10 rap songs to change the minds of people who hate rap

Wayner · « **Reply #20 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 04:55 pm »

Because I think the entire post is directed at people like me. My thought on the subject is that you can't change the minds of people who hate RAP. Please, this is mostly a free world. Listen to what you like in the privacy of your own home. I'm just trying to be honest, perhaps I'm a bit brutal. I don't hate people who listen to RAP, or even those who perform it. I just the whole genre has an incredable list of problems (that I pointed out) and that is probably the reason guys like me just don't want to hear it.

Wayner

maxwalrath · « **Reply #21 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 04:56 pm »

Wayner! Thanks buddy

. Your open mindedness is an inspiration! Don't get offended, I don't want to start an argument, I just want to discourage an argument about the merits of the genre of music in this thread.

Quote from: Wayner on 17 Jan 2009, 03:35 pm

I'm sure you will all hate me but there isn't even one song that would change my mind.

Maybe my original post was a little misleading. I don't like most rap music out there, so I can't expect anyone else to "embrace" a genre of music where you have to dig so far to find the diamonds in the rough. Rather, I want to find 10 songs that the average music lover might find worthwhile, and might be thought provoking and enjoyable enough to help people find redeeming qualities in the genre. With that context, I hope you find it impossible to say that you will dislike 100% of a sample of songs you have not heard yet.

After getting a nice email from Larkston Zinaspic, I was reminded that there are literally hundreds of genres of music I have no exposure to, or have my own prejudices about. However, I would think that if a buddy of mine put together a mix-CD of some genre I didn't like, I would give it a listen, and try not to insult the genre while he was making it. With that in mind, lets keep the nay-saying to a minimum.

Quote from: Wayner on 17 Jan 2009, 03:35 pm

I think the "music" has many problems one being the culture it crawled out of.

I might guess you don't know much about the origin of the music, or what culture it was spawned from. It was started in the 70's, in party scenes in NYC when DJ's separated bass and drum beats from funk and rock songs for people to dance to, and hype-person of the party would get the crowd into it in various ways that, at some point, included rhyming. Perhaps you are referring to Gangster Rap, which "crawled out of" a tough-guy culture. For the purposes of my top-10 list, I don't anticipate much gangster rap. Rather, as was already written, the list would probably include a few positive songs where it would be hard to paint the culture of origin in a negative light.

Quote from: Wayner on 17 Jan 2009, 03:35 pm

The second is the message which is usually slurred with negative, anti-establishment blah, blah, blahs. Even the volume level the music is played at, ESPECIALLY IN THE LISTENER'S CAR, is very disrespectful and again shows the arrogance of the culture.

I agree this is the usual. The goal here is to highlight the atypical.

orientalexpress · « **Reply #22 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 04:57 pm »

beastie boys,

,got a fight for your right. aa

lapsan

Wayner · « **Reply #23 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 05:01 pm »

I do have an open mind. I've heard the music and don't like it....any of it. That doesn't mean I'm not open minded. It means I personally think that RAP (rhythm and poetry) sucks. FYI, I also hate opera and country-western music too but for a host of different reasons.

Wayner

maxwalrath · « **Reply #24 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 05:08 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 17 Jan 2009, 05:01 pm

I do have an open mind. I've heard the music and don't like it....any of it. That doesn't mean I'm not open minded.

Glad you have an open mind. Perhaps you will agree with me that some of the songs we put together are less crappy than rap you have heard before, as it sounds like we both dislike the same thing about rap music. Or, perhaps not. In either case, you would not have heard most (or all) of the songs on this yet-to-be-made list, so with an open mind, I would ask you to reserve your judgment....and I in turn will pledge not to voice my feelings if you start a thread about a genre of music I dislike. Maybe you can expose me to some music I wouldn't have given a chance to otherwise.

emac · « **Reply #25 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 05:14 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 17 Jan 2009, 03:35 pm

I'm sure you will all hate me but there isn't even one song that would change my mind. I think the "music" has many problems one being the culture it crawled out of. The second is the message which is usually slurred with negative, anti-establishment blah, blah, blahs. Even the volume level the music is played at, ESPECIALLY IN THE LISTENER'S CAR, is very disrespectful and again shows the arrogance of the culture. The neighbor kid tried to play this shit outside one day this summer, playing basketball. I told him that his "boombox" was going to have an accident if he didn't shut it off. Later, his dad came home and I told him what had happened. He said good and gave me a beer.

