Jay posted a preview video of his X-LS and GR speaker cable review

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 2564 times.

hawkeyejw

Very interesting (though not surprising) so far. Looking forward to seeing more as he continues his process and tests. I’m especially interested to see the blind A/B results.

WGH


Cheytak.408

  • Restricted
  • Posts: 152
I loved Jay's comments about the speaker cables!

It'll be interesting to see his "final" review on both!   :popcorn:

He needs to measure the electrical (LCR) characteristics of the GR and Aliexpress cables.  He will find all of them to be very different in comparison.

As 'they say' - stay tuned... they will be quite different.

Kaiju2189

It was an interesting video. It seems like he liked what he heard but was fighting some personal opinions at the same time. I respect he is planning on having some other people also listen an give feedback. He did say he liked the sound of the Encores and the cables but was struggling with his feelings about the video about Calling out reviewers.

I think he is a good reviewer and will separate his thoughts on personalities from what he hears and the value aspect of the GR products.

Tyson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 10043
  • Audio - It's all a big fake.
I like Jay, he seems to have integrity.  You can see that the "Calling out Reviewers" video antagonized him and he's up front about it and it is also clear he's not just going to do a hit-piece against the XL-S.

kickngas

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 45
I was anxious for this one, especially with all of the "swirl" around GR and ASR as of late. People need to chill out...on both sides. Having said that, I thought Jay approached his review with class and maturity...open minded with no mud slinging. It was refreshing to hear he was going to test the cables, A/B (blind?)test the speakers, have others offer their opinions etc.

newzooreview

The presenter in the video says that these X-LS Encores would cost "…a thousand dollars more than what these go for fully built." He attributes that to the person who built going "all over the world sourcing different parts."

I hope that he compares them to other $2,500 speakers in his full review. In the New Record Day audio clips of this speaker (the exact pair shipped to Jay's iyagi Youtube channel), the cost is stated to be $1500. That is a huge discrepancy.

Early B.

With regard to the speaker cable comparison, I wonder if the wire is identical, but the sonic difference was a result of the rope and connectors???

Sometimes when ordering direct from China, two items can look alike externally, but the quality inside is quite different. Maybe Jay will test not only the connectors for their copper content, but the wire quality of each speaker cable, as well. 

Early B.

The presenter in the video says that these X-LS Encores would cost "…a thousand dollars more than what these go for fully built."

Yeah, they aren't the typical X-LS speakers and probably shouldn't be reviewed. Hardly any potential X-LS owners will build them out that far. 

newzooreview

Yeah, they aren't the typical X-LS speakers and probably shouldn't be reviewed. Hardly any potential X-LS owners will build them out that far.

Yes, and the New Record Day video presented this pair as "$1,500" which is not the case.

In the viewer poll for the New Record Day sound clips video, the clear preference was for the Buchardt S400 MKII. It looks like the poll results are gone now from Youtube, however (or I am not finding them easily today). It was something like 58% Buchardt, 28% X-LS Encore, 14% Klipsch RP 600 MII.

Building the X-LS Encore "out that far" as you say, seems to not be reasonable.

Hobbsmeerkat

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 2060
Quote
The presenter in the video says that these X-LS Encores would cost "…a thousand dollars more than what these go for fully built." He attributes that to the person who built going "all over the world sourcing different parts."

I hope that he compares them to other $2,500 speakers in his full review. In the New Record Day audio clips of this speaker (the exact pair shipped to Jay's iyagi Youtube channel), the cost is stated to be $1500. That is a huge discrepancy.

The main differences come down to using all foil inductors and mills resistors in the crossover, to my knowledge there are no other differences other than using one of Peter's Baltic Birch plywood cabinets.

That's not a normal package we currently offer, but may have been in the past. Its more similar to the pair that Mike Lundy made for Rons Review, which I think were in the 1700-1800 range.
So I'm not sure I would put them at $1000 over a fully assembled/upgrade pair, maybe $300 more? but I could be wrong on that
Frederick would have to give more details, as there may have been some added shipping costs im not account for.

Overall, performance should be very similar between Jay's and one of our normal fully upgraded models. With just a little more openeness and clarity between them

Danny Richie

Yeah, they aren't the typical X-LS speakers and probably shouldn't be reviewed. Hardly any potential X-LS owners will build them out that far.

