Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps

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Mr. Big

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #560 on: 27 Dec 2022, 05:27 pm »
Geez, Big, that was a mouthful...

Bottom line -- Class D is Class D. There's nothing revolutionary about 'em (I thought so until I replaced my Purifi amp with a tube amp :o). The Class D technologies all impart the same sonic characteristics. Plus, you need to dump a ton more money into a Class D design to get them to sound high-end. The same is true for any other amp type.   

40 years worth....smile!

2bigears

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #561 on: 27 Dec 2022, 07:40 pm »
 :D well I gave a listen to this little amp the other night. Dig and vinyl spinning variable and 33 1/3 rpm. I was going to A-B with my big monster Pass 250 but that thing is broken and needs a tune.. not fair but with my power hungry speakers I can only imagine the outcome.  For the little cash outlay this little guy is pretty dam good.  For critical evidence listening it's ok to be sure. For a small office system or if your speakers are efficient this little fella holds its weight class very well. I'll get my Pass across the water to the mainland and tuned up. Then I can A-B these on a fair playground. I still want to buy a decent tube amp for the Spatial speakers I have in the waiting room. That will be interesting. Not sure what to buy for a tube amp ? Can't wait two years for a build,, good lord who does that ? Those guys are seriously hard core patient.  :D

Tyson

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #562 on: 27 Dec 2022, 08:01 pm »
:D well I gave a listen to this little amp the other night. Dig and vinyl spinning variable and 33 1/3 rpm. I was going to A-B with my big monster Pass 250 but that thing is broken and needs a tune.. not fair but with my power hungry speakers I can only imagine the outcome.  For the little cash outlay this little guy is pretty dam good.  For critical evidence listening it's ok to be sure. For a small office system or if your speakers are efficient this little fella holds its weight class very well. I'll get my Pass across the water to the mainland and tuned up. Then I can A-B these on a fair playground. I still want to buy a decent tube amp for the Spatial speakers I have in the waiting room. That will be interesting. Not sure what to buy for a tube amp ? Can't wait two years for a build,, good lord who does that ? Those guys are seriously hard core patient.  :D

If it were me, I'd buy a used Cary tube amp.  The SLI 80 or the newer CAD-120S would both be a good match, IMO.

catluck

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #563 on: 27 Dec 2022, 08:58 pm »
Interesting to note that those of us who find GanFets superior in sound quality to tubes or SS, must be falling for marketing schtick or the newest thing.  I guess over 35 years of owning tube products, and high quality SS, doesn't immunize me from marketing.  I guess I just can't hear the difference and I must want this inexpensive GanFet product because, well, I only have 4 pair of high quality tube monoblocks in the house. Oh well, grateful to be educated...

Only buy from long lived companies? I guess I'll try to get rid of my M3's.  How about LTA or Don Sachs or....  Probably should never have purchased my George Wright 2A3 monos, some of the finest sounding tube amps I've owned.  Resale value? That's comical in the high end. For those us who've been buying/selling used for years, we know that, except for truly classic gear, the depreciation of high end kit, just walking out the door of the stereo shop (what's that?) is obscene. Yes, some pieces hold their value better than most, but it's a handful of pieces that retain anything greater than 60% or so of their MSRP post-sale.

Likewise, I guess nothing revolutionary about a 5 lb amp that, to my ears, and apparently others as well, equals or surpasses in sound quality any amp I've owned and with an over 80% efficiency, etc., etc.  The next time you pay shipping costs for repair of your big SS amp, you might rethink that sentiment. 

You get what you pay for?  Whatever that means, I find it just plain silly.  I've written previously about a high end marque that used, in a $4,000 transport, an $18 ASUS drive (which incidentally broke every year for the almost three years I owned the transport). Great fun shipping the unit back/forth (until I just bought the drives myself off Amazon and replaced them myself).  I remember when my Levinson 590 CD player drawer broke, twice over 3 years, and gosh Levinson only charged several hundred dollars to replace it on top of the shipping costs to and fro each time.  Glad that player only cost several thousand dollars. I won't mention the many crap x-over parts and drivers in various expensive speaker lines I've owned. Likewise, the mediocre parts in amps costing upwards of $5K, etc., etc.  The only thing high price reliably demonstrates is high price.  It should be the case that high price connotes better quality parts, construction, and the like but too often it's not. And, yet, in the same breath I hear complaining about AR!  That "disconnect" should demonstrate the fallibility of such generalizations. If I wanted to name examples of high priced kit that uses embarrassingly cheap parts I could easily do so but I think it's in bad taste.

