[AirKuhl]

I have recently really been getting into surround audio and I may have an opportunity to create a dedicated listening/HT room.  I'm interested in creating a system that first and foremost is optimized for surround audio, secondarily stereo audio, and lastly movies.  In other words, there will be full range music coming from the satellite speakers helping to create a 3D soundstage, as opposed to just whooshy sound effects in movies.  I am impressed with the Salk products and hope to get some advice here for the preamp/amp/speaker chain.  I'm a musician/engineer and know the pro gear pretty well but not the home audio as much.

Parameters:
Room would be a converted 2 car garage, carpet over cement floor, 9' ceiling, basically rectangular.
Preamp or receiver needs to be video friendly as well, with support for at least 3 HDMI video sources and 2 audio sources
I'm attaching a crappy pic of the room as it sits today.  You'll notice the limited room I have to work with for the L/R pair due to the media closets.  Can't imagine that having the speakers way up in those cutouts above the screen would make sense.  Maybe have to wall mount them, I dunno.  That little black square below the cabinet is a sub closet.
I'm very picky about the high end and value non-fatiguing treble and a large, focused soundstage over total accuracy and massive bass response.
I listen to just about anything, but mostly complicated prog style rock and acoustic guitar based songs, with a lot of focus on vocal harmonies.
Budget is ~$15K.



Thanks!

[charmerci]

Of course, you start here! (With other Salkaholics coming soon to give you other suggestions.  )

http://www.salksound.com/speakers_hts.shtml

They are designed to be in-wall or against the wall.

[Art_Chicago]

Budget is ~$15K.

Welcome!
with the budget like this I'd get 5 Songtowers (5-7 K)  and a couple of subs, keeping the change for beer
I think Zybar has HT based on ST's.

[Wayner]

I know that Jim has 2 HT-3s and a matching center channel speaker that will be returned to his shop shortly, ready for immediate shipment. However, the surround speakers can't be matched as the veneer is all gone. However, he may be able to find something that kind of matches. The center piece is mounted horizontally (I think). Ask Jim. Could have 3 of the 5 pieces in short order. They also have super premium wiring and other deluxe features.

Wayner 

[AirKuhl]

Thanks for the suggestions! I LOVE the way the HT-1 and HT-3's look, which is important to the wife-approval factor.  Can the HT-1's be flown if needed?

 Keep in mind that my budget is not just the speakers, it's for the pre-amp/amps too.

[Nuance]

AirKuhl,

This is going to be a good time, and the results will be most gratifying.  Just be sure to take your time and weigh in all the options. 

Your budget is nice, but have you thought about using a 2-channel (or 2.1) preamp with HT bypass for music and a decent receiver or preamp for movies?  The reason I ask is because the only completely functioning processor/pre that isn't riddled with some sort of issue or flaw and that will fulfill your requirements is the Anthem D2v (to my best knowledge).  And I believe it costs somewhere between 6 and 7 thousand, which is a large chunk of your budget.  If you can swing it I say go for it.  My buddy has one and it's quite an amazing piece.  However, it is very pricey, so something like the Parasound P7 (which has subwoofer outputs) might be more practical.  Just a thought...

Okay, so before I continue I need to ask some important questions:

- What are the exact dimensions of the room?
- How far away will you be sitting?
- How loud do you plan on listening?
- Do you want to go with sealed, ported or passive subwoofers (yes, I said subwoofers )?
- Can you place the subs(s) somewhere other than that tiny subwoofer closet?  Honestly, it's pretty small, and if you want the best like you said you did, you'll want bigger subs, and preferably more than one...which leads to my next question...
- Can you accommodate various different locations for multiple subwoofers?  If so you'll be able to achieve a smoother in-room response, while also achieving more envelopment.
- Will you be allowed (WAF) to install room treatments?

Once those questions have been answered we'll be able to better help you regarding options and what not.

Sorry to answer your questions with questions.  What I can tell you now is that the speaker you chose is going to effect the other components recommended to you (power, room treatments, subwoofers, etc).  With that in mind  I recommend concentrating on those first.  Once you decide, then it will be easier to recommend the other components. 

Just my $0.02

[rahimlee54]

I'd also look into room treatments if I had that kind of cash to spend all at once.  I'd pick up separate AMP and Pre used and get as much speaker as possible with the leftover.  That HT3 return Wayner mentioned sounded good .  Basically what everyone else said +1.

[zybar]

Budget is ~$15K.

Welcome!
with the budget like this I'd get 5 Songtowers (5-7 K)  and a couple of subs, keeping the change for beer
I think Zybar has HT based on ST's.

I do indeed.

Five ST's do great job in the theater and give me all I need to enjoy a movie, concert, or sporting event.  While I know there is better out there, I honestly don't think about speakers...just which Bluray disc I want to play next.   

George

[AirKuhl]

AirKuhl,

This is going to be a good time, and the results will be most gratifying.  Just be sure to take your time and weigh in all the options. 