Other than the foil inductors and Mills resistors (that are really hard to find right now) they are just as we sell them. Differences because of those things are subtle.

newzooreview

1. Foil inductors.
2. Mills resistors.
3. Baltic birch plywood cabinets.

Parts quality and better control of cabinet resonance are exactly what GR Research markets as upgrades for other speakers.

Are you saying that Jay is misrepresenting the cost difference for these upgrades? Are you saying that better crossover parts and better cabinets don't improve the sound?

In the New Record Day video, he says of the pair of Encores "I believe it's going to Jay. I think this is the exact set that he is going to review, and I've been burning them in for Danny for the last week."

The NRD video states the cost is "under $1,500" and the GR Research post below states the cost for the multiple parts and cabinet upgrades would be $1700-1800.

It's quite hard to follow. Parts do matter. Parts don't matter. Cabinet materials and damping of resonances matter. It doesn't really matter. The speakers featured by NRD are the ones that Jay received. They aren't the ones Jay received. Jay will be reviewing $2,500 speakers. Jay will be reviewing $1700-1800 speakers.

Neither the speakers that NRD or Jay is reviewing is what people can order assembled on the GR Research website. That much is consistent across the data set.

newzooreview

"Its more similar to the pair that Mike Lundy made for Rons Review, which I think were in the 1700-1800 range."

The Jay's iyagi video says of his pair of Encores "this was built by a builder, Frederick…"

One of the pair of speakers in the Jay's iyagi video has a distinctive W-shaped grain in the top layer of the baltic birch laminate.



The same W-shaped grain is seen in the Encore in the New Record Day video.



So, these are the same speakers. Are they $1700-1800 Mike Lundy made speakers or $2,500 speakers made by Frederick?


Peter J

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1777
  • Hmmmm
"Its more similar to the pair that Mike Lundy made for Rons Review, which I think were in the 1700-1800 range."

The Jay's iyagi video says of his pair of Encores "this was built by a builder, Frederick…"

One of the pair of speakers in the Jay's iyagi video has a distinctive W-shaped grain in the top layer of the baltic birch laminate.

The same W-shaped grain is seen in the Encore in the New Record Day video.

So, these are the same speakers. Are they $1700-1800 Mike Lundy made speakers or $2,500 speakers made by Frederick?

Geez, newzooreview, you haven't uncovered some sinister deception. What's your point?

I'm guessing Frederick is including some shipping costs in his off-the-cuff $1000 upgrade statement, which I think was just that...off the cuff.   My BB flat pack is currently $218, plus assembly, plus shipping to Cali from Idaho. That's about $500 all in, so that's likely a portion of what he's suggesting. As far as the crossover parts he installed, I'll let him describe should he want to chime in.

mlundy57

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 3334
"Its more similar to the pair that Mike Lundy made for Rons Review, which I think were in the 1700-1800 range."

The Jay's iyagi video says of his pair of Encores "this was built by a builder, Frederick…"

One of the pair of speakers in the Jay's iyagi video has a distinctive W-shaped grain in the top layer of the baltic birch laminate.



The same W-shaped grain is seen in the Encore in the New Record Day video.



So, these are the same speakers. Are they $1700-1800 Mike Lundy made speakers or $2,500 speakers made by Frederick?

Those are not the ones I made. Mine had an MDF core with spalted figured maple over that. The front and rear baffles were solid maple. The crossovers had all Sonicaps, Sonicap Platinum by-pass caps in the tweeter circuits, Miflex KPCU by-pass caps in the woofer circuits, all foil inductors, and Mills resistors. All the upgraded components came from Danny and anyone ordering the kit could, at that point in time, order the same parts. 

At the time of Ron's review, I was asking $1,800 plus shipping. However, I built that pair before the pandemic and all the cost increases. If I were to build another pair like them today, they would be at least $2,500. The 10' x 16" x 2" rough sawn maple board I used to make those cost $500 at the time. I'm not sure I want to know how much that same piece of wood would cost today considering MDF costs three times what it did when I built those.

Mike






 

Hobbsmeerkat

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 2060
"Its more similar to the pair that Mike Lundy made for Rons Review, which I think were in the 1700-1800 range."

