The VMPS "TWEAK"

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John Casler

The VMPS "TWEAK"
« on: 10 May 2003, 09:54 pm »
Recently I have been experimenting with My VMPS RM40s.

During that time I "placed" a pair of 626Rs with a pair of Dedicated Subs with one of my clients.

As it turns out the Dedicated is "so" dedicated to the 626, that all you do is wire the two in parallel and they blend perfectly.  Or of course you can bi-wire them.

Since my RM40s have the toggle switch, as a lark, I thought I would try this approach with them by flipping the toggle to the "up" position, and running a jumper cable between the binding posts.

WOW!!! :o  :o  :o

I couldn't beleive it.  I thought something must be going on here.

Most every aspect of the speaker improved and I didn't think that possible.

It was very noticable and prominent.  Something had changed.

The mids and highs were definately more "there".

I noticed in particular that the "sheen" of reality was now more there for metalic instruments.  Cymbals, triangles, and even the metal discs on a tamborine were clearer and more real.

Also the detailed nuance of strings was more present.  From violins to the Bass Guitar Solo I mentioned.  Strings now seemed more metalic if they were made of metal like guitar strings or more resiliant and sharp if they were made of gut.

Even "massed strings" on a couple old recordings I use seemed more deliniated into idividual instruments, playing together.

The brassiness of trumpets and french Horns was smoother and sweeter, but still with the bite needed to not sound silky or soft.

I also noticed a crisper and tighter "impact" to snare drums and percussion.  Where it seemed to me that this area was at one time a little "recessed" (I thought because the ribbons handled that area and could not move the air with enough force and magnitude) it was now highly energized and powerful.

High impact snare and rimshots could now be "felt" they had so much impact.

Male and Female voices, also improved.  Norah Jones, Diana Krall, James Taylor and even Mick Jagger all took a step back and didn't sound so over miked even though many times they are.

Center fill was locked as always but now more detailed than ever and with more "I'm right here in front of you'ness" (how do you like that term :lol: )

One of the most dramatic improvements was in the area of Bass.

Deeper, Dryer, Tighter and Cleaner.  It now sounds like I thought it should.  I, many times, thought the subdued bass was totally due to having the speakers well out into the room. (almost 7 feet to the front of the speaker)

Well it was not.  I recently came across a cut that I will be placing on my "Reference Cuts for VMPS" that is a BASS Guitar Solo like you can't believe, and this cut showed me that the VMPS Speakers DO have the Bass area sown up.

Now many of you have already ordered your Floor standing VMPS without the toggle and this has been going on for sometime, but those of you who have not done so might find this tweak of interest.

If you are already bi-amping or bi-wiring you are probably already enjoying the benefits.  I found that it works equally as well as bi-wiring, unless you are using a specially for bass cable and a specially for mid/tweets cable.

I also found that I liked it better if I went into the top (woofer) binding posts with the cable from the amp rather than going into the lower (mid/highs) posts.  This is because I wanted to maximize current to the woofers.

If this happens or not I don't know.

So all you need to do is prepare a set of jumper cables that will fit between the two sets of binding posts.  I have tried both spades and bananas and prefer bananas for this purpose.

I wanted a spade connection coming directly from the amps for the best and greatest contact area.  So I make my jumpers with bananas , which also allowed me to A-B the tweak easily by pulling the bananas and flipping the toggle.

And by the way, if you have the toggle you should flip the toggle about 15-20 times every couple months to keep the contacts wiped clean.

Anyhow, if any of you try this let me know of your result (if any) and if you found any other methods that might add to the tweak.

Boy do I love these speakers :mrgreen:

Juan R

The VMPS "TWEAK"
« Reply #1 on: 11 May 2003, 12:37 pm »
I did the tweak last night, I did not see any defference with cable on the top or low posts. In the sound . was an inprovement basically in the highs. the instruments more clear and better separation, but not a lot, just a minor improvement, I will keep that way. Thank you .

Xi-Trum

The VMPS "TWEAK"
« Reply #2 on: 12 May 2003, 07:16 pm »
Hi John, what cable did you use?  Thanks.

John Casler

The VMPS "TWEAK"
« Reply #3 on: 12 May 2003, 09:30 pm »
Quote from: Xi-Trum
Hi John, what cable did you use?  Thanks.


Not anything exotic, just short lengths of "Black Beauty" by Apature terminated with some good bananas.

Q

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 98
Re: The VMPS "TWEAK"
« Reply #4 on: 13 May 2003, 01:24 pm »
So, I take it that by doing this you are bypassing the switch contacts for a single-amp connection?  And, if you biamp, you will be taking the switch totally out of the circuit?  Is this correct?  

I wonder if this is the reason I was not totally happy with the bass during my previous auditions?? :?:

I also wonder about the pots used...usually pots are noisy items, and not very vibration friendly...so once you've found the resistance value that best suits your room/source, perhaps replacing the pots with good resistors of the same value would improve things?  Maybe put another 2 sets of binding posts on the back to place the correct resistance between?
Q

Quote from: John Casler
Recently I have been experimenting with My VMPS RM40s.

