[sharpsuxx]

If you are really serious about it, I think going to a few of the upcoming audio shows would be a good investment of your budget.  You have Axpona coming up in Chicago in March and I am sure there is a regional show near you coming up.  Spend part of your budget to go to one of these shows and hear what a bunch of high end systems should sound like, bring some of your favorite tracks and have the distributor, or in some cases even the designer of the speakers answer your questions directly.  You will come out of one of these shows with a much better frame of reference and surely get ALOT more for your money.  You could even take advantage of some of the show specials to get some great deals.  We can only offer you so much here on the forum if you don't have a great frame of reference for which high end speakers you have heard and like, after the show based on what you like, you may find that your dream system is cheaper than you expected or even that for a few extra bones you can buy what is to your ears the best stuff in the world.  Not to say an in home demo isn't a great idea, but this restricts you to basically mass manufactured stuff that have a dealer network near you.  I wouldn't want to pigeon hole myself like that with that much money on the line.  Plus you will get to meet a bunch of us in person, if that is really even a benefit.  Good luck either way, hope to see you at one of the shows.

[audiogoober]

Pass Labs XA-30.5 amp - $3250 used or demo
Gill Audio Alana tube preamp - $ 3000 used
DAEDALUS ATHENA Speakers - $10000 new
Squeezebox Touch media server/transport - $350 used
Meither MA-1 DAC - $5000 new
Wywires or Dynamic Design Cables - +/- $2500

Warning: Instant goose bumps and permagrin will occur.

[Blueshirt1]

I kinda had a similar question a while back and this is what I came up with from research, talking with people, etc. Still waiting for some of the components so cant give an overall verdict yet.

Merlin VSM Masters
Ars Sonum Fila (tube integrated so not your flavor)
Byston BDP2
Calyx Femto DAC
Cardas Clear cables

[Tyson]

Best advice is to start with the speakers and then build the rest of the system around the speakers.  There's lots of good speakers around, I'd recommend starting with a few that I've found to be excellent:

Daedalus Athena's
Serenity Super 7's
Geddes Abbeys
Audiokinesis Dream Makers

The vast majority of audiophile speakers out there are quite overpriced, IMO.  The 4 above are not.  They are expensive, but worth every penny.

[roscoeiii]

I second Tyson's advice.

Best advice is to start with the speakers and then build the rest of the system around the speakers. 

To his speaker list, I would add Von Schweikerts, and the higher end Zus (which would be very different presentations, I would imagine based on my experience with lower priced models from these manufacturers. I will find out at Axpona shortly  ).

[Quiet Earth]

Say, $15K for speakers, the balance for DAC, Preamp, and amp(s).

Are you sure that 60% of your entire budget should go toward just the speakers? Why should the combination of DAC, Preamp, Amp(s), and all cables/accessories only get 40%?

If you are really serious about it, I think going to a few of the upcoming audio shows would be a good investment of your budget.

I think this is the best advice so far. It can be an eye opener if you are willing to be honest with yourself.

[jarcher]

I think the consensus about going to shows, dealers, etc & listen, listen, listen is obviously the best advice.  But if I were putting together a new $25K system I would add Ayre, Simaudio and Bel Canto as brands to listen to for SS electronics.  The Ayre & Simaudio SS amps are some of the better ones I've heard (still haven't decided about BC class D amps) and it seems in general that most of what these three manufacturers make is well regarded & reviewed across product lines. 

Speakers is harder.  I like Joseph Audio for conventional speakers, though I still feel they are overpriced.  Maybe better as a used purchase if possible?  And yet still don't know if I'd give up my maggie 1.7's for them at this point, even if they do sell for a fraction of the cost of most of JA's speakers.

[roscoeiii]

Are you sure that 60% of your entire budget should go toward just the speakers? Why should the combination of DAC, Preamp, Amp(s), and all cables/accessories only get 40%?

I think 60% on speakers with a budget like this is totally reasonable.