Your budget is nice, but have you thought about using a 2-channel (or 2.1) preamp with HT bypass for music and a decent receiver or preamp for movies?  The reason I ask is because the only completely functioning processor/pre that isn't riddled with some sort of issue or flaw and that will fulfill your requirements is the Anthem D2v (to my best knowledge).  And I believe it costs somewhere between 6 and 7 thousand, which is a large chunk of your budget.  If you can swing it I say go for it.  My buddy has one and it's quite an amazing piece.  However, it is very pricey, so something like the Parasound P7 (which has subwoofer outputs) might be more practical.  Just a thought...

Okay, so before I continue I need to ask some important questions:

- What are the exact dimensions of the room?
- How far away will you be sitting?
- How loud do you plan on listening?
- Do you want to go with sealed, ported or passive subwoofers (yes, I said subwoofers )?
- Can you place the subs(s) somewhere other than that tiny subwoofer closet?  Honestly, it's pretty small, and if you want the best like you said you did, you'll want bigger subs, and preferably more than one...which leads to my next question...
- Can you accommodate various different locations for multiple subwoofers?  If so you'll be able to achieve a smoother in-room response, while also achieving more envelopment.
- Will you be allowed (WAF) to install room treatments?

Once those questions have been answered we'll be able to better help you regarding options and what not.

Sorry to answer your questions with questions.  What I can tell you now is that the speaker you chose is going to effect the other components recommended to you (power, room treatments, subwoofers, etc).  With that in mind  I recommend concentrating on those first.  Once you decide, then it will be easier to recommend the other components. 

Just my $0.02

No apologies needed, this is exactly the level of detail I was hoping for.

A separate stereo music system is not really a consideration because my main goal is building a surround audio listening environment.  I realize content is sparse, but fortunately my favorite musician/producer releases all his work in 5.1 versions (DTS and also DVD-A) and is currently working on remastering a back catalog of other artists to surround mixes.  Obviously I'll still be listening to a lot of stereo mixes as well.

I'll be sitting approx 12.5 feet from the "front" of the room, slightly behind the centerpoint of the 22' axis, facing the 17' wall.

One major limitation will be that I can't place the speakers very far from the walls for various reasons.  Perhaps 1' max.

The room is 17x22.  If you look at the crappy pic above, you'll see an additional bit of width on the 22' axis for that window seat.  There is also a short hallway and peaked ceiling, so I hope to avoid most of the standing wave issues.  Keep in mind the location of the media closets in the pic above, it limits my front L/R speaker placement.

Volume levels will vary by time of day, from concert level to reading level.  Most of the stuff I like to listen to fortunately isn't loudness squashed, so there is some substantial dynamic range available as well.  I would guess an 80-90dB peak for the heavier stuff during critical listening.

I'm not married to any particular sub design, nor to stuffing it in that little closet.

I can definitely do room treatments provided they are flat, as opposed to studio style diffusers.  My wife can do whatever fabric treatment she likes on them and everyone's happy.

[K Shep]

I know that Jim has 2 HT-3s and a matching center channel speaker that will be returned to his shop shortly, ready for immediate shipment. However, the surround speakers can't be matched as the veneer is all gone. However, he may be able to find something that kind of matches. The center piece is mounted horizontally (I think). Ask Jim. Could have 3 of the 5 pieces in short order. They also have super premium wiring and other deluxe features.

Wayner 

I may be the only one that got your joke Wayner.  I think your speaking of the Ebony Ht-3s that have a couple of skid marks on them?

Kirk

[Wayner]

It's no joke. I was with Jim Salk all weekend at RMAF.

Wayner

[K Shep]

There I go trying to read into a members sarcasm again.

I apologize Wayner.  I thought you were refering to these:

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii365/grantc79/IMG_0250.jpg

Kirk

[modode]

Given your 5.1 listening interests, I'd get the best available receiver rather than some exotic pre/pro separate setup given your budget.  The Arcam AVR 600 fits the bill.  Google the reviews, which are univerally stellar.  A rare combination of excellent musicality and HT performance.

Sample review:  http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/arcam_avr600_av_receiver/#

I'd couple that with 5 SongTower RT's (the ones with the ribbon tweeter upgrade), and the Epik Conquest subwoofer.

Arcam AVR 600 - $5000
SongTower RT's X 5 - $6500
Epik Conquest - $1600

with a few bucks leftover for cables etc.  Throw in an Oppo BD-83 universal Bluray/SACD/DVD/CD player if you want for another $500 bucks.

Simple setup.  Audio nirvana.

[srb]

I'd couple that with 5 SongTower RT's (the ones with the ribbon tweeter upgrade), and the Epik Conquest subwoofer.

Arcam AVR 600 - $5000
SongTower RT's X 5 - $6500
Epik Conquest - $1600

Simple setup.  Audio nirvana.

Not familiar with the Epik SW, but the recommendation of the Arcam and the RT's sounds like a winning combination.
 
So the Left and Right Fronts would presumably go between the spaces between the entertainment built-in and the doors (looks like it would be more suited to the widths of the SongTowers or HT1-TL/HT2 more than the HT3's anyway), but where would the center go?
 
