Removing M3 Grill Covers?

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DaveWin88

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #20 on: 10 Jun 2022, 10:36 pm »
I’m struggling with the physics of all this. It’s just a thin piece of fabric, acoustically transparent at that. The wavelengths of the frequencies from those woofers are so long that I would love someone to explain how removing the grills can improve detail.


You know Tangram. I unplugged the M100 (tweeter on the M6) and played a track with just the woofers and was pretty shocked at how little? mid range information in my mind was coming out of the two speakers. So with that being said, it wasn't what I was expecting. I figured the grill removal might aid in the mids but maybe not so much?

Alex-San

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #21 on: 10 Jun 2022, 11:31 pm »
I’m struggling with the physics of all this. It’s just a thin piece of fabric, acoustically transparent at that. The wavelengths of the frequencies from those woofers are so long that I would love someone to explain how removing the grills can improve detail.

As we all know, physics and audiophilia are two very distinct disciplines.

dket

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #22 on: 11 Jun 2022, 01:39 am »
Tangram,
I too thought this could maybe be a placebo effect after removing the grills.  But a day after with more listening I'm hearing a cleaner and more enjoyable sound.
Here is a helpful test.  Hold up a grill and put your hand behind it and blow through it.  Then, blow straight on your hand at the same distance from your mouth without the grill.  You will notice two things. First, the difference in the amount or air reaching your hand and second, the sound of the air blowing on your hand.  The speaker grill is definitely a veil.

Mr. Big

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #23 on: 11 Jun 2022, 02:12 pm »
Tangram,
I too thought this could maybe be a placebo effect after removing the grills.  But a day after with more listening I'm hearing a cleaner and more enjoyable sound.
Here is a helpful test.  Hold up a grill and put your hand behind it and blow through it.  Then, blow straight on your hand at the same distance from your mouth without the grill.  You will notice two things. First, the difference in the amount or air reaching your hand and second, the sound of the air blowing on your hand.  The speaker grill is definitely a veil.

The big question is this, if the speaker was designed and voiced with the grills on, then taking them off will throw the balance off. But then you might like it. I've owned speakers without the grills on your run from the room. I look at the designer knowing what they are doing.

Tyson

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #24 on: 11 Jun 2022, 05:37 pm »
The big question is this, if the speaker was designed and voiced with the grills on, then taking them off will throw the balance off. But then you might like it. I've owned speakers without the grills on your run from the room. I look at the designer knowing what they are doing.

Most speaker designers I've talked to design their speakers with the grills off.  And offer the grills only as a compromise option for people that cannot have the bare drivers showing (the dreaded WAF).

Tangram

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #25 on: 12 Jun 2022, 01:29 am »
I’d be interested to know if Clayton voices his speakers with the grills on or off. I would think, given that the grills don’t come off easily (a la Harbeth), it’s the former.

DaveWin88

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #26 on: 14 Jul 2022, 12:21 am »
OK now that I've had the grills off for 4+ weeks and just put them back on a couple days ago, you can definitely hear a difference. The presentation seems a bit muffled with them on. So I took off one side (someone posted In a different thread? the key to taking off the grills in to pinch the fabric near the end and pull them off that way) I'm telling you THAT is the ticket to getting these buggers off TY. So yeah with the grills off on one side, I noticed that the instruments had a little bit more air than on the grilled side. So I removed the other side and, absolutely there is a noticeable improvement. You know it's pretty damn cool when you can get just a BIT more out of your system :) Just bought the Herbie Gliders and heard no improvement, but I'll just do it in reverse and see if I hear any difference when I remove them in a month or so.     

Audiosaurusrex

Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #27 on: 14 Jul 2022, 01:02 am »
OK now that I've had the grills off for 4+ weeks and just put them back on a couple days ago, you can definitely hear a difference. The presentation seems a bit muffled with them on. So I took off one side (someone posted In a different thread? the key to taking off the grills in to pinch the fabric near the end and pull them off that way) I'm telling you THAT is the ticket to getting these buggers off TY. So yeah with the grills off on one side, I noticed that the instruments had a little bit more air than on the grilled side. So I removed the other side and, absolutely there is a noticeable improvement. You know it's pretty damn cool when you can get just a BIT more out of your system :) Just bought the Herbie Gliders and heard no improvement, but I'll just do it in reverse and see if I hear any difference when I remove them in a month or so.     
Thats Great Dave, I have one of the early editions 2019 without the outboard crossover. I'll have to try this.