[sharpsuxx]

I agree 60% is completely reasonable for speakers.  Not to say that electronics don't have a significant impact on sound quality, but speakers and room are far more than 60% of the equation so they warrant at least that percentage of the investment.

As far as recomendations for speakers there are so many good ones.  I personally own the Vapor Audio Cirrus in my dream system, but my system probably has half of what yours will have into it.  If I had 25k the Vapor Audio Joule would be my choice although there is some patience required since they are made to order, Maggie 3.7s if I had a huge room have a phenomenal soundstage, Used Wilson audio sasha's are around 10k if you like analytical sound plus resale on them is great if you catch upgradeitis, I think you said you didn't like the Revel but the Salon 2 is a pretty stout speaker in that price range used, I haven't heard there offering in that price range but all of Sonus Fabers new models in this year lineup are very good to my taste.

As for amps, I can't really help much there I am a tube guy.  the new peachtree dac sounded pretty awesome at RMAF, the new BMC DAC is a bigtime contender with their pre, the Empyrical Audio Overdrive would be my DAC of choice but it might not fit in that budget.

Like I said before, buy a plane ticket or gas up the car and have a nice weekend in Chicago, you'll learn a whole lot.

[ncblue]

I'm sure a dealer can sort a great system. Go and listen!
If it were me, I would get:
Zu Audio Druid mk5/ submission subwoofer $10K
Decware Zen Torii $3600
Modwright LS-100 with phono stage $4500
Rega RP8/Apheta $4000
Oppo BDP-105 $1200 (Modwright tube mod)

Dealer should give enough discount to allow for cables.
I'm working toward this system (but I will use a Koetsu cartridge which I already own)

[CrazyBlue]

Thanks everyone for the input.  I can't make Axpona this year, but I'll be seeking out regional shows this summer, as well as visiting nearby cities to hit the shops.  Like I said, lots of listening over the next year.  I'm not in a hurry, and have lots of other things to do in the meantime.  I appreciate the suggestions, if only because you all have brought some brands to my attention that I wasn't aware of.  Be checking out a lot of manufacturer websites too.  I can safely say that I'll always lean toward smaller companies who take great pride in their products, and show that through the products themselves and excellent customer support/service.  This will influence my decisions in no small way.

As far as speakers go, well I'm glad to hear that the longevity issue with Magnepans is a thing of the past.  I may have the speaker choice right there, because I absolutely loved the lower-end models I heard, and can't wait to hear the 3.7 (there's a local dealer about 100 miles away.)  I'll give the 20.7 a listen too, but I can't imagine having a room big enough to accommodate them.  Or maybe where there's a will there's a way.

 

[SteveFord]

There's an awful lot of houses for sale out there.  You could always narrow your search requirements around the speakers - kind of like some people do with garage size or number of bedrooms.
I just read what I wrote and it sounds crazy but why not.
The main challenge in putting 20.7s in rooms that aren't gigantic is taming the bass output as it can be overpowering. 

[jarcher]

Or you could get yourself some 1.7's, save $2500, which would go a long way to one or more subwoofers to get the very lowest frequencies.  If you're going to demo 3.7's, I'd take a listen to the 1.7's as well.  I did and didn't find myself longing for the 3.7's.  I use the 1.7's in a room that's about 15 feet wide by 25 feet long.  Wouldn't want to go more narrow than 15 feet though.

[sunnydaze]

If I had your budget, I would start with used Vandersteen 5A's and go from there. Go out of your way to demo a pair.

Have fun,

Jerry

 Great advice! 

Spectacular speaker, been on my "must have" list for years.  With self powered woofs and various adjustments, offers great flexibility.  Been seeing them recently used in the $5.5 to $7k range.  Tremendous value.

Choose the speaker you love, build around that with components that give insane hand-in-glove gear meshing synergy.

