[Dan Banquer]

As an ex manufacturer I can tell you some of the experiences I had.
Audiophiles come in two different groups as far as this is concerned. The first group appreciates things like RFI/EMI filters at the AC input and regulated power supplies in their power amps.
The second group would rather pay less for the individual unit and use assorted power conditioners and expensive cables.
            d.b.

[Carlman]

As an ex manufacturer I can tell you some of the experiences I had.
Audiophiles come in two different groups as far as this is concerned. The first group appreciates things like RFI/EMI filters at the AC input and regulated power supplies in their power amps.
The second group would rather pay less for the individual unit and use assorted power conditioners and expensive cables.
            d.b.

{SARCASM ON}
Yeah, McIntosh doesn't really give a rat's ass about their power conditioning... so true.  I know Anthony at Aberdeen barely knows what he's doing with power supplies either... so sad, really.. especially since I paid $600 for it. 

So, I guess I'll just keep buying cheap gear and getting my band-aid-fix power conditioners... 

I guess you could say there are those who over generalize to make a point and others that actually listen to their systems.   

{SARCASM OFF}

[Dan Banquer]

As an ex manufacturer I can tell you some of the experiences I had.
Audiophiles come in two different groups as far as this is concerned. The first group appreciates things like RFI/EMI filters at the AC input and regulated power supplies in their power amps.
The second group would rather pay less for the individual unit and use assorted power conditioners and expensive cables.
            d.b.

{SARCASM ON}
Yeah, McIntosh doesn't really give a rat's ass about their power conditioning... so true.  I know Anthony at Aberdeen barely knows what he's doing with power supplies either... so sad, really.. especially since I paid $600 for it. 

So, I guess I'll just keep buying cheap gear and getting my band-aid-fix power conditioners... 

I guess you could say there are those who over generalize to make a point and others that actually listen to their systems.   

{SARCASM OFF}

I just love it when people accuse me of not listening. That’s when I think all the audio meetings and presentations I went to, and all the times I went to someone else’s place to listen, or out to a retail shop to listen to whatever. I also think about all the time I spent listening to various recordings during prototype work on all the gear I designed and built. I also can reflect on all the time I spend in my Lab/office listening to music either for the sheer pleasure of it or while I am working on a project.
I can even think to my formal training in music, practicing and playing up to 12 hours a day and those ear training courses I got to take every semester. Are you aware of how much you really have to listen if you are playing music with other people? Trust me when I tell you that it gets  pretty intense either when either you are reading music or doing improvisation and sometimes a bit of both. My minor was Tympani; which calls for the timpanist to change tuning on the fly. My teacher made me practice those intervals in a “quote” melody, which was without a key center and definitely atonal. I could only take an hour of that a day as it was just too morbid.

I am saving this post on my computer: and I will use it the next time someone decides that since I happen to design audio equipment and take electrical engineering seriously, that my only ability is to read a meter.

Carl: I believe you owe me an apology.
                   d.b.

[Carlman]

What, you can't take what you dish out?  I at least indicated sarcasm because I found your overgeneralization more humorous than offensive.  But so be it, this medium is tough to get your tone across... 

I'll apologize when you promise not to overgeneralize to make your points.

-C

[Dan Banquer]

What, you can't take what you dish out?  I at least indicated sarcasm because I found your overgeneralization more humorous than offensive.  But so be it, this medium is tough to get your tone across... 

I'll apologize when you promise not to overgeneralize to make your points.

-C

I did not make an "overgeneralization" as you call it. I do speak to my customers from time to time and I was just reporting what I had heard back from many of them.
It's that simple.
             d.b.

[PhilNYC]

I have a strong appreciation for sound engineering principles, yet have found it very difficult to ignore what I believe I hear when experimenting with power cords, conditioners, cables, break-in, etc.  Sometimes, the differences are small enough for me to believe I'm imagining the differences.  Other times, the differences are so significant that I believe I'd have to be insane for them not to be real differences....

