trying some new belt material...

Erocka2000 · « **Reply #20 on:** 25 Jan 2013, 06:36 pm »

Quote from: vortrex on 25 Jan 2013, 04:57 pm

interesting thickness with that silk thread you mention, it's 5x thicker than the .004" mono filament.

I noticed that as well when I looked at the silk. That's quite thick, isn't it?

watercourse · « **Reply #21 on:** 25 Jul 2013, 04:21 am »

OK, my belt started making clicking noises suddenly last week, and then the belt broke a few days later on my Simplex. First belt change since November.

So I put on a new belt two days ago, and it broke today. It was also clicking before it broke. Has anyone heard of a connection between these two things, or ideas of what the clicking is caused by, and is the belt breakage related to it?

Also, any updates on belt material? Should I just get replacements from DV? No nearby dealers now that Pitch Perfect has moved down south. Might be a good time to look at different belts, if this will be an ongoing theme...

vortrex · « **Reply #22 on:** 25 Jul 2013, 05:31 am »

My replacements from DV broke the quickest, compared to homemade and new ones from WT. I tried some other materials, but nothing worked any better. I would break a belt every 3 weeks and that's only about 15-20hrs of table time for me.

Jbwatson · « **Reply #23 on:** 25 Jul 2013, 08:46 pm »

My first belt on the WTA lasted about six months. It didn't break, but I could hear an unevenness in the speed of rotation. I took it off and it was badly frayed. After that, I have been replacing my belts at an average of 3 weeks...almost all of which have broken at the knot. I almost never change speed and I always do a hot swap. All belts have been factory....think I might have to start following your leads, thank you for the information listed on belt material!

threadkiller · « **Reply #24 on:** 26 Jul 2013, 07:10 pm »

My 1/2 cent worth--- I rarely break a belt. Once a year maybe? I play records almost everyday, sometimes for hours. So I keep reading these threads, and wondering what is going on. Firebaugh doesn't break belts, or he would have quickly addressed it. Mr Pranka doesn't break belts.

Could it be something you are doing, with your fingers, with your pressure, with something?

I'm using an Amadeus. Would probably have a GTA if they had been available first.
Still dislike the Versalex and new arm - whatever stupid name it's called- on principle, and hate the Simplex as one of the stupidest, cheapest marketing attempts ever. Just touch it and you know it's shite.

I do use a DPS, although my belt scenario was the same with the wall wart.

watercourse · « **Reply #25 on:** 26 Jul 2013, 07:36 pm »

Mike Pranka responded to my questions and said there is likely no cause other than variability in each belt, since they are all hand-tied. He is sending some new belts.

My behavior in using the Simplex has not changed over the past few months, other than the use of a tachometer to dial in RPMs, but this does not involve touching any part of the table other than the plinth.

Not sure how the quality of the Simplex has any bearing on the belt, assuming the belts are the same for all models...

Jbwatson · « **Reply #26 on:** 26 Jul 2013, 07:41 pm »

I can't help but feel that the clue to my mystery is the fact that they break at the knot...maybe a bad run of belts? I had the most trouble putting on the first belt and it lasted by far, the longest. I also changed speeds a few time with it and it was very good, I generally played an average of 6 hours a day or so 7 days a week. I now use it on average maybe a couple of hours a day. There are no obvious changes in my routine other than I have been playing it less.

threadkiller · « **Reply #27 on:** 26 Jul 2013, 07:58 pm »

Now that is a shame... the virtue of the newer WTL's is that you play more, not less.
Email Mr P and see if he can sort it out.

threadkiller · « **Reply #28 on:** 26 Jul 2013, 08:03 pm »

Overall the belts are equal for that ghastly Simplex, although they are smaller- smaller platter, smaller arm.
Yet you are correct, they should behave the same.

watercourse · « **Reply #29 on:** 26 Jul 2013, 09:17 pm »

Mike Pranka also suggested giving the platter a spin by hand when first starting it up, but didn't know whether this would actually help or not with the belt breakage.

If threadkiller's opinion that even making the platter wobble a little bit when changing records might contribute to short belt lifespan, then hand-spinning the platter would also. So threadkiller: when you change records, you never cause the platter to wobble?