Wayner

No one is saying that you should have to change your mind about hip hop. While that is the title of the thread, I've interpreted this thread as a chance to list good hip hop that open minded people could listen to if they felt so inclined. You obviously don't care to listen to hip hop, and that's fine. But it's the rest of the content of your post that is the problem, and the main reason for the thread. I'll compare hip hop to electronic music for a moment here. When I tell people I listen to electronic music and have the opportunity to explain that it's far more than just club music, the majority of people keep an open mind to it even if they don't care much for the genre. But with hip hop, as soon as some people hear the term (never mind the music itself) it invokes an instant negative reaction, which is interesting. It's almost as if hip hop = gang banging thugs, which it is not. Hip hop is a culture, and just like all cultures there are some positives and some negatives. Also, much of hip hop up through the Golden Era and now with some underground groups has a positive message, does not have to be played loudly to sound good, and can be listened to by anyone, regardless of race.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #26 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 05:32 pm »

Agreed, electronica is more than Progressive Trance or Techno - there are sub genres that are totally different - down tempo, trip hop, space music etc.

As for rap, well most also lump this together. I am not a fan of much rap, but there are tunes that I like from the genre.

In a quiet, lightly crowded room I would also admit the same of country - there is some older Dwight that I can live with - shhh.

Brown · « **Reply #27 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 05:43 pm »

The music is great to dance to. Its the lyrics that turn me off. Now back in my day when I blasted my rock music while playing ball we heard the same thing from the elders. Our music was loud and penetrating to say the least.
I never thought that one day I would react to music in that manner. At close to sixty now its deja vu all over again. Enjoy the music, live and let live.

JerryM · « **Reply #28 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 06:00 pm »

Bawitdaba by Kid Rock.

I never really cared for this genre, either. However, after seeing Kid show up in Iraq on Christmas day '06 and play for our Troops, I think this guy is pretty cool.

Just my .02,
Jerry

bunnyma357 · « **Reply #29 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 06:53 pm »

D'Angelo - Devil's Pie is a great song, but not sure it would be classified as rap. I have trouble segmenting stuff into specific genres.

Jim C

rockadanny · « **Reply #30 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 07:36 pm »

emac - You are correct. My intent was not to dis the music. Bad choice of words on my part. Instead of saying I expected it to "improve", it would have been better had I said, "came around more to my liking." This is what I meant.

BillB · « **Reply #31 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 07:56 pm »

I think it is funny that some will point out all the negative connotations of some rap songs, shall I make a list?

Rap:

Drug use
Womanizing
Anti-establishment
Anti-culture
Pro violence

Rock:

Ditto

Sorry if you can't see that.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #32 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 08:05 pm »

RAP artists.... http://digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/pages/best_rap-artists.html

I did think M.C. Hammer had talent....

...................better than "ice,ice, baby" Vanilla Ice.

Time line....starts at 1970 .... http://digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/pages/best_rap-timeline1.html

yammy1688 · « **Reply #33 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 08:30 pm »

Few of my favorite hip-hop artists.

Atmosphere - that night (dedicated to someone who died at one of his concerts)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIfykN76yY4

Immortal technique - I don't like the remixed classical, but the lyrics are very intense
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dRgYd5Mxs0&feature=PlayList&p=CFE68BD75CF5B6FE&playnext=1&index=33

Immortal technique - you never know (tells a very sad tale)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3QDpy_OXWE

Atmosphere - shrapnel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwcCzXpWjnU

Immortal technique - point of no return (a rather insightful diatribe of history/current events)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQl_vkhL6oc&feature=related

I like dark stuff

Hip-hop is just like any other genre of music; most of it is crap

I find it odd that people would cast aspersions on a whole genre of music these days. I suppose history is bound to repeat itself, as the same exact thing happened to pretty much all musical genres as they were emerging. The biggest gripe tends to relate to the subject matter, which I think is further perpetrated by the the whole multitude of songs featuring gangsta/bling/drinkin 40/fuckin ho's and nothing else. These are the bad songs

The good ones may still feature the same subject matter, but is lyrically weaved in such a way as to be insightful. A satire if you will.

Hip-hop is still very new, and I have no doubt it will one day be accepted, and respected as music. It will just take a while to sort out the good from the bad. Being 31 and having grown up just north of downtown los angeles (echo park) I was exposed to this stuff constantly, so I know what it's like on both sides of the fence.

emac · « **Reply #34 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 08:49 pm »

Quote from: yammy1688 on 17 Jan 2009, 08:30 pm

Hip-hop is just like any other genre of music; most of it is crap I find it odd that people would cast aspersions on a whole genre of music these days. I suppose history is bound to repeat itself, as the same exact thing happened to pretty much all musical genres as they were emerging. The biggest gripe tends to relate to the subject matter, which I think is further perpetrated by the the whole multitude of songs featuring gangsta/bling/drinkin 40/fuckin ho's and nothing else. These are the bad songs The good ones may still feature the same subject matter, but is lyrically weaved in such a way as to be insightful. A satire if you will.

