Berning ZH-270 Amplifier

earlmarc · « **on:** 6 May 2006, 08:24 pm »

This amplifier caught my attention. Does anyone have any experience with it? Here is a link of reviews: www.fsaudioweb.com/listen/davidberning.html

zybar · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 May 2006, 08:35 pm »

Quote from: earlmarc

This amplifier caught my attention. Does anyone have any experience with it? Here is a link of reviews: www.fsaudioweb.com/listen/davidberning.html

I have heard it on a few occasions with Merlin and Coincident speakers and thought it produced a very enjoyable sound that was easy to listen to and got the toe tapping.

Excellent in the midrange and highs, but not enough oomph! in the bottom for me ultimately. Also could run out of gas depending on speaker sensitivity.

Here is a very positive review:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue5/berning.htm

George

gbeard · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 May 2006, 10:30 pm »

I owned one for quite a while. It was one of the finest amplifiers I have ever heard. I loved it and I wish I had never sold it.

Sometimes audiophiles do stupid things...

toobluvr · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 May 2006, 11:03 pm »

Quote from: gbeard

I owned one for quite a while. It was one of the finest amplifiers I have ever heard. I loved it and I wish I had never sold it.

Sometimes audiophiles do stupid things...

No big deal....just buy it back again!

Over the years this amp has been quite scarce on Audiogon.
Owners liked them and held onto them.
When one became available, it was snatched up quickly.
Prices have also stayed pretty high.

But recently, over the past 6 months or so, I've been seeing quite a few come up for sale. I have also seen the prices dropping, and units lingering unsold for much longer than they did previously.

I figured something was up, so I asked around a bit.
I can't vouch for the accuracy here, but word from the grapevine is that a set of Berning monoblocks are in the works. They are reported to waaaay outperform the ZH270. I also hear they will be quite pricey.

I suspect dumping of the ZH270 is typical audio-nervosa behaviour.
But you can draw your own conclusions.

In any event....good opportunity to get one for less than you probably sold yours for!

earlmarc · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 May 2006, 12:33 am »

I spoke with Frank at fsaudioweb about the ZH-270. He stated that there is a 12 month waiting period on the amplifier. It takes David Berning 2 months to make one amplifier. Frank offered an alternative that he believes sounds better. The Wolcott P120S amplifier.

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 May 2006, 12:38 am »

Quote from: earlmarc

I spoke with Frank at fsaudioweb about the ZH-270. He stated that there is a 12 month waiting period on the amplifier. It takes David Berning 2 months to make one amplifier. Frank offered an alternative that he believes sounds better. The Wolcott P120S amplifier.

Always wanted to hear the Wolcott amp - legendary things have been said and written about it.

I thought they were significantly more expensive (around the $10k range)?

George

earlmarc · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 May 2006, 12:49 am »

$6000.00 for the P120S. This is a unigue offering from Wolcott. 85watt into 8ohm and 120 & 120watt into 4ohm. The P120S is better suited for higher sensitivity speakers.

zybar · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 May 2006, 01:03 am »

Quote from: earlmarc

$6000.00 for the P120S. This is a unigue offering from Wolcott. 85watt into 8ohm and 120 & 120watt into 4ohm. The P120S is better suited for higher sensitivity speakers.

Ah...

I was thinking of the higher powered (and more much more expensive) mono amps.

Don't think I have heard anything about this model.

George

toobluvr · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 May 2006, 01:39 am »

Quote from: earlmarc

I spoke with Frank at fsaudioweb about the ZH-270. He stated that there is a 12 month waiting period on the amplifier. It takes David Berning 2 months to make one amplifier. Frank offered an alternative that he believes sounds better. The Wolcott P120S amplifier.

I've always been curious about the Berning, but have never heard it.

Over the last few months I've been in contact with several people who used to own the ZH-270, and now own the Dodd 120 monos. To a man, they all prefer the Dodds.

Matter of fact, these guys have owned quite a wide array of noteworthy (and usually pricey!) amps. In their view, the Dodds have bested all of them. So the Berning is in good company!

These include, but are not limited to:

McCormack DNA 500
BAT VK500
BAT VK600
Conrad Johnson 350
ASL Hurricanes
Parasound JC1
Cary CAD-211M
Joule OTL VZN-100 Marquis MkIV
NOSValves VRD
Lamm ???

I too own the Dodds, but I've never heard any of these amps, so I can't say if I concur with their opinions.

Not looking to start any amp wars.
Just passing along info that has been passed on to me, by some fellas with lots of experience and toys.......FWIW

zybar · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 May 2006, 01:55 am »

Quote from: toobluvr

These include, but are not limited to:

McCormack DNA 500
BAT VK500
BAT VK600
Conrad Johnson 350
ASL Hurricanes
Parasound JC1
Cary CAD-211M
Joule OTL VZN-100 Marquis MkIV
NOSValves VRD
Lamm ???

Pretty impressive list!

I kind of wish I had purchased them when Gary offered them at that really good blow out price.

So is it really the best amp you have had in your system? If so, what makes it the best?

George

earlmarc · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 May 2006, 02:33 am »

Toobluvr, do you think that the fellas you are referring to with lots of experience and toys, would be willing to share their experiences?

toobluvr · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 May 2006, 03:55 am »

Quote from: earlmarc

Toobluvr, do you think that the fellas you are referring to with lots of experience and toys, would be willing to share their experiences?

