[zybar]

Ok, I am giving into peer pressure and writing just a little bit on my initial thoughts on the D-200's.

The amps have been pretty much playing music non-stop for almost a week so I think that I am getting a fair representation of what they can do.  I am using the very good Black Sand Silver Max power cords, which connect to my Running Springs Haley conditioner.

Well, I must say that I am quite impressed!  I expected them to sound good for the money and not be the giant slayer that many had made them out to be (sorry Dusty) - looks like I was wrong!

So far these amps are right up there with some of the better amps I have listened to in my system (including the McCormack DNA-500).

I won't say that they have a tube like midrange like others have said, but will say that the midrange is clean, musical, and engaging.  Voices are rich, textured, and spot on.  

Bass is excellent and only slightly behind the legendary DNA-500 in terms of overall performance.  Drums are tight and fast, while maintaining some flesh on the bone.  Nothing thin or weak here!

Highs are very vivid and lifelike without a hint of glare, grain, or grit.  Horns have the right amount of bite without crossing the line into brightness or harshness.

Imaging and soundstage are also very good and help make this a pair of amps with no major weaknesses.

Will it replace the DNA-500?  Too soon to tell, but the fact that I can even consider it is quite a statement.

Great job Dusty!!  

George

[mcrespo71]

That would be cool if it did replace the McCormack.  At least for your wallet

[lonewolfny42]

Sounds good George...a few questions, thanks !

Are the amps supplied with stock cords ? Have you tested them at all that way ?[/list:u]
Don't know how loud your playing them....but how do they perform as the volume increases ?[/list:u]
Thanks... [/list:u]
Chris[/list:u]

[zybar]

Sounds good George...a few questions, thanks !

Are the amps supplied with stock cords ? Have you tested them at all that way ?[/list:u]
Don't know how loud your playing them....but how do they perform as the volume increases ?[/list:u]
Thanks... [/list:u]
Chris[/list:u]

The come with stock cords, but I didn't try them.

I have hit peaksin the upper 90's to see how they handled when cranked - no distortion or issues there.  Most of my listening has been in the 80's with peaks into the 90's.

George

[mcrespo71]

I've now had both the D200 and Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes in my system. They both have outstanding clarity and extension. The image is large through both amps. Bass is deep and ballsy without bloat.

I personally prefer the Odyssey Monos. They have some heft and drive that the D200s lack. Also, I have always been bothered by digital amps' lack of emotion and "realness". They do everything well and acurately, but they have no soul. The Odysseys have soul.

But can't the "soul" argument be used against any amp topology?  I'm sure there are some SET lovers that woud more than glad to use the "lacking soul" argument against any SS amp.

[zybar]

I've now had both the D200 and Odyssey Stratos Mono Extremes in my system. They both have outstanding clarity and extension. The image is large through both amps. Bass is deep and ballsy without bloat.

I personally prefer the Odyssey Monos. They have some heft and drive that the D200s lack. Also, I have always been bothered by digital amps' lack of emotion and "realness". They do everything well and acurately, but they have no soul. The Odysseys have soul.

Just curious...why are you selling the Odyssey amps?

BTW, we will have to agree to disagree on the D-200's not having soul.  While they don't have the soul of my old Kora or Atma-Sphere tube amps, I do find them very engaging.  I haven't heard Klaus' Mono Extremes so I can't comment on them.

George

[zybar]

My search for a SS amp with the refinement of the VAC continues... .

That's simple...

DarTzeel NHB 108

I have heard it in the same system against the VAC Phi 220 mono amps and the DarT beats it across the board.

BTW, I TOTALLY agree with you about the VAC amp having more soul than the D-200's (or most other amps for that matter).

If you find anything out there that does it for you, let us know.

George

[toobluvr]

But can't the "soul" argument be used against any amp topology?  I'm sure there are some SET lovers that woud more than glad to use the "lacking soul" argument against any SS amp.

ya got that right!!
 

[toobluvr]

........I am selling the Odyssey monos because I prefer the VAC tube amp. My search for a SS amp with the refinement of the VAC continues......

Good luck on your long and difficult search!!
 

[toobluvr]

No doubt. However, the drive, slam and meaty quality that SS brings to my system simply shames the VAC, as exceptional as it is.

