[bprice2]

Hello All,

I am hoping some of y'all have experience with the Omega Super 3 Bipole speaker.  I recently obtained a pair.   They are currently being powered by a NAD HT receiver.  While I am enjoying this setup, I also think the Bipoles might sound better, if they were matched differently.  I've always been an integrated type of guy...I enjoy the simplicity.  However, I've been learning about some new things here on AC, like T-Amps, and the new Signature 30, as well as all the various mods.

I'd be interested in hearing anyone's recommendation of an amp for the Super 3 Bipoles. 

Thanks.

[JLM]

The Fostex FE127E drivers used in these speakers IMO sound best with tube amplification, and without the bottom octave to worry about the typical poor damping factor of tube amps isn't much of a concern.  Realize that with all the wiring options possible you'll need to find a tube amp that is synergistic with 4 - 16 ohm loads (most tube amps thrive on higher impedance and most amps in general don't do well on low impedance).

As the drivers are fairly efficient, have relatively limited output, and don't do deep bass a big amp (bigger than say 20 wpc) isn't necessary.  Just how big is dependent on your listening practices and room size.  Remember that Louis' premise is to build speakers for SETs.

[bprice2]

The Fostex FE127E drivers used in these speakers IMO sound best with tube amplification...

JLM:
Thanks for the reply.  My intention is to never own a tube amp...maybe I should have mentioned this.  I am interested in hearing about what solid state amps are out there that might be a good match for the Super 3 Bipoles.  I'm pretty new to this hobby and have been learning quite a bit on the AC pages.  Based on my reading, it seems that about two years ago the T-amp started making waves.  Since then, several manufactures have produced what many in the "circle" believe to be a solid state amp that produces a tube-like effect, and many of those folks have written that a T-amp can sound even better than tubes.  Based on these types of statements, I've come to the conclusion that tubes are dead. 

Recently, there have been many posts on AC describing Vinnie Rossi's new Signature 30 amp.  Because of the many over-the-top posts and the 6moons review, it should be needless to say that my interest is peaked.  Also, I have read a post regarding an amp that Wayne Waanen built for a guy specifically designed to power the Super 3 Bipoles.  So, I guess what I'm looking for is advice on these types of amps and others I might not be aware of...tubes are out for me.

This might be helpfull too.  Here is where I want to go with my system.

Front end:
Bolder modded SB3 and power source (got it), Bolder modded Oppo DVD (want it), FM Hi Def/AM receiver (want it)

Amplification:
???

Speakers:
Omega Super 3 Bipoles (got em), Martin Logan Dynamo Subwoofer (got it)

BTW, the S3B's actually, produce some pretty incredible bass in the current setup.  A light touch on the sub with a 60Hz crossover is giving me a nice full range.  My guess is that the bipolar action helps the little Fostex drivers to do more than they do in a monopole situation.

Thanks Again,

Brett Price

[Louis O]

Hi bprice2,

The Super 3 Bipoles are designed to be configured for 4 or 16 ohms.  OTL tube amps work well in 16-ohm andSET works well in 4-ohm.  If you are not using tube,
Vinnies (Red Wine) gear works amazing with the bipole.  Both the ClariT and the Signatrue 30 have fantastic synergy with them and i use the 4 ohm setting.   The sig 30 sounds better than a lot of pricey SET amps out there that I have heard and the bass is very controlled and accurate.  Listening to the sig 30 tells me that you dont need to use tubes to get that rich SET sound. 
I was not aware that Wayne designed an amp for the Super 3 bipoles?

Hi JLM,

all of my new models sucha s the Hemps, XRS, Revolutions were voiced wtih Red Wine gear and the Lotus amps.  They also work great with SET for those who love tubes.

Thanks,

Louis

[bprice2]

Here's the link to the post on the "Bolder Tripath" that was built for the person with Super3 Bipoles.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=15411.0

[JLM]

Chip amps are another option that have some of the tube flavor.  Scott Nixon sells a 20 wpc integrated (two sources) for under $600.  That could work for you as the SB does your CDs and internet radio. 