During that time I "placed" a pair of 626Rs with a pair of Dedicated Subs with one of my clients.

As it turns out the Dedicated is "so" dedicated to the 626, that all you do is wire the two in parallel and they blend perfectly.  Or of course you can bi-wire them.

Since my RM40s have the toggle switch, as a lark, I thought I would try this approach with them by flipping the toggle to the "up" position, and running a jumper cable between the binding posts.

WOW!!! :o  :o  :o

I couldn't beleive it.  I thought something must be going on here.

Most every aspect of the speaker improved and I didn't think that possible.

It was very noticable and prominent.  Something had changed.

The mids and highs were definately more "there".

I noticed in particular that the "sheen" of reality was now more there for metalic instruments.  Cymbals, triangles, and even the metal discs on a tamborine were clearer and more real.

Also the detailed nuance of strings was more present.  From violins to the Bass Guitar Solo I mentioned.  Strings now seemed more metalic if they were made of metal like guitar strings or more resiliant and sharp if they were made of gut.

Even "massed strings" on a couple old recordings I use seemed more deliniated into idividual instruments, playing together.

The brassiness of trumpets and french Horns was smoother and sweeter, but still with the bite needed to not sound silky or soft.

I also noticed a crisper and tighter "impact" to snare drums and percussion.  Where it seemed to me that this area was at one time a little "recessed" (I thought because the ribbons handled that area and could not move the air with enough force and magnitude) it was now highly energized and powerful.

High impact snare and rimshots could now be "felt" they had so much impact.

Male and Female voices, also improved.  Norah Jones, Diana Krall, James Taylor and even Mick Jagger all took a step back and didn't sound so over miked even though many times they are.

Center fill was locked as always but now more detailed than ever and with more "I'm right here in front of you'ness" (how do you like that term :lol: )

One of the most dramatic improvements was in the area of Bass.

Deeper, Dryer, Tighter and Cleaner.  It now sounds like I thought it should.  I, many times, thought the subdued bass was totally due to having the speakers well out into the room. (almost 7 feet to the front of the speaker)

Well it was not.  I recently came across a cut that I will be placing on my "Reference Cuts for VMPS" that is a BASS Guitar Solo like you can't believe, and this cut showed me that the VMPS Speakers DO have the Bass area sown up.

Now many of you have already ordered your Floor standing VMPS without the toggle and this has been going on for sometime, but those of you who have not done so might find this tweak of interest.

If you are already bi-amping or bi-wiring you are probably already enjoying the benefits.  I found that it works equally as well as bi-wiring, unless you are using a specially for bass cable and a specially for mid/tweets cable.

I also found that I liked it better if I went into the top (woofer) binding posts with the cable from the amp rather than going into the lower (mid/highs) posts.  This is because I wanted to maximize current to the woofers.

If this happens or not I don't know.

So all you need to do is prepare a set of jumper cables that will fit between the two sets of binding posts.  I have tried both spades and bananas and prefer bananas for this purpose.

I wanted a spade connection coming directly from the amps for the best and greatest contact area.  So I make my jumpers with bananas , which also allowed me to A-B the tweak easily by pulling the bananas and flipping the toggle.

And by the way, if you have the toggle you should flip the toggle about 15-20 times every couple months to keep the contacts wiped clean.

Anyhow, if any of you try this let me know of your result (if any) and if you found any other methods that might add to the tweak.

Boy do I love these speakers :mrgreen:

Brian Cheney

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2080
    • http://www.vmpsaudio.com
parts
« Reply #5 on: 13 May 2003, 03:17 pm »
Few commercial speakers use potentiometers any more. Instead, resistors are employed to fix mid and treble levels relative to the bass, and their values are determined by what sounds best in the company listening room, or the designer's preferences.

Since bass response varies widely with placement, room geometry, associated components, series R of speaker wire, and many other factors there cannot be a single correct setting for mid/treble levels.  Potentiometers allow the user to make very small adjustments (0.1 dB).  I find myself making slight retunings of the level controls on my speakers every few months, as they age and continue to break in.

The FST upgrade (7kHz crossover) greatly improves the bass response of all our speakers.

Jim

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 4
Re: parts
« Reply #6 on: 13 May 2003, 04:46 pm »
Hi Brian,

How much work is involved to change out the tweeters in the RM40's (Without the precut panel) to the new FST's? Also, I have the TRT upgrade, so how is that effected?

Thanks in advance,

Jim

John Casler

The VMPS "TWEAK"
« Reply #7 on: 13 May 2003, 07:46 pm »
Quote
So, I take it that by doing this you are bypassing the switch contacts for a single-amp connection? And, if you biamp, you will be taking the switch totally out of the circuit? Is this correct?


***Hi Q,

That's how I see it but Brian could offer the exact "cleanliness" of the circuitry with this tweak.

Quote
I wonder if this is the reason I was not totally happy with the bass during my previous auditions??


Certainly a possibility.