The solution, of course, is bi-amping, with SS driving the woofers and a sweet SET amp driving the mid/tweeter.

Ain't gonna happen in my system, though. I'm all for simplification, not complication.

I don't know your speakers, but perhaps you have a less than ideal match?  
Perhaps there is something that is more simpatico to the VAC......something that will allow the VAC to perform more to its max capabilities?

Which VAC amp do you have?

BTW...not all tube amps are lacking in heft and slam.
I own one that is not.
I have been in touch with several experienced SS people that agree.

See my posts on this thread:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=27862&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[mcrespo71]

I own a VAC Phi 110/110, and my speakers have been paired with VAC gear at audio shows for several years.

I have heard great things about the Dodd monos, which you apparently own.

Look. I'm going to be blunt. The VAC amp is outstanding. It drives my speakers very well, and I've enjoyed the combo for over two years. However, the VAC does not have the balls, the drive and the slam of any 200+ wpc SS amps I have owned or tried.

The Dodd Monos may be the exception. Not having heard them in my system, ...

I like that you don't pull punches or think that any piece of gear truly gives you it all.  IMO, it's a sign of a very mature listener.  Kudos, man.

FWIW- my system completely majors on rhythm and drive and I am unapologetic about it.  I listen mostly to rock, so what do I care?  I used to have a system that was pretty good at many things- now I have a system that is superlative in a couple criteria that are super important to the music I listen to and just OK to not so good at others, and I'm happier than ever.

Michael

[JerryH]

Ok, I am giving into peer pressure and writing just a little bit on my initial thoughts on the D-200's.

The amps have been pretty much playing music non-stop for almost a week so I think that I am getting a fair representation of what they can do.  I am using the very good Black Sand Silver Max power cords, which connect to my Running Springs Haley conditioner.

Well, I must say that I am quite impressed!  I expected them to sound good for the money and not be the giant slayer that many had made them o ...

That pretty much mirrors my intial impressions comparing the D200's to my DNA 1 Gold. In regards to the 'soul', I initially gave the edge to the McCormack. But as time went on, the D200's took on more soul. The reason? My theory is that the detail and imaging were so revealing that I tended to listen analytically, concentrating on the subtle details more than the whole. I tried a few things to get that soul. Different p/c's, balanced power, and even those exotic fuses. While all those seemed to help, what made the difference was when I was able to just relax and imerse myself in the music without listening critically.
It's been a few months now and I don't miss the McCormack. The soul is here for me. I'm listening to more music now than ever before and never tiring of it (which is really pissing off the wife) I really can't find a weakness in these amps.

[mcrespo71]

now I have a system that is superlative in a couple criteria that are super important to the music I listen to and just OK to not so good at others, and I'm happier than ever.

Michael

That's a good place to be.

This hobby is all about compromise, and our quest to discover the least objectionable compromise. If it wasn't, these discussion forums wouldn't be alive, and Audiogon listings would only be half a page long.

I agree completely.  The minute I stop listening to my music, I'll make a switch in gear, but I hope it doesn't happen anytime soon.  Easier said than done in this hobby, though.

[mcrespo71]

That pretty much mirrors my intial impressions comparing the D200's to my DNA 1 Gold. In regards to the 'soul', I initially gave the edge to the McCormack. But as time went on, the D200's took on more soul. The reason? My theory is that the detail and imaging were so revealing that I tended to listen analytically, concentrating on the subtle details more than the whole. I tried a few things to get that soul. Different p/c's, balanced power, and even those exotic fuses. While all those seemed to help, what m ...

My suggestion to you is to just enjoy now!!!!  Read the forums for fun

[denjo]

Goeorge, thanks very much for reviewing the D200 against the McCormack DNA-500. I must say that I have been following this thread with very keen interest. It has been my dream to one day own the DNA-500 but just could not stretch my budget to realise the purchase, settling for the D200s instead. My previous amp was the McCormack DNA-0.5 Rev A. In my system, the D200 unequivocably beat the DNA-0.5 Rev A in every important area, including greater bass presence (speakers are Thiel CS2.4). The fact that the D200s have been able to stand head-to-head with the legendary DNA-500, as you aptly said, is itself quite a statement already! Although I am still looking for more bass heft, the D200s are able to provide bass that is tight and well defined so that following the bass lines in the music is not difficult at all. I have decided to add a Sub (ACI Force XL) that will add the bass heft that should more than satisfy. All in all, I am very pleased with the D200s. They have exceeded my expectations and brought a level of satisfaction and musical enjoyment that I have found so elusive! Great job Dusty!

