Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input

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nightrhyme

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Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« on: 2 Apr 2011, 12:42 pm »
Hi Guys

Just joined audiocircle as I am scouring the net for BCD-1 impressions and came across the long thread with BCD-1 reviews.
Looking for a more precise and subjective decription of the players sound signature.
Case is: I found a used BCD-1 for sale in my country Denmark where the BCD-1, from new, is quite an expensive player (5300$). Used I can get it for 1700$. As the seller resides in the other end of my country I have to figure out if it's something for me before I make the long drive.
Hope you guys can help me nail down the characteristics of the BCD-1's

By now I have probably read all online reviews but I don't like that most reviewers use terms like "dry" and "lean"
Which to me sounds negative. When I hear terms like that I think: thin, bright and boring sounding  I like a highly resolved, involving, full bodied musical presentation. I really dislike bright sounding equipment. On the other hand I also dislike colored valve sound. But then again the reviews all find the BCD-1 very musical so I must understand their use of words wrong  :scratch:

Btw
I run a pair of AudioPhysic Virgo25 speakers and a PrimareI30 amp(to be replaced when I find the right successer)
Hope some of you owners of this highly regarded machine can help me

Thankyou in advance

Kind regards from Denmark
NR


1oldguy

Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #1 on: 2 Apr 2011, 01:39 pm »
Trust me...The sound is anything but thin or shrill.It has a precision to details that I would never want to be without.It gives to my ear a kind of superb vinyl pleasantness but with all the wonderful nuance would one expect out of a world class player.
You wont do much better,but you can do far worse than the BCD-1.   

Diamond Dog

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Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #2 on: 2 Apr 2011, 02:54 pm »

Greetings from Canada ! It's a fabulous player - do not hesitate. Detail and drive without fatigue even during long listening sessions. Putting this unit into my system really reinforced for me the difference having a great front-end makes if you want a really enjoyable system. I listen to a wide variety of music and the BCD-1 handles them all with aplomb from Thin Lizzy to Tchaikovsky.

As long as they adhere to the Redbook standard...Hi James !   :wave: :lol:

D.D.
 

Phil A

Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #3 on: 2 Apr 2011, 03:01 pm »
Welcome to the forum.  I owned the BCD-1 when it first came out and then picked up a slightly used (3 week old) BDA-1 at a good price and sold the BCD-1.  They were not there at the same time as the BCD-1 was going out the door at the same time but they sound virtually the same to me.  I ended up with more than one digital source and will likely end up with more.  For me I find the DAC much more useful in that regard and no drive to worry about and you can play higher resolution stuff than standard CD.  The BCD-1 is a nice player and is well worth $1,700.

Sasha

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Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #4 on: 2 Apr 2011, 04:17 pm »
If neutral is to be used as measuring stick (neutral meaning the sound of live unamplified acoustic instruments and voice), in a neutral system BCD-1 cannot be characterized as "dry" and "lean", if anything it goes the opposite side of neutral as being a bit more “rich” and “warm”.
 I compared it side to side with many players, for example when comparing it to Wadia 581iSE, Wadia was leaner, had more definition in low end, while BCD-1 was warmer with more body and less definition in low end and had richer upper bass/lower midrange. In other words, BCD-1 is very easy to listen to.

nightrhyme

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Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #5 on: 2 Apr 2011, 05:31 pm »
Thanx so much for reply
Keep'em coming and as subjective as possible please  :wink:

Utter flattery from you guys  :green:
hehe was expecting that.

Still would like to hear from someone who might feel different and why ?
Afterall, all good things have faults. The BCD must have some, however small. One could be the tray as I have read a lot of bad comments on that ?

I rather hear the not so good things now than buying and finding out later.

For now I have learned that:
  • The tray is very noisy and sometimes malfunctions
  • It will not play some hidden tracks


In my research on the net I also found some people who ended up having a hard time choosing between the Cambridge 840c. That baffles me. Here The 840c is considered a cheap and mediocre player. It's like 1500$. You could get 3 for the price of a BCD-1.

