Skipping issue with Well Tempered classic

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Whitespider

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Re: Skipping issue with Well Tempered classic
« Reply #20 on: 25 Aug 2021, 05:20 pm »
Hi. I am referring to the holes that the threads pass through. My Well Tempered Arm is an early unit just before the arm went on sale to the public so my findings may be slightly different than the production models. Since my arm was set up by Bill Firebaugh himself I was using it as a general reference. Your Classic was produced much later so the placement of the paddle may be slightly different.

Nevertheless the rotation of this disc will determine the amount of skating that will ultimately be applied. It may need to be twisted more clockwise or counterclockwise depending on the drift. My brain hasn’t jumped started yet.  :o

I would recommend looking over the AudioKarma link I sent earlier to read the discussion on the paddle placement.  It’s also possible that the threads incorrectly connected to the spread bars of the anti skate assembly and your arm has a slight twist in it.

In any event, I’m sure the paddle location will rectify your lack of skating. You certainly don’t want any drifting of the arm toward the runout grooves like you have on your arm right now. It should either be neutral or a slight drift outward.

Good luck. No doubt you will get excess silicone on your table and cup. Alcohol will clean this up. Because I do repair work on small mechanical items such as optical microscopes  I keep a can of Zippo lighter fluid around for quick cleanup of oil and grease and small smearing dabbing with cotton swabs.

SteveFord

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Re: Skipping issue with Well Tempered classic
« Reply #21 on: 25 Aug 2021, 05:57 pm »
Well Tempered Classic

Arm at rest



Arm on lead in groove



Mine slowly drifts outwards if that helps any.

Ears Deluxe

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Re: Skipping issue with Well Tempered classic
« Reply #22 on: 25 Aug 2021, 09:27 pm »
I happy to report that I rotated the paddle and John Haitt's Bring the Family, which was completely unplayable before, is now playing through without a hitch (Crazy Little Thing Called Love has me dancing around the room). Before I saw your reply, Whitesnake, I assumed you meant the screws that hold the thread in place should be parallel with the antiskate arms, so I twisted the paddle until I could get at the screw on the bottom. After several attempts, I got it rotated to the point where those screws were in fact parallel with the antiskate bars, and I did it without spilling any goo, which was really amazing given my usual ham-fistedness. I was feeling quite proud of myself and looking forward to perfect playback, when I noticed that when I twisted the paddle to get at the screw, I managed to break the thread that goes to the antiskate wheel--much more like my usual work. So it was off to the sporting goods store to buy fishing line. Arrrgh!

I got the old string off, measured out some new line, with a little extra length for insurance, got my footstool over by the silicone cup, put on two pairs of reading glasses for extra magnification, and got ready for frustration and mess. My big worry was that in twisting the paddle to get at the underside of the tiny thread hole, I would break the other thread--I can't see how to get the azimuth knob off, so that would be a real pain in the neck. But I turned that azimuth knob to put extra slack in that thread, which helped. I made a loop in one end of the new fishing line, looped it around the screw on the paddle, and tightened that down. Then I set about fishing the line through the tiny hole in the bottom of the paddle, which I couldn't see--I could only just get the bottom edge of the paddle to clear the edge of the cup. And, of course, it was coated in silicone goo.

Much to my astonishment, I actually got it on the fourth try. I pulled the line up, attached it to the screw on the antiskate bars, readjusted azimuth and tracking force (I had the weight all the way at the end of the arm so the cartridge end would stay safely up in the air), and put on John Haitt with my fingers crossed. I can't begin to tell you the ecstasy I felt hearing it play all the way through without a hitch. And to hear it play with so much weight, dynamics, and tactile immediacy coming out of an absolutely black background was just incredible. (I've read about this black background for years, but this is first time I really heard what they meant.)

I'm not going to officially declare the problem solved until I play a lot more records, but right now I'm cautiously optimistic that it is, indeed fixed. Thank you, thank you, thank you, everyone, for your help with this. Now to start thinking about other cartridges. . .

