[Dracule1]

I'm jumping on a refurbished 57, always wanted to own for its glorious midrange.  Is the midrange of the 63 better?  Most seem to think the 63 imaging/soundstaging is better and extend higher and lower.  Also 63 plays louder.  I guess what I'm trying to ask is this.  If you are fortunate to have both or heard both side by side, which speaker is more enjoyable to listen to.

[Dracule1]

No Quad fans here?

[Russell Dawkins]

I've heard them both but not side by side. The 63 sounded a little more full in the upper bass/lower midrange, I think. It imaged spectacularly. I can't remember how well the 57 imaged.

As to which is more enjoyable I'd guess, overall, the 63.

If I were buying the 57, I'd be inclined to go all the way and also use Quad II amps and control units, like the ones I am selling. 

[stokessd]

I've got a little experience with both the original Quad ESLs and the 63's.   

First of all the newest of the Original ESLs are now about 30 years old, and the oldest are starting to think about drawing social security. So listening to a non-refurbished pair of the original ESLs isn't really knowing what they can do.  The same goes with a lot of the 63's.  So a comparison of non-rebuilt Original ESLs and 63's is as much a test of how well they have aged as anything else. 

Both of the speakers are very nice, and IMHO you can't really go wrong with either.  The original ESLs have an amazing midrange that makes vocals come into the room like very few other speakers can.  The original ESL is volume limited to a greater extent than the 63's.  So that they are dynamically limited.  The original ESL's need about 15 watts of power, more than that doesn't produce more volume, just sparks. 

The original ESL's have reasonable bass output, but won't rattle the windows.  The 63's have a bit more bass extension and can play louder, so the music has a bit more foundation.  Even with the 63's, don't expect a lot of window rattling. 

The treble in both are good, with the 63's having a bit more dispersion and a bit more extension. 

The critical midrange is an interesting dichotomy.  To my ears, the original ESLs have the edge on transparency, but it's only slight.  It seems a bit more evident due to the less extended treble and bass. 

The original ESLs are more intimate, they don't play as loudly and really work well in a smaller more cozy setting.  The 63's can fill a larger room and can work on a grander scale. 

To my eyes, the 63's look more like a finished commercial product, and less like a garage design (both inside and out).  The original ESLs with their wood frames and sharp extruded grilles has that look that makes me want to not display them prominently.

The Braun LE-1s offer the sound quality of the original ESLs with a build quality typical of German products.  It's a shame you can't find them easily. 

Hope that helps,
Sheldon

BTW, I've got a rebuilt set of 63's that I need ot peddle.

[Dracule1]

Thanks for your impressions.  I think the best guy to get restored ESL57 or 63 is from Quads Unlimited here in the US. 

Sheldon, I completely agree with you.  Most people base their impressions of the Quads on unrestored speakers that are at least 30 years old and are meaningless. 57 fans seem to be more diehard than 63 fans.  Most claim 57s have the best midrange of any speaker ever produced.  I think David Chesky of Chesky Records use the 57s in his recording studio.  But you know, I'm enamored by the looks of the 57s... stylish space heaters.   As for build quality, Quads Unlimited seem to restore them to a level that is far beyond factory fresh Quads back in the day.

Braun LE-1s, only 500 produced. I don't get it... the German company took the original 57 innards and put nice aluminum frames around it.  How much of a difference can that make except for large markup in price?  Reproductions using new parts are now available for only 5000 Euros. 

[Dracule1]

Does anyone know how to find out the production year of a set of 57s based on their serial number?  I know of a pair with 22xxx serial number.  How old do you think the pair is? I was thinking 35 years old, but since about 70,000 pairs of 57s were produced and the highest serial number I've seen was around 43xxx, I think the pair is more like 45 years old.

[JohnR]

Does anyone know how to find out the production year of a set of 57s based on their serial number?

It's online somewhere, just google. Mine were made in 1972.

[stokessd]

Braun LE-1s, only 500 produced. I don't get it... the German company took the original 57 innards and put nice aluminum frames around it.  How much of a difference can that make except for large markup in price?  Reproductions using new parts are now available for only 5000 Euros. 

I just did a complete rebuild of a set of LE-1's for a friend in Hollywood.  They are different than the Original ESL's in that the input transformer is different, and the power supplies are slightly different.  The real big difference is rigidity of the frames, and the general build quality of the entire speaker.  Much Much better than the original quads.  I totally get it, they actually look good from any angle. 

The S/Ns of the Brauns I rebuilt were in the low 2000's, so either the serial numbers didn't start with 1 or there were more than 500 pairs made.

Also with any rebuild service you choose, I'd recommend that you get acoustic measurements of the rebuilt panels, and the completed speaker.  In my experience with the original ESLs, the treble panels can vary wildly in the stator  spacing etc.  This is especially a problem if they have been stored in a hot attic.  So putting some new paint on the stators and slapping a new diaphragm in them won't fix a fundamentally unbalanced pair of treble panels.  Over the many years I've been rebuilding quads (I started in 1994), I've developed measurement fixtures, hardware and software, for electrical measurement as well as acoustic measurement, both at the panel level and the completed speaker level.  This is very important to gauge the quality of the rebuild and to match drivers for quad performance exceeding the factory spec. 