The Jay's iyagi video says of his pair of Encores "this was built by a builder, Frederick…"

One of the pair of speakers in the Jay's iyagi video has a distinctive W-shaped grain in the top layer of the baltic birch laminate.



The same W-shaped grain is seen in the Encore in the New Record Day video.



So, these are the same speakers. Are they $1700-1800 Mike Lundy made speakers or $2,500 speakers made by Frederick?

You're inferring a lot of things that noone is saying.
They ARE made by Frederick, NOT Mike.
Yes, they ARE the same pair that Ron had.

I was referring to the parts used in the crossovers, as they are internally specced similarly to the ones Mike built used foil inductors and mills resistors.

The cost differences are likely down to shipping and other costs that aren't obvious from the outside. Frederick would need to give his own explanation on that regard.

Yes, parts quality matters, but for all intents and purposes, the difference in performance at this level  over our own kit will be subtle, especially when you're already at the top
They are still voiced the same as the kits we offer.

The difference between coil and foil inductors are subtle, same goes for resistors once you step up above the bottom of the barrel options from pennies to $2, is a bigger jump than $2 to $8 or even from $8 to $30.

Sure, the unit Jay has is specced above what we normally offer at the top end, but so is Danny's personal pair. We don't stock Mills resistors any more, but in blind AB testing, it wont be easy to pick them out from the top end model we offer.

But to say that they aren't representative of the Encores we normally offer is incorrect. they're going to have much more in common than different.

The reason our speakers can be assembled for ~$1500 comes down to the builders being local to us. If we had to ship a bunch of parts and cabinets around to have them built, then the costs would obviously go up. Quite a bit in fact, easily to $1900-2000. Especially if all of the upgraded parts had to be sourced at retail prices and shipped.

If they had been built in-house by us, they would likely be $1700-1800 for a finished speaker using the same components that Frederick used.

Something else to keep in mind, shipping to Canada, the import duties/fees would also add hundreds to the final cost, that someone in the US would never need to deal with.

Danny Richie

1. Foil inductors.
2. Mills resistors.
3. Baltic birch plywood cabinets.

Parts quality and better control of cabinet resonance are exactly what GR Research markets as upgrades for other speakers.

Are you saying that Jay is misrepresenting the cost difference for these upgrades? Are you saying that better crossover parts and better cabinets don't improve the sound?

In the New Record Day video, he says of the pair of Encores "I believe it's going to Jay. I think this is the exact set that he is going to review, and I've been burning them in for Danny for the last week."

The NRD video states the cost is "under $1,500" and the GR Research post below states the cost for the multiple parts and cabinet upgrades would be $1700-1800.

It's quite hard to follow. Parts do matter. Parts don't matter. Cabinet materials and damping of resonances matter. It doesn't really matter. The speakers featured by NRD are the ones that Jay received. They aren't the ones Jay received. Jay will be reviewing $2,500 speakers. Jay will be reviewing $1700-1800 speakers.

Neither the speakers that NRD or Jay is reviewing is what people can order assembled on the GR Research website. That much is consistent across the data set.

Jay didn't buy that pair of speakers from us.

Do parts matter? Of course. However...

Differences in inductors verses what comes with the kit are subtle.
Differences in the resistors are subtle.
Differences in the cabinet (audible differences) via the birch ply compared to MDF is zero.

What he has is not something different from what a customer can purchase from us in any significant way.

Danny Richie

"Its more similar to the pair that Mike Lundy made for Rons Review, which I think were in the 1700-1800 range."

The Jay's iyagi video says of his pair of Encores "this was built by a builder, Frederick…"

One of the pair of speakers in the Jay's iyagi video has a distinctive W-shaped grain in the top layer of the baltic birch laminate.



The same W-shaped grain is seen in the Encore in the New Record Day video.



So, these are the same speakers. Are they $1700-1800 Mike Lundy made speakers or $2,500 speakers made by Frederick?

Frederick built the speakers out for Jay.

Frederick then sent them to us to measure and test to make sure they were correct, before they were sent up North to Jay.

We loaned them out to Ron for him to use as a reference for another review he was working on, and for him to put a little burn in time on them so Jay wouldn't have to play them for several weeks straight before reviewing them.

They were then sent to Jay.

VinceT

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 296
This drives me nuts reading it, has to get real old for the GRR gang.

Glad no one had  to call Scooby-Doo to solve another major audio caper.