Anyone using subs with their Omega's and if yes, do you crossover your Omega's?

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sunnydaze

Thanks, definitely worth a shot for ~$25 a pair.  Much cheaper to experiment with than the First Watt B4 Active Crossover :smoke:

Yeh...he was initially looking at an active x-over approach, but is very happy that this simple and cheap passive solution is working so well.

HiFiJeff

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Do you have a link to these Gizmos?


HiFiJeff

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http://www.parts-express.com/brand/harrison-labs/265

Thanks a lot for this info. I am for sure trying this. So I would connect these in between my pre amp and amp and the connector would plug into the amp?

HiFiJeff

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Yeh...he was initially looking at an active x-over approach, but is very happy that this simple and cheap passive solution is working so well.

So if I want to send a signal of say 70HZ and above to my Omega's, I would buy the 70HZ High Pass ones? I would assume that the low pass ones would send anything 70 and below to the speakers. Is that correct?

sunnydaze

Thanks a lot for this info. I am for sure trying this. So I would connect these in between my pre amp and amp and the connector would plug into the amp?

Not 100% sure, but I think the high pass filter plugs into amp input.

Something to keep in mind when using these......
Since your main amp is now not receiving LF info,  you cannot connect the sub high level via speaker cables.  You will now need to connect it low level via RCA i/c.  This means your preamp needs to have 2 pair of variable outputs.

If preamp only has one pair of outputs, an adapter like this provides a workable solution:

http://www.vampirewire.com/product-page/de4dabd4-c911-0c4c-02f2-ca28f08f43b2

But more "junk" in the chain, might possibly effect sonics?

pstrisik

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You can also go direct to Harrison Labs to purchase: http://www.hlabs.com/products/crossovers/

Technically, this is still an active crossover (or high pass filter) since it is before the amplifier.  Passive crossovers are generally considered to be those after the amplifier (like the ones inside multi-way speakers).  Though there is some confusion about terminology.  Sometimes people refer to powered crossovers as active and non powered as passive.

To answer your question, yes, just insert the filter in line with the interconnect that goes to your amp (ie, before your amp).  Go to the link and you'll see an example photo of the filter.  One end is female RCA, the other is male RCA.  Doesn't matter which end of the interconnect - either coming out of the source or preamp or going into the amp.

And yes, you want a high pass filter.  The term means that frequencies higher than the filter designation are passed through, lower ones are not.

HTH  ..........Peter

sunnydaze

So if I want to send a signal of say 70HZ and above to my Omega's, I would buy the 70HZ High Pass ones? I would assume that the low pass ones would send anything 70 and below to the speakers. Is that correct?

Exactly correct!     :thumb:

HiFiJeff

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But my subs will still be receiving 70hz and above signals, correct? Just like my mains will be receiving?


sunnydaze


Technically, this is still an active crossover (or high pass filter) since it is before the amplifier.  Passive crossovers are generally considered to be those after the amplifier (like the ones inside multi-way speakers).  Though there is some confusion about terminology.  Sometimes people refer to powered crossovers as active and non powered as passive.



Spot on accurate!   :thumb:

I am guilty of this terminology error / confusion.

sunnydaze

But my subs will still be receiving 70hz and above signals, correct? Just like my mains will be receiving?

If you connect your sub low level via IC, it will receive the full musical signal.   Use the subs internal "low pass" filter to control how high it plays.

When using Harrison hi-pass filters, you must connect sub this way....for reason I explained in reply 25 above.

HiFiJeff

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Not 100% sure, but I think the high pass filter plugs into amp input.

Something to keep in mind when using these......
Since your main amp is now not receiving LF info,  you cannot connect the sub high level via speaker cables.  You will now need to connect it low level via RCA i/c.  This means your preamp needs to have 2 pair of variable outputs.

If preamp only has one pair of outputs, an adapter like this provides a workable solution:

http://www.vampirewire.com/product-page/de4dabd4-c911-0c4c-02f2-ca28f08f43b2

But more "junk" in the chain, might possibly effect sonics?

I actually have one of those. Back when I was running dual subs in a home theater system and my AVR only had 1 out I had to use that.

sunnydaze

I actually have one of those. Back when I was running dual subs in a home theater system and my AVR only had 1 out I had to use that.

In a traditional 2 channel music system that does not output a single LFE channel (like a HT receiver does), you need two:  one for L preamp output, one for R.   

If using one sub, you run both signals into sub, and the sub's internal circuitry combines the signal.

If using two subs,  run L into one, R into the other.

HiFiJeff

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In a traditional 2 channel music system that does not output a single LFE channel (like a HT receiver does), you need two:  one for L preamp output, one for R.   