Ok....I'll get ya started.

Lots of their thoughts already committed to paper.

Move yourself on over to Audiogon forums.
Do a member lookup on "711smilin" and "1markr".
Click on "discussion posts".
From there click on "systems" and "threads" to see the evolution of their system.....and their comments and comparisons.

"711smilin" = "alotaklipsch" on this board.
Search on his posts here.
He gives some comparisons and opinions.
He has owned tons of very nice gear....stuff that I can only dream about!
Including some of the best digital and preamps in the world.
Not to mention, some very nice amps also!

toobluvr · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 May 2006, 04:16 am »

Quote from: zybar

Quote from: toobluvr

These include, but are not limited to:

McCormack DNA 500
BAT VK500
BAT VK600
Conrad Johnson 350
ASL Hurricanes
Parasound JC1
Cary CAD-211M
Joule OTL VZN-100 Marquis MkIV
NOSValves VRD
Lamm ???

Pretty impressive list!

I kind of wish I had purchased them when Gary offered them at that really good blow out price.

So is it really the best amp you have had in your system? If so, what makes it the best?

George

Hard to say for sure, George.....beause I've had so many amps, in so many different systems.

But yes...I'm pretty confident it is the best.

I can say that right now, with the Dodds, I'm getting the best sound I've ever had.

As you know, I have an affinity for SET. While the Dodd monos don't have quite the same palpability, fluidity, lucious midrange, halographic imaging, or beautiful "lit from within" quality as good SET, they are just soooo well balanced and sooooo good in just about all regards...that I can overlook their non-SET status. Haven't found too many amps that I feel that way about!

The bass is incredible...
I was gonna say, "for a tube amp".
But I think it is probably incredible for ANY amp.
But I can't say for sure...not having huge amounts of sand amp experience.
Great pitch, definition and detail.
Well balanced.....never swamps or overtakes the music.
Plenty of impact and just plain "natural sounding".

If the mids are not right...game over...I walk away.
I don't care how good it is anywhere else.
Dodd mids are wonderfully clear, natural and expressive.
Not quite goosebump material.
But I have only ever gotten that from SET.

Highs are smooth and grain free.
May not have the last bit of air/sparkle...but I think problem might lie elsewhere in the system.

It does a VG job on all the other auido-fool tricks like imaging and space.
Very fast...very transparent.....quite detailed, but naturally so.
Not analytical or hi-fi'ish.
Musical....fatigue free....can listen forever.
And I am hugely sensitive to grain, glare, or any kind of fatiguing sound.

I know it's a cliche....but I know of no other way to say it.
The Dodd 120 monos seems to marry the best of both camps.
The speed, detail and transparency of sand...
but you still always know you are listening to tubes as the warmth, layering, musicality and "human-ness" of glass comes through.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 May 2006, 04:31 am »

toobluvr....You should hold a Rave. We could all bring a few amps over to compare....see how they all match up.

Chris[/list:u]

zybar · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 May 2006, 12:26 pm »

Thanks John.

Knowing your tastes and almost all of your previous systems, that is high praise indeed.

Might have to snag a pair if they come up for sale.

George

toobluvr · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 May 2006, 02:13 pm »

Quote from: zybar

Thanks John.

Knowing your tastes and almost all of your previous systems, that is high praise indeed.

Might have to snag a pair if they come up for sale.

George

Don't know if they have the juice for your 85db speakers.

Although one of the fellas mentioned above tells me the Dodds drive his Eggleston Works Andra II (88db) better than any of the huge arc-welders he has owned (BAT 500 and 600, CJ, DNA-500). Not only do the Dodds drive them better, but in his opinion, they produce better bass AND sound better overall.

Said he was shocked......given the power rating differentials, and the Andras reputation for juice thirst.

A few other comment about the Dodd 120s.
I have never owned another tube amp that is so rock solid on the bias....no drift whatsoever.
It is a pleasure to set it (a total of 1 minute for both amps) and forget it.

The build is bulletproof and the aesthetics are understated.....a look that I prefer.
To me, it translates into elegant.

Gary has obviously put a lot of thought into these amps...and it shows.
He is also quite responsive, despite being very busy, and a pleasure to deal with.
As I have said in other posts, based on my experience with Gary and this amp, I would not hesitiate to look into other Dodd products.
I'm confident his preamps are excellent.

earlmarc · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 May 2006, 02:33 pm »

I wonder how the Dodd Audio M120 compares to the Wolcott P120S. Does anyone have any direct experience comparing them?

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 May 2006, 04:46 pm »

Does Dodd only sell direct?

toobluvr · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 May 2006, 05:08 pm »

Quote from: mcrespo71

Does Dodd only sell direct?

I could be wrong, but to my knowledge he now sells only through this outlet:

http://tweekgeek.com/

The reported reason for the group buy special that Gary ran last year was to kickoff a change in business practices.
He went from direct sales to dealer sales.
In the process, 120 mono prices more than doubled.

I can say that based on my experience with a fair number of tube amps, the 120s perform waaaaay beyond the $2k group buy price!
That was an incredible deal!!

Whether he still sells direct, I dunno.
Check with Gary on it.

earlmarc · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 May 2006, 03:29 am »

Berning 270H for sale: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1152227287