Hip-hop is still very new, and I have no doubt it will one day be accepted, and respected as music. It will just take a while to sort out the good from the bad. Being 31 and having grown up just north of downtown los angeles (echo park) I was exposed to this stuff constantly, so I know what it's like on both sides of the fence.

Indeed. To me as well, much of hip hop is terrible and not worth listening to. It really went down the toilet when it started to go mainstream.

But I think you've hit on something that's important. You and I are roughly the same age and grew up around big cities (NYC in my case), and we've been exposed to hip hop for most of our lives. So, for us and a decent number of people in our generation, we grew up with hip hop. It is basically the music of an urban and suburban generation. It's got it's good and bad, and like it or love it, it's here to stay.

Wayner · « **Reply #35 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 08:54 pm »

I will say that all music tends to influence other genre. As an example, classical music has found its foundation in many "art rock" type bands like Yes, Pink Floyd, etc. Blues music has a blend of influences. Cajun music probably is a mixture of folk, jazz, rock, country, old time (polka) and god knows what else. Lots of this kind of music has a rich history. It's from a blend of cultures and races. Perhaps I just don't feel the grass-roots of rap. It's too urban for me and it seems devoid of any other cultural blends or influences. Perhaps, as some of you pointed out, it created itself. I'm not going to deny that it doesn't have a big following, but I'm not one of them. Perhaps as time moves forward, it will progress into something more appealing to me. The one real problem I do have is musicianship. Is there any? the music just doesn't seem to have any soul to it. Just sounds like endless midi-loops.

Electronica music I consider to be a child of bands like Depesche Mode and Thomas Dolby. Am I wrong on this? This kind of music I can enjoy because it has obeyed some of the rules of music, with rhythm, a melody, counter melody and all that other stuff that has been the definition of music (rhythm, melody and harmony by Webster's definition).

Wayner

maxwalrath · « **Reply #36 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 09:07 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 17 Jan 2009, 08:54 pm

I will say that all music tends to influence other genre. As an example, classical music has found its foundation in many "art rock" type bands like Yes, Pink Floyd, etc. Blues music has a blend of influences. Cajun music probably is a mixture of folk, jazz, rock, country, old time (polka) and god knows what else. Lots of this kind of music has a rich history. It's from a blend of cultures and races. Perhaps I just don't feel the grass-roots of rap. It's too urban for me and it seems devoid of any other cultural blends or influences. Perhaps, as some of you pointed out, it created itself. I'm not going to deny that it doesn't have a big following, but I'm not one of them. Perhaps as time moves forward, it will progress into something more appealing to me. The one real problem I do have is musicianship. Is there any? the music just doesn't seem to have any soul to it. Just sounds like endless midi-loops.

Electronica music I consider to be a child of bands like Depesche Mode and Thomas Dolby. Am I wrong on this? This kind of music I can enjoy because it has obeyed some of the rules of music, with rhythm, a melody, counter melody and all that other stuff that has been the definition of music (rhythm, melody and harmony by Webster's definition).

Wayner

Nice, that thoughtful explanation of a lack of musicianship and ties to other influences will help pick 10 tracks. (A track from The Roots now has to be on my list)

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #37 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 09:08 pm »

Wayner ....

Quote

Electronica music I consider to be a child of bands like Depesche Mode and Thomas Dolby. Am I wrong on this?

Well Wayner ....I always thought it started here....

1961...Robert Moog and Herbert Deutsch invent the Moog synthesizer.

Here's another timeline...

http://digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/pages/best_timeline-elec.html

PhilNYC · « **Reply #38 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 09:17 pm »

A couple of rap tunes that I've liked:

Without Me - Eminem
Bust a Move - Young MC
Rapper's Delight - Sugar Hill Gang
Another One Bites the Dust - Queen

PhilNYC · « **Reply #39 on:** 17 Jan 2009, 09:25 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 17 Jan 2009, 08:54 pm

Perhaps I just don't feel the grass-roots of rap. It's too urban for me and it seems devoid of any other cultural blends or influences. Perhaps, as some of you pointed out, it created itself. I'm not going to deny that it doesn't have a big following, but I'm not one of them. Perhaps as time moves forward, it will progress into something more appealing to me. The one real problem I do have is musicianship. Is there any? the music just doesn't seem to have any soul to it. Just sounds like endless midi-loops.

My understanding of the "origins of rap" is that it essentially came from the inner city where people couldn't afford real musical instruments...and one of the creative outlets kids had was to rap on top of music playing on the radio. Eventually, the creativity led to turntables at clubs, which is one of the reasons why samples and loops play such a big role in rap.

Overall, I'm not a huge fan of rap, but I do think there are pockets of real creativity in the genre. Unfortunately, much of what gets published by the music labels ends up being garbage that they think they can market, but that's no different from what gets pushed by those labels in any genre of popular music....