Sheldon

[Dracule1]

JohnR, I tried googling but no luck on how to determine year of manufacture based on serial number. 

[Dracule1]

Hi Sheldon,

Quads Unlimited treble panel was reviewed and measured here with four other well known Quad restorers:

http://www.quadesl.org/Album/InterviewsReviews/GangofFive/gangoffive.html

BTW, I didn't realized you were one of them.  Sorry.

[stokessd]

JohnR, I tried googling but no luck on how to determine year of manufacture based on serial number.

some of the rectifier blocks have a manufacturing date stamped on them.  Man do not, so it's a shot in the dark.

Original Quad Manufacturing Date Database:

SN:  00001 - 600000           MFG Date:  "A long time ago"

[stokessd]

Hi Sheldon,

Quads Unlimited treble panel was reviewed and measured here with four other well known Quad restorers:

http://www.quadesl.org/Album/InterviewsReviews/GangofFive/gangoffive.html

BTW, I didn't realized you were one of them.  Sorry.

No problem, I'm only marginally a rebuilder.  I don't really advertise, and it's only a hobby for me.  I think I was the first rebuilder after Quad stopped selling Orginal ESL panels.  I published a quad rebuilding article in Positive Feedback magazine back when it was actually printed.  I do a couple pairs of speakers a year, if people find me.  If I actually advertised, I might be up to my ears in work, and I'd never see the light of day.

BTW, rebuilding the original ESL's is a huge PITA compared to rebuilding the 63's.  The 63's panels are a much better design with more consistent performance than the original ESL panels.  But quad was nice enough to use rubbish glue on the 63 stators, so they fail all the time.  The stators debonding are responsible for more 63 issues than anything else. 

I find the 63's to be a better design overall, but it's hard to argue with that amazing original ESL midrange. 

[Dracule1]

some of the rectifier blocks have a manufacturing date stamped on them.  Man do not, so it's a shot in the dark.

Original Quad Manufacturing Date Database:

SN:  00001 - 600000           MFG Date:  "A long time ago"

"A long time ago"  Are you serious?

[stokessd]

"A long time ago"  Are you serious?

For consumer electronics, yes it is a very long time ago.  Very few consumer electronics products still are being refurbished and used that is 30-55 years old and still compete with modern equivalents.

[Don_S]

And even fewer can boast that the manufacturer is still in business.

For consumer electronics, yes it is a very long time ago.  Very few consumer electronics products still are being refurbished and used that is 30-55 years old and still compete with modern equivalents.

[JohnR]

JohnR, I tried googling but no luck on how to determine year of manufacture based on serial number.

Here's a list:

http://quadesl.nl:1080/quad-esl-serial-numbers.html

[Unison845]

Recently, I have search for a pair of speaker with the best midrange transparency for reference, and I listened to every pair of ESL that Quad made, and other ESL. My conclusion is that the QUAD ESL57 is the champion in that area.After 4 months of hunting, I have found 2 pairs in mint condition, the bronze was made in the 60, the black in the 80's. I added 5 RTR Electrostatic for the tweeter in the middle stacked QUAD cover 8Khz up, below 100Hz I used a 16in woofer, this system is now considered as full range. The system is tri-amp withe Eagle 2A for the bass, 845 for the mid, and a pair of custom PP KT66 direct driven to the RTR wihout any transformer. The Quad ESL57 is truly a champion in the mid, I dont think there is any other speaker that has better sound in the 100Hz - 8Khz than a the ESL57.

[Dracule1]

Here's a list:

http://quadesl.nl:1080/quad-esl-serial-numbers.html

Thanks! That's very helpful.

[Dracule1]

Recently, I have search for a pair of speaker with the best midrange transparency for reference, and I listened to every pair of ESL that Quad made, and other ESL. My conclusion is that the QUAD ESL57 is the champion in that area.After 4 months of hunting, I have found 2 pairs in mint condition, the bronze was made in the 60, the black in the 80's. I added 5 RTR Electrostatic for the tweeter in the middle stacked QUAD cover 8Khz up, below 100Hz I used a 16in woofer, this system is now considered as full range. The system is tri-amp withe Eagle 2A for the bass, 845 for the mid, and a pair of custom PP KT66 direct driven to the RTR wihout any transformer. The Quad ESL57 is truly a champion in the mid, I dont think there is any other speaker that has better sound in the 100Hz - 8Khz than a the ESL57.

That is one crazy setup!  BTW have you compared the midrange of the original Martin Logan CLS with that of the 57?   Although the CLS had unbearable problems in the treble and bass, the CLS in its first iteration was the best midrange I've heard.

[Unison845]

Yes, I did listened to the CLS, the Acoustat with and without the tube amp and many others. For me, the other alternative to the Quad 57 are: Beveridge, Stax 81 (very very low sensitivity, I had a pair and sold them, wish I still have them).