I bet I can make your speakers sound better.

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Danny Richie

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #340 on: 21 Jun 2022, 03:28 pm »
Danny and Hobbs.
Could you please let us know how to choose parts on sound quality? Sonic caps or Myflex. Mills or Dayton and so on. What to use in what. Which parts are….Natural, soft, warm, cold and neutral. What are you choice to all of us that want to upgrade speakers that you have not touched. Because we live over seas….
GR does some GReat work.
Do you have your logo in a pdf design/high res printable, to use on my new speaker cases?

Some of the answers to cap questions depend on the application and where they are used in the circuit. So my answer, if answered in detail, could be quite long.

I can send you our logo in any form. Just shot us an email on it and we'll fire some over to you.

Rikard Ekval

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #341 on: 21 Jun 2022, 04:10 pm »
Some of the answers to cap questions depend on the application and where they are used in the circuit. So my answer, if answered in detail, could be quite long.
 :wink:I guessed so.

I can send you our logo in any form. Just shot us an email on it and we'll fire some over to you.
Thanks.  :thumb:

Evo-No_Revo

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #342 on: 8 Jul 2022, 11:12 pm »
Hey Danny, have you ever worked with King Sound products?  Specifically King lll? 

Danny Richie

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #343 on: 20 Jul 2022, 10:57 am »
Hey Danny, have you ever worked with King Sound products?  Specifically King lll?

I have not.

RAART

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #344 on: 25 Jul 2022, 09:23 am »
Hello Danny,

first time posting here... I like to know if you have an x-over upgrade kit for Kef R700?

All the best.

Danny Richie

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #345 on: 29 Jul 2022, 04:46 pm »
Hello Danny,

first time posting here... I like to know if you have an x-over upgrade kit for Kef R700?

All the best.

Not currently.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #346 on: 1 Aug 2022, 03:19 am »
Hello Danny,

first time posting here... I like to know if you have an x-over upgrade kit for Kef R700?

All the best.

We've had the large R11 towers in that are similar, but all of the modern, mid and high-end Kef speakers are loaded with bracing that makes it difficult to install new crossovers, not to mention that the stock crossovers are also glued onto pegs that can't be removed non-destructively.

Here is the tweeter/mid crossover on the R11.



Best non-destructive option to upgrade them would be to simply line the cabinets with NoRez, leaving about 2 inches away from the opening of the woofers to allow the woofers to breathe.

They're well braced, but had almost no stuffing or Polyfil, if i remember correctly, except for the area behind the tweeter/mid.

The smaller LS50 Meta did have a decent amount of open-cell foam in them.

artur9

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #347 on: 1 Aug 2022, 01:43 pm »
The smaller LS50 Meta did have a decent amount of open-cell foam in them.
Isn't the "meta material" in the LS50 Meta supposed to be the absorption?
I would have guessed that no foam would be needed in those at all.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #348 on: 1 Aug 2022, 02:49 pm »
Hi Danny and Hobbs.  I have a couple of inductor questions.  My son has watched many of your videos about upgrading speakers and decided to upgrade the crossovers in a pair of older PSB B6 bookshelf speakers that he wasn't using.

The woofer uses a 1MHz iron core inductor.  He wants to replace it with an air core (the tweeter already uses an air
core) My question is how important is it to match DCR of the iron core?

Also, can we hot glue the inductor to the back wall of the cabinet?  There is not much room, we had to mount the new caps off board.

By the way, we replaced all the electrolytic caps and sandcast resistors with Clarity CSA Caps, precision Dayton caps, Mills and Ohmite Audio Gold resistors along with Neotech wire and cardas silver solder.  The change was dramatic.  They sound like speakers costing over $1000 more.  The clarity, detail, air, transparency and sound stage greatly improved.  The tone and texture is also way better.  We would have used better caps but my son wanted to keep the cost reasonable.

Interestingly, we tried all Clarity caps in the tweeter circuit, and it sucked the life out of the speakers, they sounded dull and flat.  We swapped out one of the 2 Clarity caps in the tweeter circuit for the Dayton cap and it brought life and detail back to the speaker.  My only complaint is slight sibilance on some female vocals with the Dayton cap which I read can happen with these caps.   Also, the Ohmite AG resistors sounded ever so better than the Mills in the tweeter circuit.  Just ever so slightly more detail and better tone.

Thanks for the great video's sparking my son's interest in doing the upgrade.  It was a fun project to do together.

Larry


corndog71

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #349 on: 1 Aug 2022, 03:16 pm »
Clarity CSA caps are better in midrange frequencies.  They tend to roll off the upper frequencies.  I would recommend Sonicaps with a Miflex bypass on the tweeter circuit.  Or for more money, Clarity CMR/MR caps.  Those have much better sound top to bottom.

I don’t recommend Dayton caps as they sound grainy and lacking in detail.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #350 on: 1 Aug 2022, 03:30 pm »
Clarity CSA caps are better in midrange frequencies.  They tend to roll off the upper frequencies.  I would recommend Sonicaps with a Miflex bypass on the tweeter circuit.  Or for more money, Clarity CMR/MR caps.  Those have much better sound top to bottom.

I don’t recommend Dayton caps as they sound grainy and lacking in detail.

Thanks for the info. The issue is budget for my son.  The CSA caps are about $20 each and there are 2 each in the tweeter circuit.  The CMR caps are $105 each.  Same for Soni caps.  We may try the new Ultra Obbligato Golds or some Jantzen Caps.  The 2 caps are 22uF/250v (Clarity) and 15uF/250v (Dayton).  We kept all values the same as the original parts.