[LightFire]

I was a long-time non-believer in power conditioning and power cords until I finally heard a black and white difference while comparing various forms of both in my system...

Did you ABX this?

Otherwise it doesn't count.

If you did it is a major breaktrough!!! You may be up for a Nobel Prize!

[zybar]

Did you ABX this?

Otherwise it doesn't count.

If you did it is a major breaktrough!!! You may be up for a Nobel Prize!

Lightfire,

We know your position on this topic...

Do you have to chime into every thread that talks about power cords making a difference?

Let the people who believe in it, believe in it. 

We have established multiple times that each side isn't going to convince the other, so can you please stop?

George

[Bill Baker]

We have established multiple times that each side isn't going to convince the other

 This quote should be indicated on every thread on AC. Nicely stated.

[Carlman]

I did not make an "overgeneralization" as you call it. I do speak to my customers from time to time and I was just reporting what I had heard back from many of them.
It's that simple.
             d.b.

OK, I understand.
I didn't directly say you don't listen.  That's stalemate to you, big guy.

Lightfire, yes I ABX'd it.  I ABX everything I do.  It's a part of my every day life.  It takes a little longer but I have to be sure of the results of my actions.  At work everyone gets mad at me in conference calls because I'll have a second one just like the first... and everyone has to say exactly the same things... just to see if the one element I changed in the project plan made a difference to everyone.  Only then do I know if that one change would be effective.

The best form of ABX is time travel.  If you don't travel through time and repeat experiences with only 1 change at a time, you really shouldn't comment on 'changes' of any type.  So, do you travel in time, Lightfire?

[LightFire]

Did you ABX this?

Otherwise it doesn't count.

If you did it is a major breaktrough!!! You may be up for a Nobel Prize!

Lightfire,

We know your position on this topic...

Do you have to chime into every thread that talks about power cords making a difference?

Let the people who believe in it, believe in it. 

We have established multiple times that each side isn't going to convince the other, so can you please stop?

George

I just would like to know if he "ABX that!"


Lots of people claim to hear a difference between power cords (purifiers as well) but no one have backed up the claim with a double blind test!

[Carlman]

I did!  Plus I use time travel!  Do you?

[Marbles]

Lightfire, we determined long ago that AC would be a double blind test free zone...please refrain from posting re: DBX's in the future.

[LightFire]

Lightfire, we determined long ago that AC would be a double blind test free zone...please refrain from posting re: DBX's in the future.

When did you guys determinde that and why?!

[LightFire]

I did!  Plus I use time travel!  Do you?

You could do it without "time travel". you just need help of other 2 people.

[Marbles]

Lightfire, we determined long ago that AC would be a double blind test free zone...please refrain from posting re: DBX's in the future.

When did you guys determinde that and why?!

4 years ago...Because it only leads to arguements with no resolutions.

[Carlman]

I did!  Plus I use time travel!  Do you?

You could do it without "time travel". you just need help of other 2 people.

It's just not the same.  With time travel, I KNOW it's the same and I can control the subjects and get their opinion, which is a more objective approach.  Once I'm involved my psychoacoustics play a factor... and I can't control that.

-C

[Carlman]

Lightfire, we determined long ago that AC would be a double blind test free zone...please refrain from posting re: DBX's in the future.

When did you guys determinde that and why?!

4 years ago...Because it only leads to arguements with no resolutions.

Or really silly ones, like the one I'm using to make a big fat point...

[TomS]

I didn't know that rule, but I am oh soooooo grateful for it.... Thanks!

[LightFire]

Lightfire, we determined long ago that AC would be a double blind test free zone...please refrain from posting re: DBX's in the future.

When did you guys determined that and why?!

4 years ago...Because it only leads to augments with no resolutions.

It actually leads to resolutions. If there is an audible difference we must be able to prove it beyond doubt.
I didn't see any official rule about "no ABX allowed" so I will chose to ignore it. Now if you guys want to make it official and ban the only existent reliable tool to differentiate between what really makes an audible difference and what doesn't. Then you should also change the name of the site to "The Subjective Audio Circle".