakers.  The problem is, the speakers you WANT may not the ones you NEED - no matter how you try to rationalize otherwise.  A better way of "Ranking" might be according to Room / Placement / Overall strategies for achieving performance.

For Instance...

1) Best speaker for close to the front wall and I CAN'T have a sub.

2) Best speaker for close to the front wall and I CAN have a sub (and maybe I have a High Pass filter)

3) Best speaker in "Free Space", but I still cannot have a sub - "Full Range"

4) Best speaker in Free Space, but I can have a sub.

5) Best Speaker to do either close to the wall or in Free Space... without a sub.

6) Best Speaker to use with lower powered amps.

7) Best Speaker that can Hit, Run, Hit for Power... and Pitch... i.e., Pound for Pound... the "MVP Speaker".

The answer(s) to those questions could be things that are rarely discussed.  Things like:

1) X-CS Encore - 90db, Left / Right 2 channel, paired with a sub.  Sealed.  Close to wall OK. Insert High Pass filter and you've got dynamics out the wazoo.

2) X-CS Bravo - 90db, Left / Right 2 channel, paired with a sub. Sealed.  Close to wall OK.  Could the midrange be even better, faster, via smaller drivers than the Encore?  Look at the decay plot on this speaker.  It's badazz.  Hmmm.

3) X-MTM - no sub "needed".  Ship with a pair of Fruit of The Loom socks for plugging the ports when shoved back against the wall.

4) Da Brute.

None of these are the fancy Ferraris... but they could be all you'll ever need.

Which begs the question... the Neo tweeter has limited options for those who can afford, but can't commit a big room / accommodate the setup needed for Otica, et al.  Coming up with an option to have that tweeter in a room / space / wife / workable, "full range" option that doesn't require a sub... it might be a good idea.  Especially when soft domes are on backorder. 

Is the Neo tweeter worth going thru that trouble?... I can't hear it to find out.

[nlitworld]

2) Best speaker for close to the front wall and I CAN have a sub (and maybe I have a High Pass filter)

2) X-CS Bravo - 90db, Left / Right 2 channel, paired with a sub. Sealed.  Close to wall OK.  Could the midrange be even better, faster, via smaller drivers than the Encore?  Look at the decay plot on this speaker.  It's badazz.  Hmmm.

Is the Neo tweeter worth going thru that trouble?... I can't hear it to find out.

Yeah, I can't argue the X-CS is a great speaker, but i will say the NX-Studios have the chameleon ability to play any location and do it even better. Full range or high-pass, SS or tubes, it doesn't matter. Technically in my small room, it doesn't even need a sub as my -3db is about 40hz. I do run 2 svs subs just to even out the room, but I often forget to turn them on. But the icing on the cake is that Neo3 tweeter is so damn good. When you can have a 12x10 listening room that still gives full, and I do mean FULL 3D representation of the music, that's saying something. X-CS is really good, NX-Studios are just that next step further. If and when you do get a chance to hear it, oooh man. 

But yes, I absolutely agree in your notion of matching speaker to surroundings and equipment. I could only imagine the horror of NX-tremes in my room pulled 3ft out from the wall. That would be comical, and likely sound like 💩.  Know your limitations and expectations I guess.

[BrandonB]

This "Rank The Top..." notion may be putting the cart before the horse.  For instance, the NX-Treme and Otica speakers are bad speakers... IN MY ROOM.

Everyone reading thru this site / thread likes playing with speakers.  The problem is, the speakers you WANT may not the ones you NEED - no matter how you try to rationalize otherwise.  A better way of "Ranking" might be according to Room / Placement / Overall strategies for achieving performance.

For Instance...

1) Best speaker for close to the front wall and I CAN'T have a sub.

2) Best speaker for close to the front wall and I CAN have a sub (and maybe I have a High Pass filter)

3) Best speaker in "Free Space", but I still cannot have a sub - "Full Range"

4) Best speaker in Free Space, but I can have a sub.

