[BobMajor]

I got a good deal on a used Ridge Street Audio Aletius! USB cable and my system now sounds like it had a major system upgrade. The sound stage is much clearer than before, the bass is much better defined. Interestingly, I've had to turn the volume knob down on all recordings.

[kaka]

While I wait for my Polestar (one Positive feedback reviewer preferred it to the Axis musically, another didn't, so its a starting point) I swapped out the cable that came with the offramp for the one that came with the RWA Isabella. Everything became smoother but the level of detail dropped away, so it's back to the EA cable

[indirstr8s]

Steve,
Being that you need Remote for RMAF, have you thought about trying Squeeze Center to a Transporter, then AES/EBU out to your stuff?  That way you can use the iTouch//iPhone (iPeng is a Squeeze Center-based iPhone app identical to REMOTE) and quantify the sonics of doing ethernet stream 24/96 vs MAC 24/96 vs PC/Foobar (not a remote option, though).

Yes, I've though about it.  This would work fine.  I have customers using Transporter with Pace-Car 2.  Howeever, for RMAF though I dont want to give the impression that it's the Transporter that is delivering the good sound quality.  This is the first thing that people will assume when they see the Transporter.

For RMAF, the 24/96 source will probably be:

Mac Mini -> USB -> Tascam US-144 -> TacT active crossover -> 2 Pace-Cars -> 2 Overdrive DACs -> 4 Battery powered amps - Speakers

Steve N.

For multiple synchronous streams (X-high stereo, X-low stereo in ur case), is it not dangerous to pass each stream through independent FIFO's. The FIFO's usually have a small band of variable latency and two independent FIFO's can thus cause a phase lag between two streams, which might be audible.

Ideally you would want to pass both the streams through a wider single fifo, so that rd/wr ptrs are common for both the streams.

Or In this case you might tune the phase delay with the crossover, after power up.

Sanjay Garg

[ted_b]

For multiple streaming channels (X-high, X-low in ur case), is it not dangerous to pass each stream through independent FIFO's. The FIFO's usually have a small band of variable latency and two independent FIFO's can thus cause a phase lag between two streams, which might be audible.

Ideally you would want to pass a merged fatter steam through a wide fifo, so that rd/wr ptrs are common for both the streams.

Or In this case you might tune the phase delay with the crossover, after power up.

Sanjay Garg

 
Does this mean I need a merged fatter steam?  Or a wider fifo? 

[indirstr8s]

For multiple streaming channels (X-high, X-low in ur case), is it not dangerous to pass each stream through independent FIFO's. The FIFO's usually have a small band of variable latency and two independent FIFO's can thus cause a phase lag between two streams, which might be audible.

Ideally you would want to pass a merged fatter steam through a wide fifo, so that rd/wr ptrs are common for both the streams.

Or In this case you might tune the phase delay with the crossover, after power up.

Sanjay Garg

 
Does this mean I need a merged fatter steam?  Or a wider fifo?

I modified it for better readability.

[ted_b]

Nevermind.  Sorry, my attempt at a joke was lame.  You indeed cleaned it up; now it's Modern Greek vs Ancient Greek (i.e my point was that your highly technical talk is probably better served as a PM, in that most of us looking for good USB cable discussions don't understand a word of what you're trying to tell Steve about his proposed implementation).  Not a big deal, I shouldn't have even started this, but i wanted to close the loop.

So, back on topic, it seems that USB cable quality/architecture/construction does make a big difference.  However, when using a converter device like an OffRamp does this partially negate the effects (i.e you can get away with better, not best)?

[satfrat]

Nevermind.  Sorry, my attempt at a joke was lame.  You indeed cleaned it up; now it's Modern Greek vs Ancient Greek (i.e my point was that your highly technical talk is probably better served as a PM, in that most of us looking for good USB cable discussions don't understand a word of what you're trying to tell Steve about his proposed implementation).  Not a big deal, I shouldn't have even started this, but i wanted to close the loop.

So, back on topic, it seems that USB cable quality/architecture/construction does make a big difference.  However, when using a converter device like an OffRamp does this partially negate the effects (i.e you can get away with better, not best)?