Steve

[savefarris]

I'd couple that with 5 SongTower RT's (the ones with the ribbon tweeter upgrade), and the Epik Conquest subwoofer.

Arcam AVR 600 - $5000
SongTower RT's X 5 - $6500
Epik Conquest - $1600


Simple setup.  Audio nirvana.

Epik stopped selling the conquest, still have some great offerings but no longer sell the big boy.  for a few bucks more, i would look into the seaton submersive (seaton-sound-forum.com)

also with a $15k budget I wouldnt be afraid to look at the HT3 with HT1s as surrounds

[AirKuhl]

I'd couple that with 5 SongTower RT's (the ones with the ribbon tweeter upgrade), and the Epik Conquest subwoofer.

Arcam AVR 600 - $5000
SongTower RT's X 5 - $6500
Epik Conquest - $1600

Simple setup.  Audio nirvana.

Not familiar with the Epik SW, but the recommendation of the Arcam and the RT's sounds like a winning combination.
 
So the Left and Right Fronts would presumably go between the spaces between the entertainment built-in and the doors (looks like it would be more suited to the widths of the SongTowers or HT1-TL/HT2 more than the HT3's anyway), but where would the center go?
 
Steve

Good eye.  I would probably put the center right below the screen (where a receiver is sitting in the pic above).  It's roughly ear height and also about the same height as the tweeters in the L/R speakers.  Maybe I'm old school but I have an issue with speakers well up above ear height as I've seen in many HT setups.

I'd have to figure out where to put the electronics, but that is solvable.  Perhaps rack mount in one of the closets.....

[Nuance]

$5000 for a receiver?  No offense, but he might as well just pop the extra grand or so and get the Arcam D2v. 

AirKuhl ,

Since you don't foresee being able to move the speakers more than 1' from the boundaries, I have a hard time recommending the HT3's.  Not to mention your comment about the media closet and limited placement, which I now see exactly what you mean by re-looking at that picture.  The HT3's will also need a considerable amount of power in order to be driven to "concert levels."  Honestly, I have a hard time recommending tower-style speakers at all, considering how close they'll need to be to the boundaries and due to the media closet door being in the way.  srb also makes a good point about a full SongTower being used as a center intruding into the middle of your TV viewing.

I guess my vote is for HT1's or the HTS series speakers.  Since you want to listen to prog (great music, by the way) at concert levels I'd go with Salk's most efficient bookshelf sized speaker.  I love Salk sound, but I also might be inclined to recommend something like the Tripple 8's or Seaton Catalysts/Sparks, all things considered. 

You mentioned this will be a dedicated room, so are there any plans to change the layout or anything like that?  Right now based on that pic (and all things considered) I cannot picture tower speakers in that room.  Maybe more/better pics would help?

[rahimlee54]

It's been a while since I have read about Seaton but wouldn't the catalyst put him around 10k just for speakers?  I also like the suggestion about the Submersive, from checking the specs a while back those things look amazing.  I really like arcam stuff but I think 5k for an AVR is a little crazy, the connections are just going to get outdated in a few years anyway, but you cant go wrong with Arcam, at least the few pieces I have heard by them.

[xls7]

It's been a while since I have read about Seaton but wouldn't the catalyst put him around 10k just for speakers?

Yes, but Seaton speakers are powered, so he would not need to add amplification.

I'm sure the processors and receivers people are recommending are fantastic, but I agree with the people who are saying that the technology for those changes pretty quickly.  In general I prefer to spend my budget in inverse proportion to the pace of technology change - in this case, most of it on speakers, subs, and amps (if needed), with comparatively less spent on a processor/receiver that will be outdated sooner.  Maybe that's just me, though - and keep in mind that I am still using my 8-year-old receiver as my preamp.

[modode]

Considering the comments above and your room constraints, another option would be HT1's X 5 all around.  The sound would be similar or better than the ST's, and the form factor works much better in that room.  For 5.1 audio, I think it'd probably be beneficial to stay with the same speaker all around.

A Seaton Submersive sub or top of the line Hsu or Epik sub would round out the speaker set up nicely.  The Epik Phoenix in particular has excellent performance/WAF ratio, with it's 18'' driver contained in only a 22'' cube cabinet.

A saner (and perhaps better) option for the electronics would be a lower level but still high quality receiver as the preamp.  I just ordered the Onkyo TX-SR 876 for my HT setup, because of positive reviews of the unit and it's components (Burr-Brown DAC, HQV Reon video processing).  Plus, it's "last year's model" and thus can be found online for <$1000.

Couple the Onkyo with an Emotiva XPA-5 amp (FIVE CHANNEL AMP 200 watts RMS x 5 into 8 ohms | 350 watts RMS x 5 into 4 ohms - $799 ships for $25 (within continental US)).  Or, you could go with AVA amps, the Insight 240/3 for the fronts and the Insight 240 for the rears for about $2100 total.  Emotiva and AVA are both excellent amps, especially for the price.

The above would save considerable money on the electronics, and overall would still stay less than your 15K budget.