[alotaklipsch]

I own a VAC Phi 110/110, and my speakers have been paired with VAC gear at audio shows for several years.

I have heard great things about the Dodd monos, which you apparently own.

Look. I'm going to be blunt. The VAC amp is outstanding. It drives my speakers very well, and I've enjoyed the combo for over two years. However, the VAC does not have the balls, the drive and the slam of any 200+ wpc SS amps I have owned or tried.

The Dodd Monos may be the exception. Not having heard them in my system, ...

I tried sending you a pair remember?

[Charles Calkins]

Zybar:
  Welcome to the D-200 fan club.

                 Cheers
                    Charlie

[toobluvr]

.......However, the VAC does not have the balls, the drive and the slam of any 200+ wpc SS amps I have owned or tried. .......

And I bet you'd search far and wide before you find a big SS amp (if you can even find one at all) that does delicacy, finesse, dimensionality, harmonics, palpability, and just plain ol' "human-ness" the way good tubes do.  

Everyone knows that no one amp will do everything superbly, and that tradeoffs are always involved.

The ideal amp for any one person is the one that delivers his priorities the "best", and offers minimal compromises in the other areas.   We all have different tastes and priorities, and even perceptions of which gear actually delivers those priorites.  Hence the whole process is highly subjective, and we see a wide array of opinions and preferences when it comes to gear.

The following is highly cliched and probably an over-simplification, but in my experience I find it to hold true in general:

If you prize the above qualities above all else..........go with tubes.

If slam and heft are of utmost importance to you.......go with sand.

[toobluvr]

Toobluvr, I agree on all counts, and if you take a look at one of my posts above, I say just about the same thing regarding compromise.

However, being a stubborn bastard, I have one more SS idea that I'm going to investigate before I hang it up.

       

I'm the same way!
I try to keep an open mind.....and keep trying different stuff.....namely SS amps on ocassion...just to see if they've gotten any "better"......or more accurately, to see if they've become more "tube-like".

But I keep returning to the glass!  

My buddy has the excellent DarT-Zeel amp....and it is very good indeed.
Tube-like qualities in mids and highs, and incredible bass...according to all the reviews.  
It is very likely I could live with it...not 100% sure because I haven't listened enough.  

But you know what?
As good as  the bass is....in some ways, I prefer my system's bass reproduction better.  Sometimes the DZ sounds a bit too round and "too-big"....like it is out of balance with, and swamping, the rest of the music.  I find mine to be better balanced, tighter, snappier and often better articulated/detailed with better leading edge.  At least to my taste.  Others may opine differently.

But again...not having spent lots of time in front of it, these are just initial impressions.  And it is probably still burning in.  So I could be wrong.....who knows?    

Look.......I don't have tons of SS experience.  And I'm not really wowed by killer SOA bass performance.  It is not one of my priorities, nor what I listen for.  But I do have very full range speakers and I can say that the Dodd bass performance is very good.  

Is it up there with the best big SS......some of the names mentioned on this board?
I dunno...I personally can't say.    
For my tastes, SS shortcomings elsewhere prevent me from listening long enough to get a full appreciation of what they can really do in the bass.

But like I say, I know of some people, more experienced with SS than I am,  who think the Dodds give up very little, if anything at all.

[zybar]

John is using Blue Heron i loudspeakers.  Since Meadowlark is out of business, I am not sure how to get the stats on the speaker.  Here is the stats from the Blue Heron:

 Type: three-way, four-driver, floorstanding loudspeaker system

Bass: two ScanSpeak 7" carbon graphite woofers in rear-ported transmission line system

Midrange: Audax Aerogel 3.5" driver

Tweeter: Audax "gas piezo" driver

Crossovers: 300Hz, 5kHz (first-order 6dB/octave)

Frequency response: 30Hz - 30kHZ (+/-3dB)

Impedance: 4 ohms

Sensitivity: 90dB/W/m

Dimensions: 11.5" x 15" x 44" (WxDxH)

Weight: 120 lbs.

Here is a picture of John's system:



George