[MaxCast]

So, if you were going to wire a room (basement in my case) for audio and video and you want at least two 15 amp lines (maybe three for amps) what is the best way to wire?

This is a good topic for me as I will be moving into a new house and I get to finish a basement for audio/video.

[Steve Eddy]

Sorry for taking so long to get back to this, but actually had some work to do.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. The ground in a power conditioner is generally straight through. Its only additional series resistance are those stemming from whatever additional connections, IEC inlet, outlets, etc....

Not to mention an additional power cord.

Can't say just how significant that additional resistance would be for a given system, which is why I broadened my answer to a "generally speaking" about keeping the resistances between the safety grounds as low as possible.

Insofar as as all our components are all UL class 2, or we galvanically isolate all our signal grounds via signal transformers, this is true. But as soon as a single component has its signal/power ground tied to a grounded chassis (for extremely important safety reasons) we have that original problem of differing ground potentials.

Not quite sure what you mean here by a "grounded chassis." Do you mean one tied to a literal earth ground?

se

[Steve Eddy]

So, if you were going to wire a room (basement in my case) for audio and video and you want at least two 15 amp lines (maybe three for amps) what is the best way to wire?

I'd say separate hots and shared neutral/safety ground.

se

[ecramer]

I recently ran two dedicated lines to my system i used 10gauge romex 3 wire and used a common ground but i used two separate breakers for the hot legs so i could keep them in phase with each other. I perceived a much in-proved clarity, Dare i  i use the old statement that the veil was lifted, when i did  the wiring. I never heard much difference in changing power cords but  supplying clean power did. 

[Wayner]

First, there are no "local electic codes" other than where smoke detectors and things like that are located. There is one amendment however, and that is that many urban areas require all wiring to be run in conduit like commercial codes require this as an additional fire protection feature. The National Electric Code stipulates all wiring methods for residential dwellings.

The electrican that is running 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground is just saving himself some work. He will have to use a heavier guage wire as the shared neutral and ground will have to handle the current load for both of the circuits. I would simply run 2 seperate, dedicated lines to your required area. At the breaker box, you can connect both circuits to the same side, as long as it doesn't put the box too far out of load balance.

As far as the nonsense about "too long of wire runs" and "ground loops", it is just "nonsense".

W

[mjosef]

.
The electrican that is running 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground is just saving himself some work. He will have to use a heavier guage wire as the shared neutral and ground will have to handle the current load for both of the circuits.
W

 The neutral wire sees only the difference of the current from the two circuits...not the sum.

[djbnh]

I recently ran two dedicated lines to my system i used 10gauge romex 3 wire and used a common ground but i used two separate breakers for the hot legs so i could keep them in phase with each other.

This would be true for me as well re: separate breakers in the option to use the 3 wire set-up.

[Dan Banquer]

From mjosef "The neutral wire sees only the difference of the current from the two circuits...not the sum. "
O.K., If the neutral is carrying the return currents it would be the sum I would think., Am I missing something here?

From what installers, and engineers have told me it is important to have both circuits on the same phase.
    d.b.

[Kim S.]

I have read this entire thread and am a little confused.  Here is what I got out of it so far.  Running separate dedicated lines for your digital and analog sections might cause hum because of different grounding potential. This can be solved by sharing the same ground wire and perhaps the neutral as well.  How is this done?  Does the electrian splice a "y" at the separate digital and analog outlets for the ground and neutral wires and run a solitary "hot" wire to one of the outlets? And how are these wires connected at the box, on the same breaker?   Is one way to minimize the hum potential to just run two separate cables (hot, neutral, and ground) to each outlet and have them connected to the same breaker?  Or is can you connect the grounds to the same breaker and have the hot and neutral of one the lines on a separate breaker?  Pardon my ignorance but I need enlightenment.

[mjosef]

Dan, sorry I guess I didn't read the thread too careful, just saw that a 12/3 line was run and assumed that the hots were installed on opposite legs of the panel. So yes, Installed on the same leg the return current would be the sum. Sometimes I do forget that this is an audiophile site, and the thinking is different from the code book.
I have actually done this a couple times for low to medium demand circuits, where each circuits would draw less than 6-8 A. A single 12/3 pull can save time and money. Not recommended for use in Kitchens where a single circuit can sometimes draw 10-15A.

[ctviggen]

First, there are no "local electic codes" other than where smoke detectors and things like that are located. There is one amendment however, and that is that many urban areas require all wiring to be run in conduit like commercial codes require this as an additional fire protection feature. The National Electric Code stipulates all wiring methods for residential dwellings.

Actually, there are local electrical codes.  Your town may or may not adhere to the NEC.  Even if it adheres to the NEC, there may be differences.  For instance, where I am, Romex is fine.  If urban areas really do require wiring to be run in conduit, that's an additional requirement beyond what the NEC requires. 

[mjosef]

NYC has its own electrical codes, simply know as The New York City electrical codes, which basically adopts the NEC with the City own amendments code. For instance you won't find Romex for sale or use in the City, City codes call for BX or EMT. Most of the amendments has to do with higher fire prevention safty issues.

[Wayner]

If you read my comment, that is what I said. Some area require all wiring in conduit (or no romex). The NEC does rule regardless where you are. Local codes may enhance the code, but none can subtract from it.

[djbnh]

Finally got my dedicated AC lines installed and am hearing noticeable improvements. Cost for line installation was $120. I purchased the electrical duplexes separately [see 2) below)].

Here's some notes:

1) Had my electrician run the 12/3 20-amp wire set-up. One line is connected to a single duplex, which powers my digital source; the other line feeds current to two duplexes for my mono amps, the preamp, and the TT. Separate breakers, installed into the house box, were installed for each line.

2) Receptacles that I purchased separately are cryoed Pass and Seymour 20 amp 8300 MRI "hospital grade" receptacles purchased from Chris VenHaus of VH Audio. Electrician let me coat the 20 amp wire ends, prior to insertion into the receptacles, with Walker SST.

3) I had to dismantle and move all of my audio set-up prior to the dedicated line wiring, except for my speakers. For RCAs, ICs, and PCs that I had to disconnect, I cleaned those items and recoated with Walker SST. My mono amps each now sit on 25 lb granite slabs, on the floor, nearby the respective speaker each amp powers. The TT was reinstalled / re-leveled as before, the preamp and its granite slab moved to the bottom of my audio rack, and the CDP left in its original position. I replaced my speaker cables with a shorter length of the same cable (shorter runs due to moving amps closer to speakers). The preamp and TT each were previously was plugged into a Monster Cable HTS2100 Powerline Conditioner; the HTS2100 is no longer used.

Results - it's turning into a very pleasant experience. I hear increased separation, soundstage depth, precision, detail (attack/decay edges, etc.) - in general, better everything. I'm sure the changes accompanying the dedicated lines have some impact, but as to what they bring I'm not sure, and I'm sure I don't care. This changeover, for me, is an unqualified success. YMMV.

 

[Phil]

I had the same experience when I added another dedicated outlet so that I could separate the cdp from the amp (I don't use a preamp). 

YMMV, but it seems to me this is the best place to start a system, with the power.  I also use balanced power (equitech) for my cdp but that is fine tuning.  The investment is so modest it seems like a natural place to begin.

Phil