Chip amps are very popular with the DIY crowd too.

[Ewalaa]

I think you should at least listen to a tube amp in your system before writing them off completely. SS, Tripaths and Chips might sound LIKE tubes, but they still aren't tubes. Why do you have such a strong aversion to tubes? You can certainly find reliable, maintenance free tube amps.

Ed

[bprice2]

I think you should at least listen to a tube amp in your system before writing them off completely. SS, Tripaths and Chips might sound LIKE tubes, but they still aren't tubes. Why do you have such a strong aversion to tubes? You can certainly find reliable, maintenance free tube amps.

Ed

Ed,

Don't mean to diss the tubes.  Don't mean to appear close minded.  Don't mean to appear opinionated.  And, don't mean to sound like a complete dumbass either, but I'm new to this hobby, and sometimes I do.  Please forgive me.

The statement you read is merely a reflection of where my set of audio beliefs reside at the moment...I'm still learning.  Also, my listening room is my living room.  I share it with my very discriminating wife.  I must purchase in terms of providing her with the least amount of objections I can.

My guess is I will be singing many different tunes as I continue to pursue audio nirvana.  Sounds like a lot of fun.  So far it has been!   


Brett

[Ewalaa]

Ahh, now I'm with you. That makes perfect sense. I never considered appearance or decor. I think the Omega/Red Wine amps are fanatastic looking...probably fantastic sounding as well, I've just never heard one.

I had to reply to the "tubes are dead" comment.

Actually, an amp full of glowing tubes looks pretty darn good as well.

Ed

[Louis O]

Hi Brett,

Thanks for the posts and I hope you have the wiring all figured out and if you want to go over, please call me anytime.

In so much as you are looking SS. I would go with the RWA. I use both amps extensively with the speakers. I also have a lot tube amps and lo-ve t+hem too. Both do things that excel in their own ways.

I have had op amp amps and big class a SS too in the shop. I do like the RWA over these.

Thanks again,
Louis

[maxwalrath]

Also, my listening room is my living room.  I share it with my very discriminating wife.  I must purchase in terms of providing her with the least amount of objections I can.

Different strokes for different folks....every time I get tube gear in the house my girlfriend likes the looks much more, she's always a little peeved when I sell them.  I was going to say check out a Jolida 502 if the wife is OK with the tube looks.

One question....do you need a pre? Will you be listening to TV/watching movies through your speakers?

[bprice2]

I did it.  I purchased an RWA Signature 30 to go with the Bipoles.  Glad that's over with.  What next? 

[Louis O]

Hi bprice2,

Great move and I know you will love the amp. I have my version in the wood box and it's amazing. It sounds like a great PP EL-84 that's better on both ends and amazingly quiet.

Use the speakers in 4 ohm mode. This is the best loading.

Talk to you soon,
Louis

[bprice2]

Hi Louis,

First I want to say, man, I love your speakers!  Honestly, I can't say enough.  They are both beautiful to look at and listen to. 

As you may know, I currently have them matched to an amp that they weren't really designed to be matched to.  However, this setup is bringing me much enjoyment.  I've had long enough to listen to them to make a few observations.  First, using the NAD HT receiver in bipolar mode was creating a harshness, or brightness on some tracks that was a little difficult to sit through.  After contemplating why this might be, I pulled the jumpers on the Bipoles and converted them to front firing only, which I believe also converts them to 8 ohms.  This made a huge difference.  All that brightness went away.  Do you think this was in fact a cause of impedences being better matched between the amp and speakers, or do you think maybe my listening room is just too reflective and bright with the speakers in their bipole configuration?

Another observation I've made is that break-in on these speakers is huge.  Everytime I listen they sound even better.  This is by far the best sound system I have ever owned.  I have considered listening to music to be one of the most enjoyable things in my life since I was very young.  I am currently enjoying a renaissance in this regard and owe it to having discovered the work of folks like Louis (Super 3 Bipoles), Noel (Skylan Stands), Wayne (modded SB3 and PS), and now Vinnie (Signature 30).  When the Sig 30 arrives I feel certain that I will have the best sound system I have ever heard. And, much better than anything I would have been able to afford, if I had not learned about all these talented manufacturers on Audio Circle.