Sasha

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Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #6 on: 2 Apr 2011, 06:11 pm »
No flattery from me, I described where it stands relative the perception rooted in some reviews, where it is relative what I consider neutral and where it stands relative some top dogs.
I did not say it was the best out there, it is not, but your question was if it was "dry" and "lean", and it is not.
You are now also asking about noisy tray and malfunctions.
The tray is relatively noisy when compared to others, not during the payback though, if that is what you meant. So in my book it has no relevance.
If by malfunctions you mean lockup during playback, or inability to read reliably or at all some tracks that other players can (and that is not limited to hidden ones only), it is true, for example there were some CDRs as well as some commercial CDs that BCD-1 could not read while the mentioned Wadia could, or that BCD-1 would lock during playback while Wadia would never do that. But again, it happens on a rare occasion, mostly with CDRs, and restart of player always takes care of that. Again not a big deal in my book and that may have been resolved since then (I was an early adopter).
If you want the absolute best that is ultimately neutral, dynamic, detailed, natural, without any glitches, then start talking 10K and more, and never again mention $5300, let alone $1700.
I will say this though, for the double price in Canada or US there is no better one I came across. And to hear the difference between Wadia and BCD-1 you will need a resolute and neutral system, so keep that in mind as well. There are people that will tell you it is better to go with an ordinary transport and DAC that is “immune” to jitter, but there is no such thing as "immunity” to jitter, it can be attenuated but not eliminated, and the best transport>DAC is still not as good as well executed spinner, most likely never will be, as long as we stay on the same playing field of 16/44.1.

Diamond Dog

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Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #7 on: 2 Apr 2011, 07:05 pm »

Hello ( again ):  I would say that Sasha has offered up a fair and full critique on this unit. My own experiences mesh with his re: the issue of the drawer during loading ( agree that it's a non-issue once the music starts ) and as I mentioned earlier, the drive is restrictive in terms of discs which deviate from the Redbook standard. I have not personally experienced any "lock-up" in the time I have owned the unit. In terms of sonics, I would also concur with Sasha's assessment of the BCD-1.  Not "romanced" or lush but certainly not dry or the sort of sound which makes you want to go and do something other than listen to music. I would add that you may find that the display is smaller than you might wish. The actual build quality is well beyond any other cdp I have owned and IMO better than the Cambridge unit you referred to. You may not like the remote it comes with if your preference runs towards lightweight and plasticky. It has been described in one review as "brick-like" but I personally like the heft of it.
 It's not a question of flattery -I auditioned several players, many of which were from manufacturers with a lot more pedigree than Bryston in terms of cdp's. As you said, the unit comes with a substantial price tag but to my ears, it was the best choice for me and good value for money. My hard-earned money. YMMV. If it sounds as though I like this unit when asked to express my opinion on it, it's because I like this unit. I wouldn't have purchased it otherwise. Lord knows there is no shortage of other cdp's to choose from. Have fun.

D.D.   

nightrhyme

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Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #8 on: 2 Apr 2011, 07:28 pm »
Thank you so much for your detailed replies.

Didn't mean to twist your words by calling them flattery and yes I probably went ahead of myself wanting to hear potential faults with the player. Was thinking it but didn't write it in my initial post :oops:

By malfuntions in drive yes I mean lockup and inability to read. I'm not expecting Wadia or Audio Aero capabilities. Just as good as my old Arcam Aplha 8se which, by the way, has never refused to read an original disk nor any hidden tracks. Sure it dislikes some cheap CD-R's

I don't need the absolutely best. Just better than say: Roksan caspian M2, Naim cd5x, Primare cd31, Cyrus 8se, Densen B420 just to name a few.

I see you also use the term "neutral" that's also a word I don't quite understand and hence in my perception tends to be a negative term. I tend to think ultra-detail retrieval and boring which doesn't match the term "musical" as stated by most reviews, hence my confusion. I have never heard any neutral equipment. To my ears all equipment has a flavor to it. For instance: I heard just about all Dynaudio speakers up to Ultimate Consequence. Dynaudio is characterized by audiophiles as being neutral. Apart from the really expensive ones, say from C4 -> Consequence Ultimate I found them deep bass lacking and harsh in the treble. But in general I found them all much to constrained and holding the musical enjoyment back. That probably confused my perception of "neutrality"

You say for the double price in Canada and US there is no better CDP. Is that like (2 X 2500$US ) ?