That's certainly not the case in my system using a mid quality WMA library with the Off-Ramp 3 and J.River/Asioforall interface. The improvement was huge going from Belkin/Kimber to the Axis and when comparing the Axis to the Nucleus, things really went up a notch. It wasn't as drastic but sustantial enough so i couldn't return the Nucleus and just keep the Axis.

With the huge differences in gear and interface, I think the only way to really know is to compare cables and see for yourself which is more desirable for you. Example, for Jeff Day it was the Polestar but for his close friend Stephaen it was the Axis. I wish both could and do demo the Nucleus for review.

Cheers,
Robin

[ivanfx]

That's certainly not the case in my system using a mid quality WMA library with the Off-Ramp 3 and J.River/Asioforall interface. The improvement was huge going from Belkin/Kimber to the Axis and when comparing the Axis to the Nucleus, things really went up a notch. It wasn't as drastic but sustantial enough so i couldn't return the Nucleus and just keep the Axis.

you are not keeping your library in lossless and using lossy WMA?!?!?!?! is it true?

[audioengr]

Steve,
Being that you need Remote for RMAF, have you thought about trying Squeeze Center to a Transporter, then AES/EBU out to your stuff?  That way you can use the iTouch//iPhone (iPeng is a Squeeze Center-based iPhone app identical to REMOTE) and quantify the sonics of doing ethernet stream 24/96 vs MAC 24/96 vs PC/Foobar (not a remote option, though).

Yes, I've though about it.  This would work fine.  I have customers using Transporter with Pace-Car 2.  Howeever, for RMAF though I dont want to give the impression that it's the Transporter that is delivering the good sound quality.  This is the first thing that people will assume when they see the Transporter.

For RMAF, the 24/96 source will probably be:

Mac Mini -> USB -> Tascam US-144 -> TacT active crossover -> 2 Pace-Cars -> 2 Overdrive DACs -> 4 Battery powered amps - Speakers

Steve N.

For multiple synchronous streams (X-high stereo, X-low stereo in ur case), is it not dangerous to pass each stream through independent FIFO's. The FIFO's usually have a small band of variable latency and two independent FIFO's can thus cause a phase lag between two streams, which might be audible.

Ideally you would want to pass both the streams through a wider single fifo, so that rd/wr ptrs are common for both the streams.

Or In this case you might tune the phase delay with the crossover, after power up.

Sanjay Garg

Sanjay - you and I definitely think alike.  I had thought of this.  In this case, since the streams are really in-sync out of the TacT, it will not be an audible delay.

However, In future systems that use two or three datastreams over ethernet to different receivers, the skew betwen the streams will be different, depending on the arbitration of the Ethernet channel etc..  Therefore, I plan to provide a synchronizing event at start-up between several Pace-Cars.  Essentially, all Pace-Cars hold-back on issuing data output until all of them have data waiting in the FIFO.  This may require a larger FIFO than the one I'm currently using.

Steve N.

[kaka]

While I wait for my Polestar (one Positive feedback reviewer preferred it to the Axis musically, another didn't, so its a starting point) I swapped out the cable that came with the offramp for the one that came with the RWA Isabella. Everything became smoother but the level of detail dropped away, so it's back to the EA cable

Running the Polestar in was interesting - in the first 100-120 hours I noted that it had brought out musical textures, details and nuances that hadn't been audible before, but the top end was rolled off. It didn't seem to be changing so I sent an email to Lee at Locus who replied that it did need the 150 hours that is noted on the sheet that comes with it.

Well the next 24 hours transformed things - the top end burst into life and I'm very pleased with the result. Its way better than my stock cables.

[Imperial]

Hi!
Are you guys aware of the fact that there now exists powersupplies for home computers that
look like this:

Waddayaknow! An USB hub, with "more than" 0.5amps pr USB socket I believe!!! This is a Hiper Type R MK II.
So, in addition to that USB cable you now have a posibility of outputting the usb stream from the
computer with a really strong "power" part in the cable as well!

I find this to be great news!!! A test on 3dGuru (G Hagedoorn testing the Hiper) also add:
"For the audiophiles .. this PSU just doesn't make any noticeable noise."... 
Tagan has one that has a "specialized" USB powerline, for better power to the motherboards usb ports. Neat stuff!