Whitespider

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Re: Skipping issue with Well Tempered classic
« Reply #23 on: 25 Aug 2021, 11:20 pm »
Hi EarsDeluxe!  Nice to hear you have your arm up and running properly.  I'm actually quite confident that all is well with your arm now.  And a great choice for test record! Bring the Family is one of those magical albums that just came together because it was not overthought.  All of the musicians deserve credit for their great playing but John Chelew, the producer, deserves a lot of credit for getting the actual idea of the record together. Play it live.

Two small notes.  Have you tried putting a half-twist in the turntable belt?  In the photos, it doesn't look like it?  The half-twist can help reduce wow and flutter by letting the belt "peel" more smoothly from the pulley.  This was found by accident when Bill Firebaugh was measuring the wow and flutter on the turntable.  A set of results came back better as a result of an accidental twist in the belt.  Doesn't hurt to try.

But I believe this twist of the belt only works with the original style of thin narrow belts that came with the turntable.  Most belts that are sold to fit the turntable are too soft and stetchy with results in the wrong turntable speed.  The belt sold by LpGear is an excellent substitution to the original belt with the same characteristics.  The only negative is the cost which is around $45.  I am not associated with LpGear in anyway.  But as we all know, the proper belt matters in turntables.  And the belt was particular thing that Bill Firebaugh examined when he designed the turntable.  The belt was always expensive even when the turntable was new.

Happy listening.




Ears Deluxe

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Re: Skipping issue with Well Tempered classic
« Reply #24 on: 26 Aug 2021, 03:08 am »
Thanks, Whitespider. I agree about Bring the Family--I've long been a fan of everybody in that band, particularly Jim Keltner, whose playing never lines up with standard drum parts and always adds immense color and rhythm to any song. And I think Ry Cooder's solo on Lipstick Sunset is one of the most perfect, beautiful solos every committed to vinyl.

Regarding the belt twist, I did try it when I first got the table, but I managed to do it wrong, and the platter started running backwards! (My wife sometimes lets me go out on my own.) So I left it straight. The guy I bought it from said he had replaced the belt, so I don't know if it's got the same specs as the original. How should the twist be done?

Topshelf

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Re: Skipping issue with Well Tempered classic
« Reply #25 on: 26 Aug 2021, 11:10 am »
If you put the belt on flat and it spins remove it at the point of the motor wheel and flip it or turn it in on itself and put it back on the wheel you should have it twisted once either side of the wheel?

Whitespider

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Re: Skipping issue with Well Tempered classic
« Reply #26 on: 26 Aug 2021, 06:44 pm »
As stated in the previous post, just flip the belt over at the pulley.  I think you may have misunderstood the idea and ended up putting a loop at the pulley which would caused the turntable platter to spin backward.  This photo of my Well Tempered Record Player may help. Also, notice the thickness of the belt.  This is how the original belt for the table looks.  I have some belts that are both thicke, wider and more rubber-band-like which make the platter spin at the wrong speed running in the 34.xx rpm area. That is well above spec.  Unlike the original square base WTT which would allow for adjustment of the belt and possible correction of speed, the later models with the round hole do not allow this.


Creed

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Re: Skipping issue with Well Tempered classic
« Reply #27 on: 27 Aug 2021, 01:40 am »
You need to get messy, when you drop arm it should not go towards spindle. It's not that bad draining cup if you can remove arm, lock down tonearm and pour it in silicone container. If you have plenty of extra fluid use a q tip and dip in cup and through away fluid/q-tips.

Ears Deluxe

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Re: Skipping issue with Well Tempered classic
« Reply #28 on: 27 Aug 2021, 01:46 am »
Ah! The photo really does help. And yes, I was putting a loop in the belt, which was obviously wrong. My belt looks like yours, Whitesnake.