5) Best Speaker to do either close to the wall or in Free Space... without a sub.

6) Best Speaker to use with lower powered amps.

7) Best Speaker that can Hit, Run, Hit for Power... and Pitch... i.e., Pound for Pound... the "MVP Speaker".

The answer(s) to those questions could be things that are rarely discussed.  Things like:

1) X-CS Encore - 90db, Left / Right 2 channel, paired with a sub.  Sealed.  Close to wall OK. Insert High Pass filter and you've got dynamics out the wazoo.

2) X-CS Bravo - 90db, Left / Right 2 channel, paired with a sub. Sealed.  Close to wall OK.  Could the midrange be even better, faster, via smaller drivers than the Encore?  Look at the decay plot on this speaker.  It's badazz.  Hmmm.

3) X-MTM - no sub "needed".  Ship with a pair of Fruit of The Loom socks for plugging the ports when shoved back against the wall.

4) Da Brute.

None of these are the fancy Ferraris... but they could be all you'll ever need.

Which begs the question... the Neo tweeter has limited options for those who can afford, but can't commit a big room / accommodate the setup needed for Otica, et al.  Coming up with an option to have that tweeter in a room / space / wife / workable, "full range" option that doesn't require a sub... it might be a good idea.  Especially when soft domes are on backorder. 

Is the Neo tweeter worth going thru that trouble?... I can't hear it to find out.

Now this is good stuff!  I seen how great the measurements are for the Bravo.  I haven't heard that particular speaker or the Brute.  I have listened to the encore, NX-studio and NX-treme all with open baffle subs.  Can someone who has heard the Bravo and Brute compare talk about its strengths and how  it sounds next to the encores and NX-series. 

[jmimac351]

Yeah, I can't argue the X-CS is a great speaker, but i will say the NX-Studios have the chameleon ability to play any location and do it even better. Full range or high-pass, SS or tubes, it doesn't matter. Technically in my small room, it doesn't even need a sub as my -3db is about 40hz. I do run 2 svs subs just to even out the room, but I often forget to turn them on. But the icing on the cake is that Neo3 tweeter is so damn good. When you can have a 12x10 listening room that still gives full, and I do mean FULL 3D representation of the music, that's saying something. X-CS is really good, NX-Studios are just that next step further. If and when you do get a chance to hear it, oooh man. 

I think the smart money is a great 2-way paired with subs that can be tuned for the room. The thing is, most 2-way (2 driver) speakers can't play bigger, with ease - they get compressed. Most 2-way speakers won't play to mid-30Hz, period.  I'm running a pair now that do that, with ease, and it's pretty intoxicating - especially considering the flexibility they afford for any room (add subs, if needed).  Even though I've got the subs, the inherent dynamics the speaker delivers just helps it do "the thing". The subs aren't propping the speakers up, they are adding gravy to what's already there.

Maybe the NX-Studio will play with the ease I'd want when incorporating a 100Hz high pass filter.  It's not 90db though / needs more power... And then, there's the X-MTM...

As for flexibility... what if there was a way for this ported / plays bigger with ease to mid-30Hz, Neo Tweeter 2-way to have the tweeter tuned for output with a resistor, depending on boundary reinforcement / taste... push up against a wall (resistor A), pull out from the wall (resistor B).  I have extra cigar boxes that would be a perfect home for the outboard crossovers.

That would be one versatile speaker, with the tweeter that's bragged about.  Maybe that's a Fool's Errand, but it's been interesting to play with.  In fact, I'm using something like that right now:

[BrandonB]

I think the smart money is a great 2-way paired with subs that can be tuned for the room. The thing is, most 2-way (2 driver) speakers can't play bigger, with ease - they get compressed. Most 2-way speakers won't play to mid-30Hz, period.  I'm running a pair now that do that, with ease, and it's pretty intoxicating - especially considering the flexibility they afford for any room (add subs, if needed).  Even though I've got the subs, the inherent dynamics the speaker delivers just helps it do "the thing". The subs aren't propping the speakers up, they are adding gravy to what's already there.