In all, the generalizations about high price connoting quality or reliability, or longevity of the enterprise equals security in ownership, or whatever, seem overblown. I've never enjoyed a system like I currently do using the MiniGan monos and M3's with, oh no, another small short-lived company Schiit's Freya+.  Hell, I'm really in trouble here because my DAC is an Okto Research, another short-lived foreign enterprise producing a revolutionary product which John Atkinson concluded was one of the best measuring DAC's he's seen and the equal of the $15,000 MBL (but I guess at 1/10 the price of the MBL, it just can't be competitive in quality...) I won't even dare to comment on my Jay's Audio CDT2-MKIII which simply blows away the far more expensive transports I've owned (@ $2,500).  I'm grateful to own the courage and curiosity to try other than the usual high priced fare... It's been the most gratifying part of my audio experience over the last almost 40 years.

Daryl Zero

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #564 on: 27 Dec 2022, 11:03 pm »
Interesting to note that those of us who find GanFets superior in sound quality to tubes or SS, must be falling for marketing schtick or the newest thing.  I guess over 35 years of owning tube products, and high quality SS, doesn't immunize me from marketing.  I guess I just can't hear the difference and I must want this inexpensive GanFet product because, well, I only have 4 pair of high quality tube monoblocks in the house. Oh well, grateful to be educated...

I don't see that anyone is saying that. Tyson also bought the amp and tried it out. Tastes do differ. As they say (in code) YMMV.

I bought the MiniGaN 5 and I continue to listen to it. I love it with my KEFs but unfortunately, there isn't a place for that system for me. I tried it with other speakers and I didn't hear the magic I heard with the KEFs. The X5s already have an extra amp for the woofer so that may be the big difference between my speakers and the Sapphire M3s. The MiniGaN 5 are bringing out more bass than I've heard from the KEF LS50 Metas. Didn't work for the Nola Boxer S3s though. Again, probably more a synergy thing.


catluck

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #565 on: 27 Dec 2022, 11:21 pm »
IF I misread the "marketing" schtik content to mean that somehow marketing can instigate approval borne of short term infatuation or thrall to mystery/new, anything other than a fair hearing, then it's my bad and I graciously apologize. And sincerely so. I read the comment to implicitly suggest that those of us hopping on the GanFet bandwagon may be susceptible to marketing or the newest thing or... anything but a straightforward and honest listen... And as Daryl Z observes, I've only ever been speaking about the M3's although I'm using a pair of MiniGans upstairs (Merlin VSM's) and so far, for about the last 2 months, I have no desire to put the tubes back in. So again, no offense was meant and my apology if I misstated anyone's position.  I don't want to do that. But I do want to:  dispel what I see as myth; support the small and often artisnal maker; and declare value, true value, where I find it, particularly when it may not be widely appreciated. 

Mr. Big

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #566 on: 28 Dec 2022, 12:48 am »
I think some are taking my comments too personally. I said each design has its fans. Buy what you like. But the facts are looked inside many class D amps and you don't see much thus the cost is much lower and it should be. Look inside other class D amps that are really built out with huge power supplies that cost more by far. I had one at $16,000 and for its class, it sounded as it should, but not better than my past gear. But it was good if you liked that sound I did not, so what? if you do that is a great buy it and enjoy it. I can say it sounded nothing like good tube gear same as solid-state gear when they claim that, that is marketing. And any company markets what they sell as better than the rest. Buzzwords are part of marketing and marketing is done to get you to buy, that is just a fact.