By the way I totally agree with you regarding a dedicated CDP vs DAC + Transport

Sasha and Diamond Dog could you share info on what equipment you own ?

Sorry for my long ramblings. trying to learn a thing or two as well as getting a clear picture of the BCD-1 :oops:




 


vegasdave

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Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #9 on: 2 Apr 2011, 08:39 pm »
It's a good, solid unit. It doesn't pretend to be anything else.

redbook

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Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #10 on: 2 Apr 2011, 09:31 pm »
I have had this player for a year and a half. All the comments above from our fellow members are accurate (like the player). The BCD1 has given me more musical information than I ever knew there was on a redbook record. Go for it, you will never regret the purchase.  :banana piano: :rock: :beer: :wine: :dance:

redbook

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Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #11 on: 2 Apr 2011, 09:34 pm »
Me again. One objective complaint would be the rather clunky tray. This has no bearing on the performance however.  :violin:

rmurray

Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #12 on: 2 Apr 2011, 09:40 pm »
A great player in all respects. I have had various fine units but this one is a keeper. I did get slightly tighter focus when I added a different power cord.

nightrhyme

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Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #13 on: 2 Apr 2011, 10:10 pm »
Again thanx for replies.

Find it somewhat hard communicating with you as all my posts has to be approved.

By now I have 2 replies pending

Couldn't find any info on this peculiar procedure. I feel censored....

VOLKS

Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #14 on: 3 Apr 2011, 03:28 am »
Hello Nightrhyme,
                         I will try to give a subjective view on the BCD-1.
The BCD-1 is on par with most CDP in the 2K-3K range build quaility wise(which is to say its very well built).It is not overly heavy nor does it have any real "Style" about it in the "Looks" dept,except maybe a "Plain Jane" look.You would never believe this is a $2900 CDP by just looking at it,but of course this is Brystons style and most Bryston owners would not want it any other way.
                         The Remote is also built like a tank.Its very heavy and excudes quality(just dont drop it on your toe :duh: ) A few gripes function wise for me are the fact that it does not play burned CD's very well at all.The LCD display on the front is not big enough and can be hard to see what track # and playing time is left from a distance and yes the CD tray is IMO clunky/noisy.....this is something that i feel is not on par with other CDP in the 2K-3K price range.
                          The sound to my ears of the BCD-1 is very dynamic,upfront,forward.The BCD-1 is very,very unforgiving with mediocre or poorly recorded music....having said that ...you will hear "Warts and All" with the BCD-1 even if the recording is great.This CDP does NOT lie or colour the music in any way.Its very blunt and can be somewhat over-analytical and somewhat dry at times on certain types of music and i think for some listeners this may cause a little fatigue(especially when paired with a complete Bryston system) for others however ......it is bliss.
                          Overall i was  pleased with the Bryston BCD-1 and did not regret buying it.However i will caution that you must want/like a forward/blunt sound that reveals EVERYTHING in a recording the Good :D.....the Bad :( .....and the Ugly :evil:.    I would rate it 8/10


Main System:Mcintosh MC452 Amplifer,Mcintosh C50 Preamp,Mcintosh MCD 500 CDP,KEF Reference 207/2's Speakers,Grant Fidelity Reference Tube CD-1000 Player Impression II,Acoustic Zen Absolute Shotgun Speaker Cables,Krell K.I.D Dock,Jungson MRCA-1 Gold Coated Copper Reference Interconnects (Golden Dragon),Clearaudio Concept TT,Torus CS15 Power Conditioners/Surge Protector.SolidTech "Rack of Silence"Reference 4 Audio Stand.

JohnR

Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #15 on: 3 Apr 2011, 03:40 am »
Again thanx for replies.

Find it somewhat hard communicating with you as all my posts has to be approved.

By now I have 2 replies pending

Couldn't find any info on this peculiar procedure. I feel censored....