Seems as if Mike doesn't have any good ideas or explanations, and the most logical conclusion is that it is the variable belt quality that is at issue. Any other hypotheses?

threadkiller · « **Reply #30 on:** 27 Jul 2013, 01:41 am »

Well, maybe I have dainty, nimble fingers?
No, I don't make the platter wobble. Sometimes I let the motor on between plays like a Linn, sometimes I turn it off. I don't rotate the platter by hand like Mike and Mr F do... not in my table ritual. I'm lazy.

I have no other theories other than a user issue. I am certainly not saying this is it, yet? A quick note- I have 3 friends with WTL'S, two play all the time. One rarely breaks belts, one does often. And with each, looking at their character and how they treat other objects, you can see how it plays out. ( no worries, they aren't on here!)

Mike ties my belts just like yours.

Jbwatson · « **Reply #31 on:** 27 Jul 2013, 01:41 pm »

I honestly think that it is just a belt variable. I've tried starting the spin by hand, and then starting the spin extremely slow by hand when it didn't work the first time. I haven't found a difference, and frankly, I can't imagine the belts would be that sensitive, or they would all be breaking after a short time. I think it might be the knot itself being a bit to tight?...just a thought.

I can live with the belt breaking if Mike can live with the replacements, although it's nice to have some other options in case he gets tired of sending out belts.

I listen according to how much work I'm doing in my room, not according to belt breakage, so it's not really a hassle...just taking a lot of time off this summer.

Erocka2000 · « **Reply #32 on:** 27 Jul 2013, 03:34 pm »

I've used two different varieties:

http://www.coatsandclark.com/Products/Sewing/Threads/Special+Purpose/S995+Coats+and+Clark+Transparent+Polyester.htm (In smoke)

http://www.coatsandclark.com/Products/Sewing/Threads/Special+Purpose/Coats+and+Clark+Upholstery+Nylon.htm (In black)

I made myself a jig and make the belts myself. There's a little bit of a learning curve tying the knots, but it does get easier.

threadkiller · « **Reply #33 on:** 27 Jul 2013, 05:35 pm »

That's very good...for once useful info for some of you...

Jbwatson · « **Reply #34 on:** 28 Jul 2013, 02:01 pm »

Erocka2000, thank you for that very useful information! I will be measuring out a jig and get a start on some belts myself...can't wait to compare them.

watercourse · « **Reply #35 on:** 28 Jul 2013, 05:18 pm »

Yes, thank you. Did one last longer than the other?

Erocka2000 · « **Reply #36 on:** 28 Jul 2013, 06:27 pm »

Well the 100% nylon is a bit thicker than the polyester, but it's tough to get a smaller knot with it, which means more audible (albeit low) clicks when the knot passes around the pulley. I've been using the polyester for the past couple of months. I haven't had any breaks, but I generally make a new belt every couple of months, as they do stretch out over time. Considering I'll be able to make a hell of a lot of belts from one spool, it's definitely worth the price.

watercourse · « **Reply #37 on:** 28 Jul 2013, 06:30 pm »

Thanks bud! Good info. If Mike's belts prove to have a short lifespan, I'll probably go your route.

Jbwatson: So it sounds like you've already needed replacements from DV? Did you get them from a dealer, or did Mike send them to you?

Jbwatson · « **Reply #38 on:** 29 Jul 2013, 12:35 am »

Got my replacements from Mike. He has been very good about sending them.

ADiG · « **Reply #39 on:** 29 Jul 2013, 06:33 am »

Hello,
in my opinion, the belt must be as per manual specs because who planned took into account the length, thickness and elasticity of the material, whereas it must exert a force adequate (not too strong) to keep the dish in the direction of the motor, which must sit straight in his seat. If these parameters are not respected, we have to produce more friction that striving and increased engine noise.
Finally, if the largest knot, it tends to slow down the dish at every turn and will produce more noise since the pulley was made to accommodate a knot.
For me, it's fine polyester 0.004 inc. and nothing else.
Sorry my English is not good...

Armando