The Dayton cap actually sounds smooth and detailed when paired with the Clarity CSA in comparison to the way the stock speaker sounded.  I don't know much at all about bypass caps but I wonder if that is an option with the Daytons.  I have no idea what values to use.  I do know that it is trial and error with bypass caps.
« Last Edit: 1 Aug 2022, 07:58 pm by I.Greyhound Fan »

Tyson

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #351 on: 1 Aug 2022, 03:34 pm »
If you want an exceptional sounding bypass cap that's pretty cheap ($11), my favorite budget cap is the Miflex copper foil poly cap:

https://www.partsconnexion.com/product49899.html

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #352 on: 1 Aug 2022, 04:21 pm »
If you want an exceptional sounding bypass cap that's pretty cheap ($11), my favorite budget cap is the Miflex copper foil poly cap:

https://www.partsconnexion.com/product49899.html

My question is, how do you decide upon a value? Farads and voltage.  I assume that you want to keep the farads low and the voltage should be at least as high as the cap we are bypassing.  Do I also need to change the value of the existing cap that I am going to bypass or are the values of a bypass cap too low to make a difference except in sound?  We also need something small as the Clarity Caps are huge and are mounted off board onto the back end of the floor of the speaker.   We want to try and tame the sibilance a bit.  My budget is $25 each cap for now.

This is learning on the fly.  So far the upgrade far exceeded our expectations.

Tyson

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #353 on: 1 Aug 2022, 04:34 pm »
I've tried a bunch of different values.  For me a value of .1 or .22 are ideal.  You don't want to go larger than that if you can help it because if bypass caps get too big, they can affect the phase of the signal. 

Also, I know it goes against conventional wisdom, but I am a fan of bypassing the tweeter caps AND the midrange caps. 

corndog71

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #354 on: 1 Aug 2022, 07:08 pm »
Most film caps run 200-630 Volts.  In speaker crossovers any of these will work.  Some are cheaper at lower voltages but I’ve also come across cheaper 600 volt caps depending on brand. 

I second what Tyson said about bypasses.  Most of us here use 0.1uF caps but some have used smaller caps too. 

Another option is keep the CSA’s on the tweeters but bypass them with a Solen or maybe a silver cap to help bring back the top end.  Experiment! 

As for the Inductor question, it’s more important to match the inductance than the resistance.  I think. 

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #355 on: 1 Aug 2022, 07:33 pm »
Most film caps run 200-630 Volts.  In speaker crossovers any of these will work.  Some are cheaper at lower voltages but I’ve also come across cheaper 600 volt caps depending on brand. 

I second what Tyson said about bypasses.  Most of us here use 0.1uF caps but some have used smaller caps too. 

Another option is keep the CSA’s on the tweeters but bypass them with a Solen or maybe a silver cap to help bring back the top end.  Experiment! 

As for the Inductor question, it’s more important to match the inductance than the resistance.  I think.
I kept the voltages and uf's of the caps the same.  The original electrolytic caps were all 250v.  I knew I could have used higher voltages but wanted to keep things simple and the same as much as possible and to keep cost down.

How does a 0.1uf vs a 0.01uf differ in affected the sound?

We are planning on using this Jantzen Inductor if the DCR is similar to the iron core's.  I read that DCR can affect the sound.  I will have to remove the iron core and measure the DCR.

https://www.parts-express.com/Jantzen-1239-1.0mH-18-AWG-Air-Core-Inductor-255-250

or this one-

https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-LW181-1.0mH-18-AWG-Perfect-Layer-Inductor-257-826

corndog71

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #356 on: 1 Aug 2022, 08:58 pm »
I doubt there will be much of a difference between 0.1 and 0.01 but either one will sound better than no bypass.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #357 on: 2 Aug 2022, 02:35 am »
I kept the voltages and uf's of the caps the same.  The original electrolytic caps were all 250v.  I knew I could have used higher voltages but wanted to keep things simple and the same as much as possible and to keep cost down.

How does a 0.1uf vs a 0.01uf differ in affected the sound?

We are planning on using this Jantzen Inductor if the DCR is similar to the iron core's.  I read that DCR can affect the sound.  I will have to remove the iron core and measure the DCR.

https://www.parts-express.com/Jantzen-1239-1.0mH-18-AWG-Air-Core-Inductor-255-250

or this one-

https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-LW181-1.0mH-18-AWG-Perfect-Layer-Inductor-257-826

The larger the bypass the more tonal influence it has over the cap it's bypassing. (Assuming its a different type/brand of cap)
If you use a 0.1uF silver bypass, it may make the main cap sound a little bright/edgy, so a 0.01uF will help to soften that that edge, but maintain the clarity.

Too big, as Tyson mentioned, and you'll risk phase shift in the upper treble, which will affect imaging and soundstage.
In the tweeter circuit, a 0.22uF or smaller is about as large as you should go. But if the main tweeter cap is small, say 3uF or smaller, I would stick to 0.1uF or smaller for the bypass.

For large caps in the mid/bass you can get away with values 1/100th of the main cap. So a 75uF can be bypassed with a 0.68uF cap or smaller. Since the phase shift will be outside the range of that network.

Changing DCR can be a problem if it gets too high, especially in the bass circuit, as it will rob the bass of output.
Removing the iron core will raise its DCR and lower it's mH value quite drastically. So I would advise against that.

I would leave the iron core as-is just to get your baseline DCR, and find an aircore with a larger gauge that has a similar or lower DCR to get the best performance.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #358 on: 2 Aug 2022, 05:38 pm »
Thanks Hobbs.  It seems like I may have to stick with the iron core inductor as an air core will probably be too big to fit in a small bookshelf if I want to match the DCR.

It seems we are probably better off swapping out the Dayton caps in the tweeter circuit for something better vs bypassing.  The Dayton caps are detailed and airy but the touch of sibilance is annoying.

corndog71

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