So the usb that goes out of the motherboard could be hampered by the fact that power from there
could be limited, so it restricts how many usb devices you can attatch. But this one more or less help out in this regard!!!

Imp.

[cryoparts]

While I wait for my Polestar (one Positive feedback reviewer preferred it to the Axis musically, another didn't, so its a starting point) I swapped out the cable that came with the offramp for the one that came with the RWA Isabella. Everything became smoother but the level of detail dropped away, so it's back to the EA cable

Running the Polestar in was interesting - in the first 100-120 hours I noted that it had brought out musical textures, details and nuances that hadn't been audible before, but the top end was rolled off. It didn't seem to be changing so I sent an email to Lee at Locus who replied that it did need the 150 hours that is noted on the sheet that comes with it.

Well the next 24 hours transformed things - the top end burst into life and I'm very pleased with the result. Its way better than my stock cables.

Cool, thanks for the kind words.  Glad the cable is working out.

Peace,

Lee

[audioengr]

Hi!
Are you guys aware of the fact that there now exists powersupplies for home computers that
look like this:

Waddayaknow! An USB hub, with "more than" 0.5amps pr USB socket I believe!!! This is a Hiper Type R MK II.
So, in addition to that USB cable you now have a posibility of outputting the usb stream from the
computer with a really strong "power" part in the cable as well!

I find this to be great news!!! A test on 3dGuru (G Hagedoorn testing the Hiper) also add:
"For the audiophiles .. this PSU just doesn't make any noticeable noise."... 
Tagan has one that has a "specialized" USB powerline, for better power to the motherboards usb ports. Neat stuff!


So the usb that goes out of the motherboard could be hampered by the fact that power from there
could be limited, so it restricts how many usb devices you can attatch. But this one more or less help out in this regard!!!

Imp.

This is certainly helpful for devices that need a lot of USB power, but I would not recommend them for powering audio gear.  These are all switching supplies and the regulation specs on these ports is questionable.  Very dependent on the USB cable too.  They may be better than the typical USB port on a computer, but I doubt if they will compete with a linear or battery supply.

Steve N.

[Imperial]

The best Computer psu I've ever heard of, and I bought it by the way, is the Seasonic MD12 850.
They achieve from 5 to 16 millivolt noise on the 12v 5v and 3,3v lines. That is quite insane for a computer psu.
Paul Hynes SR1 achieves 2 nanovolts of noise on his 12v dc supply, or a ten million'th of the Seasonic . That ... is not a lot of noise!!! 
So yes, I agree, a dedicated psu is better. It's quite the gap!
Imp.

[audioengr]

The best Computer psu I've ever heard of, and I bought it by the way, is the Seasonic MD12 850.
They achieve from 5 to 16 millivolt noise on the 12v 5v and 3,3v lines. That is quite insane for a computer psu.
Paul Hynes SR1 achieves 2 nanovolts of noise on his 12v dc supply, or a ten million'th of the Seasonic . That ... is not a lot of noise!!! 
So yes, I agree, a dedicated psu is better. It's quite the gap!
Imp.

The noise is certainly important, but just as important is the speed and accuracy of regulation.

Steve N.

[kaka]

Running the Polestar in was interesting - in the first 100-120 hours I noted that it had brought out musical textures, details and nuances that hadn't been audible before, but the top end was rolled off. It didn't seem to be changing so I sent an email to Lee at Locus who replied that it did need the 150 hours that is noted on the sheet that comes with it.

Well the next 24 hours transformed things - the top end burst into life and I'm very pleased with the result. Its way better than my stock cables.

I have just had something similar happen with a Nucleus
It sounded very good but I thought it might have a little more to give in terms of energy and dynamics. There wasn't a lot of change for 120 hours or so, but then 24 hours later the extra energy was suddenly there. And the final change was significant.  The Nucleus is a considerable step up from the Polestar - more energy, separation and detail. Some of the bass lines you hear now are just tremendous. There is no way I would go back.

The people that theorise that all USB cables must sound the same (no matter where you turn on forums there is always someone running that line) are so completely wrong.

Since deciding to stick with USB I've added the Nucleus, and the next step is the BPT battery power supply for the offramp that is winging its way from the US.