Maybe the NX-Studio will play with the ease I'd want when incorporating a 100Hz high pass filter.  It's not 90db though / needs more power... And then, there's the X-MTM...

As for flexibility... what if there was a way for this ported / plays bigger with ease to mid-30Hz, Neo Tweeter 2-way to have the tweeter tuned for output with a resistor, depending on boundary reinforcement / taste... push up against a wall (resistor A), pull out from the wall (resistor B).  I have extra cigar boxes that would be a perfect home for the outboard crossovers.

That would be one versatile speaker, with the tweeter that's bragged about.  Maybe that's a Fool's Errand, but it's been interesting to play with.  In fact, I'm using something like that right now:

Are the speakers you have the the X-CS's with open baffle subs.  I know in the past they had the NX-MTM but no longer offer the flat pack's.  I'm not sure why they stop making them. 

[Danny Richie]

This "Rank The Top..." notion may be putting the cart before the horse.  For instance, the NX-Treme and Otica speakers are bad speakers... IN MY ROOM.

Everyone reading thru this site / thread likes playing with speakers.  The problem is, the speakers you WANT may not the ones you NEED - no matter how you try to rationalize otherwise.  A better way of "Ranking" might be according to Room / Placement / Overall strategies for achieving performance.

This sounds like a video that I shot: https://youtu.be/aWDPieaILIg?si=79YQ-h83t7lcGmch

[jmimac351]

Are the speakers you have the the X-CS's with open baffle subs.  I know in the past they had the NX-MTM but no longer offer the flat pack's.  I'm not sure why they stop making them.

I don't own any speakers from Danny; although, he has worked on a pair for me.  Danny has NOT worked on these speakers (at least not my pair) and if he'd like me to delete, I will... Since they have been out of production for a decade, I'll share here with hopes it doesn't muddle things, but maybe speaks more to "features".  Good luck finding a pair. That picture I posted above is the external crossover from a pair of Wilson Audio Duette: Stand mount 2-way speaker, soft dome tweeter, 8" woofer. They play to mid-30s Hz and have the sensitivity I am learning to appreciate for my chosen amplification - Ayre Acoustics VX-5 Twenty.  They are tipped up in the 1-2kHz range and VERY resolving. 1-2Khz is where Danny has mentioned the action is on the highs and I am experiencing that right now.  They are so "resolving" that I had to ignore the setup suggestions from Wilson and play them off-axis. They have been fun to play with and very impressive.  They are giving me a taste of what I want and influencing my not so subtle Jedi Mind Trick nudges to the fellas in Iowa Park, TX.  I suspect there are things Danny and Hobbs would like to share, but that would just open a can of worms on the phone / email and they wouldn't be able to get any work done!  I am using the Duette with a pair of SVS SB-16 Ultra subs (sealed).

I'm continuing to pull the string and finding what works for my taste / setup.  One thing I have definitely learned: A 2-way that plays to mid-30Hz with a pair of subs is the business... I suspect Wilson stopped making this 8" woofer 2-way because it was too good paired with subs - compared to their megabuck stuff.

[Early B.]

One thing I have definitely learned: A 2-way that plays to mid-30Hz with a pair of subs is the business...

Yep. You should send one of those to Danny to fix and upgrade the crossover.

[jmimac351]

Yep. You should send one of those to Danny to fix and upgrade the crossover.

I am certainly not unhappy with the speaker, unlike a different one I sent to Danny, which I was unhappy with.  If you raise $320 to cover shipping the crate back and forth, I'll send it. There's no getting into the crossover as the components are encased in epoxy.  It would be a clean sheet anyway.  Also, I will need a separate $$$ fund for security services for when Wilson owners order a hit on me.