If using one sub, you run both signals into sub, and the sub's internal circuitry combines the signal.

If using two subs,  run L into one, R into the other.

So you are saying it my be a better solution to have a pre-amp that has a left and right sub out?

sunnydaze

So you are saying it my be a better solution to have a pre-amp that has a left and right sub out?

Not saying which is better,  just addressing practical issues of connectivity.

I'm simply saying.....
If you use 70Hz high-pass filters to block LF info from your main amp / main speakers ....
Then you cannot connect sub to main amp via speaker cables.

Reason:   main amp is now only outputting 70Hz and above.  It does not contain anything below 70Hz.....which is what the sub needs!

Sub needs to get LF info, so you need to connect it to preamp outputs via IC.
The sub will receive the full signal, and the user then sets sub's internal low-pass filter to control how high into the FR the sub plays.

The above applies to a traditional 2 channel listening system, not a HT receiver.

If your HT receiver has a single LFE output for sub (which most do), then run it into your sub's single LFE input (which most subs have).  Typically,  the listener sets the sub's crossover point inside the HT receiver.  Once setup, the HT receiver outputs XX Hz and below into the sub.

XX = low-pass frequency that the listener designates


HiFiJeff

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Not saying which is better,  just addressing practical issues of connectivity.

I'm simply saying.....
If you use 70Hz high-pass filters to block LF info from your main amp / main speakers ....
Then you cannot connect sub to main amp via speaker cables.

Reason:   main amp is now only outputting 70Hz and above.  It does not contain anything below 70Hz.....which is what the sub needs!

Sub needs to get LF info, so you need to connect it to preamp outputs via IC.
The sub will receive the full signal, and the user then sets sub's internal low-pass filter to control how high into the FR the sub plays.

The above applies to a traditional 2 channel listening system, not a HT receiver.

If your HT receiver has a single LFE output for sub (which most do), then run it into your sub's single LFE input (which most subs have).  Typically,  the listener sets the sub's crossover point inside the HT receiver.  So the sub receives XX Hz and below from the HT receiver.

I get what you are saying but this is the point I am trying to make. Will the subs get 70HZ signals and above if I keep them hooked up the way I do now? I know a lot of people using their Omega 8's all the way up to 150HZ signals. So what if I want to send 70HZ and above to my main speakers with the built in subs and then crossover the subs at 150HZ, or a little lower and then send real low frequencies to one bigger sub? Especially for home theater use or hip hop music or something like that? Would you suggest that? I am trying to get the best of both worlds out of my system, that's what prompted me to ask this question to begin with.

sunnydaze

Sorry, I'm not clear on your actual specific setup, so I can't comment.

can you link me to where it is explained clearly?

Photos of your actual connections are helpful.

HiFiJeff

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Reason:   main amp is now only outputting 70Hz and above.  It does not contain anything below 70Hz.....which is what the sub needs!

This was kind of my next question. Since the amp is now only getting 70Hz signals and above, does this also make the amp run more efficient? Because it doesn't have to produce the lower frequencies?

mrvco

I get what you are saying but this is the point I am trying to make. Will the subs get 70HZ signals and above if I keep them hooked up the way I do now? I know a lot of people using their Omega 8's all the way up to 150HZ signals. So what if I want to send 70HZ and above to my main speakers with the built in subs and then crossover the subs at 150HZ, or a little lower and then send real low frequencies to one bigger sub? Especially for home theater use or hip hop music or something like that? Would you suggest that? I am trying to get the best of both worlds out of my system, that's what prompted me to ask this question to begin with.

I think I understand what you're wanting to do...

Option #1

Pre-amp Output #1 --> 70Hz In-line Crossover --> Amp -->  Speaker Cables to full-range speakers receiving 70 Hz+
                                                                                   -->  Speaker Cables to speaker level input on small sub receiving 70 Hz+ w/ Low-pass set to 150 Hz
Pre-amp Output #2 (or LFE output) -------------------------> Big sub w/ Low-pass crossover set to ~70 Hz

Option #2

Pre-amp Output #1 --> 70Hz In-line Crossover --> Amp --> Speaker Cables to full-range speakers receiving 70 Hz+
Pre-amp Output #2 --> Stereo RCA Cables --> Big Sub RCA Inputs --> Big Sub Low-pass set to play 70Hz and below
Big Sub Pre-amp Output sending 70 Hz+ --> Stereo RCA Cables --> Small Sub RCA Inputs --> Low-pass set to 150 Hz



Edit: And yes, the full-range amplifier is doing less work with the lower freqs filtered out.