Speaking of the Signature 30...I read this on another thread,

"Many thanks and it's a lot of fun working with Vinnie and being involved with such a wonderfull amp. It sells for $1799 complete with the platforms and upgrades. All of the finishes are standard and no extra charge."

Am I understanding this correctly?  $1799 for both Vinnie's work and your upgrades?  Does this include the remote control option? I'm already paying close to $1799.  If this is correct, I may be interested in exploring your Sig30 upgrade.  I currently have an order in with Vinnie.

One more thing...I am currently using a Martin Logan Dynamo subwoofer.  It was recommended to me by the guys at my local hi-fi shop.  They were all abuzz about it.  Said it really had a good performance to cost ratio.  It ran me about $600.  I bring this up because, damn! it sure sounds good with your speakers.  I don't really have any kind of reference in this regard, but I am able to get astonishing bass that seems so detailed and seamless with the Bipoles.  If you or anyone else gets a chance to listen to this sub, I would certainly love to hear you opinions and comparisons with other subs.

Anyway, thanks for hearing me out, and sorry about being wordy. 

Thanks again,

Brett

[bprice2]

Louis,

I just remembered another question I wanted to ask.  I have been reading with interest about the added range of the hemp drivers vs. the fostex.  I'm assuming the 4.5" hemps are "plug and play" with the Super 3 Bipoles.  If my assumption is correct, would that be something else I might be able to covet down the road?

Thanks,

Brett

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Brett,

I'm on the computer a lot more than Louis, so I thought I'd answer your questions about the Omega Sig 30.

The Omega Sig 30 is nearly identical to the RWA Signature 30 except for the following:

-- It is in a beautiful hand made wooden enclosure and platform made by Louis (you can call him about finishes).  He first builds the enclosure, and then I do all the electronics work.

-- He uses Vampire Binding posts and a different version of the Vampire RCA jacks (longer threads because the wood is thicker than the metal enclosure).

The cost without the remote volume control is $1799.00.  The cost with the remote volume control is $2099.00.


Regarding your Bipoles, if you are only using the front driver your amp will see an 8-ohm load.  It might not like a 4-ohm load (using both speakers in parallel) and this might be why it doesn't sound right (it might be outputting more distortion).  You can try wiring the two drivers in series to make a 16-ohm load.  As you mentioned, it could be the interaction with your room as well.  If you have the chance to play around with the positioning of the Bipoles in your room (distances from the walls as well as toe in), you will hopefully be able to really fine-tune it.

Break in on the drivers used in the Super 3, Super 3 XRS, and Super 3 Bipoles makes a HUGE difference.  I own the Super 3s and Super 3 XRS and if you are not a believer in speaker burn-in, these speakers might make you a believer after you put them through their paces....big change, especially in the bottom.

The 4.5" hemps will be plug-in-play.  I can't wait to get mine! 

Best regards,

Vinnie



 

[bprice2]

Thanks Vinnie,

Man, you're everywhere.  I appreciate the reply.  I will stick with the order I currently have on the Sig30.  Maybe in a few months I will look into the hemp drivers for the Bipoles. It sounds so intriguing...twice the hemp means twice the pleasure...right?  Maybe Louis could make it an option and call it the Two Hitter, or the Double Chronic, or the Double Roll Bipole, or....  This is just too much fun.  Please hurry and finish my Sig30.  I really, really want it now.

Once again, thanks for all of your help.

Sincerely,

Brett

[Louis O]

Hi Brett,

Vinnie nailed and many thanks for your post.
The only other thing I can add is the new hemp 4.5s are coming along and I should have the new prototype in about 3 to 4 weeks. They are a direct plug and play replacement so it's very easy to install.

Thanks again,
Louis