Product life span is planned by companies, so they freshen up and say our newest is even better, be it a TT, power amp, or power conditioner. The hit speaker now being pushed on YouTube is the MoFi speaker, think all those reviews are by chance? nope, but that is how it should be and it does not lessen the product, but do you really think they won't promote interest and sales, of course. No different than the interest in GAIN stated at the beginning of this blog many said I will order one so we do influence others by our words and enthusiasm.

I tried the Sapphires M3s with no in-person listen due in part to this site, did they smoke my Quads no, but they can play louder and they sound good but I do miss what the Quads killed at and that was sounding so real and natural but with volume limitations, so like all things in audio a trade-off.   In the end, I might own class D amps as I get older due to less weight and decent sound, but I better have a warmer tube preamp in front of it or buy an amp like the PS Audio 1200 that uses a vacuum tube in the input stage and I heard that and it sounds really good but cost a lot more than the amp raved about here and Orchard so I have a choice to make between the 2 designs if I were buying and the PS Audio in my case would most likely win, but my current Levinson A/B amp stays because it works so well with the Spatial, Quads and even my Dynaudio Confidence speakers, all different in design and sound.
« Last Edit: 29 Dec 2022, 12:28 am by Mr. Big »

2bigears

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #567 on: 28 Dec 2022, 02:27 am »
 :D 16,000.00  ?  Holy smokes. When your older and play a little softer I think tubes are cool. The new ones are built way better. You could buy 16 of these little guys for that.  Wowwww  :D

Mr. Big

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #568 on: 29 Dec 2022, 10:50 pm »

abd1

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #569 on: 29 Dec 2022, 10:58 pm »
I think some are taking my comments too personally. I said each design has its fans. Buy what you like. But the facts are looked inside many class D amps and you don't see much thus the cost is much lower and it should be. Look inside other class D amps that are really built out with huge power supplies that cost more by far. I had one at $16,000 and for its class, it sounded as it should, but not better than my past gear. But it was good if you liked that sound I did not, so what? if you do that is a great buy it and enjoy it. I can say it sounded nothing like good tube gear same as solid-state gear when they claim that, that is marketing. And any company markets what they sell as better than the rest. Buzzwords are part of marketing and marketing is done to get you to buy, that is just a fact.

Product life span is planned by companies, so they freshen up and say our newest is even better, be it a TT, power amp, or power conditioner. The hit speaker now being pushed on YouTube is the MoFi speaker, think all those reviews are by chance? nope, but that is how it should be and it does not lessen the product, but do you really think they won't promote interest and sales, of course. No different than the interest in GAIN stated at the beginning of this blog many said I will order one so we do influence others by our words and enthusiasm.

I tried the Sapphires M3s with no in-person listen due in part to this site, did they smoke my Quads no, but they can play louder and they sound good but I do miss what the Quads killed at and that was sounding so real and natural but with volume limitations, so like all things in audio a trade-off.   In the end, I might own class D amps as I get older due to less weight and decent sound, but I better have a warmer tube preamp in front of it or buy an amp like the PS Audio 1200 that uses a vacuum tube in the input stage and I heard that and it sounds really good but cost a lot more than the amp raved about here and Orchard so I have a choice to make between the 2 designs if I were buying and the PS Audio in my case would most likely win, but my current Levinson A/B amp stays because it works so well with the Spatial, Quads and even my Dynaudio Confidence speakers, all different in design and sound.

I used a tube preamp in front of the LSA GanFET 350 through Cube Nenuphar Mini's and it was excellent.

Mr. Big

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #570 on: 30 Dec 2022, 12:25 am »
I used a tube preamp in front of the LSA GanFET 350 through Cube Nenuphar Mini's and it was excellent.

LSA makes some good stuff and builds well, no need to tear it apart and put better parts in it.

Daryl Zero

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #571 on: 30 Dec 2022, 12:57 am »
I've rehooked up the X5s to the LTA Z40+ integrated and I do think it is much better. Sitting 3 feet away from the speakers, they disappear again.

I do like the Freya + and MiniGaN 5 with the KEFS. I experimented with a speaker I gave to my daughter, Quad S1s and they also sound really nice with the Freya + and the MiniGan 5 so she is keeping those. So I have to figure out where they go.