DaveWin88

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #28 on: 14 Jul 2022, 01:19 am »
Thats Great Dave, I have one of the early editions 2019 without the outboard crossover. I'll have to try this.
Yeah let us know for sure.  Btw I have the M6's

catluck

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #29 on: 14 Jul 2022, 02:32 pm »
After reading DaveWin88's posts I tried again to remove the grills on the M3's.  Can't do it. Afraid of tearing the cloth. The travails of the passionate (certifiable?) audio hound. Any tips besides meds?

El Tio

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #30 on: 14 Jul 2022, 04:05 pm »
When I removed the grills on my M3's I was doing it for the visual and was not expecting any sonic difference. I figured given the size and frequency duties of those 15" drivers there wouldn't be a noticeable effect. When I sat down and had my first listen I immediately noticed a positive difference. I don't know if it is the absence of the fabric or the reduction in diffraction by the plastic ring but knowing how much of an improvement it made I can not bring myself to put them back on.

Mr. Big

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #31 on: 14 Jul 2022, 04:16 pm »
Anything you do with a good system you will hear a change or difference now if you like it that is another story. I don't like spikes on my Sapphires M3s, I have a carpeted floor with 8lb pads underneath the carpet. I have more authority, details, and better dynamics and bass, with the spikes sounding much less real. So If I never tried the speaker without the spikes I would not have known what I was missing, the feet stay on the front but no spikes, my past speakers were the same, except for my Dynaudio Confidence 5 speakers where they sounded much better with the spikes. So you have to try things out and see how they work out for you. In fact, a great setup person who does audio shows is also against spiking speakers and feels that much more natural, realistic sound with more body to the music without them. So many use spikes and like them, some use them because they feel they must, manufacturers offer them because it is expected to have them for the past 20 years or more. I don't like spikes on my gear either, yes they clean things up I guess but to my ear no different than pushing upper highs and lower highs more forward much like turning up the trebble control on a preamp or receiver in the old day's the same effect.

I always have kept the grills on unless they designer said to take them off.

DaveWin88

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #32 on: 15 Jul 2022, 12:28 am »
After reading DaveWin88's posts I tried again to remove the grills on the M3's.  Can't do it. Afraid of tearing the cloth. The travails of the passionate (certifiable?) audio hound. Any tips besides meds?
If you use your finger tips, it is painful. You have to just go for it. It may take several attempts to get one off. Pulling them buy the fabric at the closest to the edge as possible should be fine? 

catluck

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #33 on: 15 Jul 2022, 02:04 pm »
DaveWin88 - thanks for your tips. Greatly appreciated. Still, I can't budge these grills. And I mean they don't budge.  It's almost as though Clayton doesn't want them removed.  I think I might do something crazy like contact Spatial and discuss this earth-shaking matter.  I'll let all know what I learn.

Factorz

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #34 on: 15 Jul 2022, 03:03 pm »
I just picked up a pair of M6's and mentioned this discussion to Clayton when I sent him an email thanking him for a good purchase experience. Report back if he comments.

Daryl Zero

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #35 on: 15 Jul 2022, 07:31 pm »
I just picked up a pair of M6's and mentioned this discussion to Clayton when I sent him an email thanking him for a good purchase experience. Report back if he comments.

My woofer grills on both speakers won't budge so I'm in the same slow boat to grillvania.

jnschneyer

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #36 on: 16 Jul 2022, 12:37 am »
I don’t know if the grills on the X5s are attached or installed differently than on the M3s, but I was able to remove the grills quite easily. They protruded slightly from the recessed area in which the drivers were set. Using my fingertips, I pressed down on the protruding edge of the grill, pulled slightly, and the grills came right out. It sounds as if the grills on the M3s may be inset to the point of being completely flush with the baffle?

DaveWin88

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #37 on: 16 Jul 2022, 12:55 am »

You can see on the bottom driver that they are actually further in than flush.

DaveWin88

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #38 on: 16 Jul 2022, 01:09 am »


The buggers are in there :)



jnschneyer

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Re: Removing M3 Grill Covers?
« Reply #39 on: 16 Jul 2022, 03:07 am »

The buggers are in there :)

So they are. I wonder if I just got lucky or if it’s a difference in the design between the M3 and X5.