Buy used.  That way if you make a mistake, you don't feel compelled to stay married to dissatisfaction, rather than take a big loss.  Buy new at retail levels, even with dealer discounts, you will be taking a big resale loss....guaranteed.   Historically, unloading big ticket gear on used markets means that steep discounts are typically required.

Also, there's the value quotient.  $25k new buys you, well, a $25k retail rig.  Used, with some smart shopping, it gets you a rig in the $50k and higher retail range.  Price isn't everything, but with my 25k I'd much rather be shopping at the 50k retail point than the 25k point.   

7k on the 5A's,  10 to 13k on the rest (done right in the used market), can give a killer system.  And you'd have 5k in your pocket, and much better SQ than 25k retail.

That's what I would do, in a general sense.  Too many variables, dependencies, and subjective tastes to rec specific other gears.  But I feel comfortable recommending the 5A's as a starting point.   Set up right, I can't imagine anyone not loving them, and being content for many years.

[cloudbaseracer]

I am not trying to be smart but I am wondering why you chose $25k?  Did someone tell you that you need to spend that to get good sound?  The reason I ask is that I would suggest the Gedlee Abbeys that have been mentioned before - along with 3 or four of Earl's bandpass subs.  You will not find these at a show but they will compete well above their price point.  You can mate these with a pair of Ncore NC400 amps and you would have a HUGE budget left over for your front end. I would say the above would be about $10k and you will have a system that you would be hard pressed to touch for twice the amount.

Earl's speakers are not about marketing hype or audio jewelry but about solid engineering that cannot really be argued with.  Controlled Directivity with Multi-Sub is the way to go.

Short of that - room treatment and design will outshine the most expensive piece of electronics you will buy. Don't focus on the bling focus on the science!!

Cheers,
James
 

[jtwrace]

Don't focus on the bling focus on the science!!

Cheers,
James

[AB]

The Op wrote "(The room) Will be well-treated with absorbers and diffraction and bass traps."

So the cost of treatments need to be added to the budget.

[konut]

You'll find no shortage of people with opinions on how to spend your money.  Here's my take. Get the Invicta DAC from Resonessence Labs.

http://resonessencelabs.com/invicta/

Monster thread at Headfi.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/559407/review-resonessence-labs-invicta-new-high-end-dac-amp-playback-system


Computer Audiophile

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/resonessence-labs-invicta-move-over-weiss-dac202u-theres-new-king-town-12412/

That's $4k. Then go out and audition the appropriate sized powered speakers for the room, a couple of balanced interconnects, a comfortable chair, and some room treatments. Done.

[dB Cooper]

Short of that - room treatment and design will outshine the most expensive piece of electronics you will buy. Don't focus on the bling focus on the science!!

Cheers,
James

Best advice you could ever get. The pics sections are full of things like systems with planars right in front of all-glass walls, exposed hardwood floors, speakers that are waaaaay too big for the room they are in, asymmetrical placements that drastically change the low frequency loading (and therefore the frequency response, and therfore the imaging) on a channel-to-channel basis, etc etc... Without putting words into cloudbaseracer's mouth, he seems to be saying that $15K worth of equipment and $3K worth of room treatments will quite likely sound better than $25K spent on shiny boxes alone. I would agree.

[a.wayne]

Sounds like marketing to me ...

I am not trying to be smart but I am wondering why you chose $25k?  Did someone tell you that you need to spend that to get good sound?  The reason I ask is that I would suggest the Gedlee Abbeys that have been mentioned before - along with 3 or four of Earl's bandpass subs.  You will not find these at a show but they will compete well above their price point.  You can mate these with a pair of Ncore NC400 amps and you would have a HUGE budget left over for your front end. I would say the above would be about $10k and you will have a system that you would be hard pressed to touch for twice the amount.

Earl's speakers are not about marketing hype or audio jewelry but about solid engineering that cannot really be argued with.  Controlled Directivity with Multi-Sub is the way to go.

Short of that - room treatment and design will outshine the most expensive piece of electronics you will buy. Don't focus on the bling focus on the science!!

Cheers,
James