I have a fourth system for a TV set in my bedroom. It might encourage me to play more music there. I first have to get a DAC with bluetooth to deal with all of the digital connections. I don't want to spend a bunch of money on this. Any suggestions? Mainly will play bluetooth music and digital input from a TV/Satellite. So it can be small.

JackD

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #572 on: 30 Dec 2022, 01:37 am »
Doesn't iFi sell and inexpensive Bluetooth DAC?

genjamon

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #573 on: 30 Dec 2022, 02:44 am »
I got a little Sabaj DAC for my TV system and Bluetooth duties and have been happy with it.

Daryl Zero

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #574 on: 30 Dec 2022, 03:59 pm »
Thanks for the suggestions.

genjamon

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #575 on: 30 Dec 2022, 04:04 pm »
Note mine is the original Sabaj A20d, not the 2022 version.  The 2022 version has a built-in power supply, but the original had a cheap outboard wall wart power supply.  I've been using mine with an HDPlex linear power supply instead, and it is a significant uptick in sound quality vs the cheap wall wart.  Not sure how decent the 2022 version's internal power supply is, but it's an SMPS and might not sound as good as a decent outboard linear power supply such as an HDPlex. 

Mr. Big

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #576 on: 30 Dec 2022, 08:22 pm »
Note mine is the original Sabaj A20d, not the 2022 version.  The 2022 version has a built-in power supply, but the original had a cheap outboard wall wart power supply.  I've been using mine with an HDPlex linear power supply instead, and it is a significant uptick in sound quality vs the cheap wall wart.  Not sure how decent the 2022 version's internal power supply is, but it's an SMPS and might not sound as good as a decent outboard linear power supply such as an HDPlex.

Power supplies make any gear sound great or just OK. The bigger the power supply the better the sound.

musicdre

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #577 on: 1 Jan 2023, 04:34 pm »
here is an article with tech info about ganfet (and purifi) amp technology.  unlike most of us on this thread, the author does not care too much about the fine nuances of sound as long as the overall sound is excellent (what a concept!), but dives into the technologies themselves

https://audioxpress.com/article/fresh-from-the-bench-a-tale-of-two-class-d-amplifiers-orchard-audio-bosc-and-purifi-audio-eigentakt-eval1

RonN5

Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #578 on: 1 Jan 2023, 05:01 pm »
One interesting thing from this article...and Ralph talks about this frequently.... how a rising distortion with frequency can result in harshness...The Orchard Audio amp (now called the Starkcrimson monoblock) was substantially better in this regard than the Purifi. 

For what it is worth, Leo publishes more numbers about his products than almost anyone...here is a link to this amp, scroll midway down.

https://orchardaudio.com/starkrimson_technology_specs/

I spent a week with this amps bigger sibling, the Starkcrimson Ultra...specs near the bottom of the page...absolutely zero harshness or sibilance but a very, very open and spacious top end.


catluck

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Re: Sapphire M3's - Gallium Nitride Amps
« Reply #579 on: 2 Jan 2023, 03:20 pm »
I've suspected that the issues raised by RonN5, i.e., lower distortion at higher frequencies, and,  in fact, lower distortion overall with GanFets relative to Mosfets, may be the reason I now enjoy listening at higher volume and for longer periods than pre-GanFet.  I've previously noted how trumpet, as it ascends register and volume, remains utterly musical. It can scream but never offend (turn strident, edgy or glaring).  Piano also seems to exhibit a greater delicacy. When listening to Wes M., Herb E., Kenny B., Barney K., and other jazz guitarists, string tone has a translucence I just don't recall hearing from any other topology. No tube, SS, or the Bel Canto eRef 600's, (Mosfet class D) and all excellent amps, seemed to exhibit the luminous string tone apparent with GanFets.

I keep second guessing myself and fantasizing that one morning I'll come downstairs, fire up the MiniGans and, after slapping myself on the forehead, wonder, "how could I ever have thought that these toy amps were the equals, let alone superior, to my other far more expensive tube or SS kit?"  Just hasn't happened.
« Last Edit: 4 Jan 2023, 03:23 pm by catluck »