It's our SOP, and it was right there in front of you when you clicked "I agree" on the registration form. But you're out of the "introductory phase" now, post away ;)

VOLKS

Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #16 on: 3 Apr 2011, 03:53 am »
The tray sound is lovely.

Nap.  :P


LoL !!  :thumb:

Diamond Dog

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Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #17 on: 3 Apr 2011, 05:47 am »
Hello Nightrhyme: My BCD-1 is my only music source in a ( deliberately ) simple system which also includes a Manley Jumbo Shrimp preamp and Bryston 7B SST2 monoblock power amps. Speakers are PMC FB1i's.

re: your reference points as to other cdp's - I have heard the Roksan and Cyrus units you mentioned and of the two, the Cyrus would be more to my taste. The Bryston sounds better than either to my ears. Interesting gthat you should reference the Arcam unit - I own two and have been listening to both while my BCD-1 was out of service. I pulled my Alpha 5 Plus out first as I had not used it in years and was curious. I didn't really get much time to develop a revised impression as after the first ( short ) listening session, I shut it down and it wouldn't power up again. Next up, my Delta 270, Arcam's "reference" player until the introduction of the Alpha 9 with the ring DAC. This unit would be roughly equivalent to your Alpha 8SE. It does indeed read CD's which my BCD-1 will not read ( this has been a rare issue up to this point ) and the drawer opens quietly and rather slowly but beyond that, it is badly outclassed by the Bryston in every way. I set up my BCD-1 again this evening so a head-to-head of the two cdp's on the same disc ( 100 Days, 100 Nights by Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings ) is fresh in my mind. The first thing you notice ( and it is not subtle ) is how much more realistic the various instruments sound via the Bryston. That is to say, brass sounds like brass, the reediness of a baritone sax is there for you to experience and enjoy, the sound of a rimshot sounds right.  Vocals are better-defined and presented well. Soundstage is wide,deep and stable with lots of space around voices and instruments and I can hear vocal parts etc. low in the mix which eluded the Arcam. All the joyous vitality and drive which is the hallmark of this kind of music is offered up rather than muffled by an artificially-warm presentation. No lack of bottom end drive here - the kick drum and bass lines propell the music along as one would hope for when listening to a band steeped in the Motown / Stax tradition... It's a fun listen!

re: "neutral" - I think that in these parts ( The Bryston community on AC ), those of us who own this equipment gravitate towards it because it presents what is there on any given recording and that's where it ends. Mission accomplished. There is no ultra-detail and accompanying annoying sibilance and harshness in current Bryston gear that I have heard. It simply takes what is there in a recording and presents it to the listener without adding to or subtracting from the recording's characteristics. It is what it is and the listener can draw their own conclusions without having had any of the rough edges polished off or the vitality and excitement drained away in order to provide a "relaxing " ( read: boring ) listening experience.

re: value for money - IMHO you would have to spend a lot more for anything other than a marginal improvement in performance. The law of diminishing returns goes into full effect right around here.

Hope this helps.

D.D.   

Sasha

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Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #18 on: 3 Apr 2011, 12:43 pm »
I will chime in once again with another comparison, Audio Aero Capitole player (top tray and tube output) versa BCD-1. What Audio Aero reproduced was what I call dry and lean, with no foundation of any kind in the low end, yet is costs significantly more than BCD-1 in Canada. And despite having so compromised low end Audio Aero did not dig out any more details than BCD-1 (what is the impression you usually get in such cases).
Players were heard in the same system/room.
If you have a lot of CDs and want a very good dedicated player, there is no better performance/price ratio offered than what you get from BCD-1.

Mag

Re: Bryston BCD-1 need subjective input
« Reply #19 on: 3 Apr 2011, 01:41 pm »
My .02 cents.

What the BCD-1 does as well as the BDA-1 is it boosts bass freq. to a realistic presentation of live music. With your typical source output, bass is somewhat flat sounding, due to the Fletcher Munson Curve, and sounds unrealistic.

I tried using an graphic equalizer to boost these freq. prior to the BCD-1, which was not good because of the distortion it adds. With the BCD-1 I got the desired bass output I was seeking without the equalizer. 8)