F-100

Wow!!
« Reply #8 on: 14 May 2003, 01:59 am »
Wow!!!

F-100

I'm a believer
« Reply #9 on: 14 May 2003, 02:04 am »
John,
  I've a pair of VMPS Super Tower/R Special Edition, bought it second hand and it's about 4 years old. Before the tweak, I thought that they sound nice but nothing out of the extraordinary except for the huge bass. When I first read about your tweak,  I thought to myself "Damn, this guy must be smokin some good sh*t that is floating around in the hood" :-). But after after doing the tweak that you had suggested, Wow!! Wow!! Wow!!!  They sound so wonderfulllllllll. The speaker sound much more revealing with more detail than before the tweak. I don't have all the audiophile vocabulary in me yet so I can't really describe the actual sound. But even my wife who is not into this crazy and expensive audio hobby, also noticed the big difference. This is actually her quote "Wow!! Sound like Diana Krall is in this room" :-) :-)

Thanks so much for telling us about the tweak. Back to listen to my newly upgraded speaker now :-)

John Casler

The VMPS "TWEAK"
« Reply #10 on: 14 May 2003, 03:02 am »
Quote
But after after doing the tweak that you had suggested, Wow!! Wow!! Wow!!! They sound so wonderfulllllllll.


Glad you liked it.

Now you have to tell "me" something.  I've lived in Los Angeles since 1979.  I've heard of East LA. and West LA, but never North LA. :o

Now aside from the obvious compass directive, where, is North LA? :?

shokunin

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 503
The VMPS "TWEAK"
« Reply #11 on: 14 May 2003, 04:43 am »
Hmm.. north LA, must be between the SFV and the SGV, like uh.. Burbank?

Q

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 98
Re: parts
« Reply #12 on: 14 May 2003, 02:13 pm »
Quote from: Brian Cheney
Few commercial speakers use potentiometers any more. Instead, resistors are employed to fix mid and treble levels relative to the bass, and their values are determined by what sounds best in the company listening room, or the designer's preferences.

Since bass response varies widely with placement, room geometry, associated components, series R of speaker wire, and many other factors there cannot be a single correct setting for mid/treble levels.  Potentiometers allow the user to make very small adjustments (0.1 dB).  I find myself making slight retunings of the level controls on my speakers every few months, as they age and continue to break in.

The FST upgrade (7kHz crossover) greatly improves the bass response of all our speakers.


Thanks Brian.
Yes, Im sure that fine tuning is a welcome thing to the audiophile (it is to me).  And im sure that  temperature, humidity, altitude, barometric pressure, etc. all affect air density, and the physical characteristics of the entire system of any speaker to some degree.  And time will affect the speaker as well.  So it does make sense to be able to fine tune.  AND, I know that a good Pot is not a cheap part to come by.  (It wont be long before you talk me into a pair of RM40s!)

Im wondering HOW the FST upgrade can improve the bass response, since that is all about the 7kz and above freq range?
Thanks
Q

F-100

North of LA
« Reply #13 on: 14 May 2003, 03:17 pm »
Hi John,
  North of LA is the Valancia, Santa Clarita, and Saugus area. Another word, it's anything north of San Fernando :-)

More update on the tweak,  I couldn't believe that this basic tweak can change the sound so much.  Everything is improved, even the bass sound nice and tight now.

Brian Cheney

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2080
    • http://www.vmpsaudio.com
bass
« Reply #14 on: 5 Aug 2005, 07:00 am »
Bass overtones are very energetic and the tweeter handles quite a few of them.  A more accurate tweeter results in better bass quality.  This is the reason I have abandoned moving coil tweeters in our top designs.

Wayne1

The VMPS "TWEAK"
« Reply #15 on: 15 May 2003, 12:05 am »

John Casler

The VMPS "TWEAK"
« Reply #16 on: 15 May 2003, 01:17 am »
Can't wait for Tyson's review/report :D

warnerwh

The VMPS "TWEAK"
« Reply #17 on: 15 May 2003, 07:38 pm »
Earlier statement of WoW is right on the mark. Put in some DH labs jumpers I just had a guy make up for me and am amazed at the difference in the mid through highs. Very obvious improvement. For 30 bucks it's a true bargain. Anybody curious about trying this don't hesitate. Jumpers are cheap especially compared to the improvement. Easily as much as a much better piece of electronics, probably more. My speakers are Supertower/R SE's which probably aren't as resolving as the newer ribbons. Much more realistic and smoother.  Would someone please explain what changes cause the improvements? Thanks

Q

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 98
The VMPS "TWEAK"
« Reply #18 on: 16 May 2003, 11:31 am »
Quote from: warnerwh
Earlier statement of WoW is right on the mark. Put in some DH labs jumpers I just had a guy make up for me and am amazed at the difference in the mid through highs. Very obvious improvement. For 30 bucks it's a true bargain. Anybody curious about trying this don't hesitate. Jumpers are cheap especially compared to the improvement. Easily as much as a much better piece of electronics, probably more. My speakers are Supertower/R SE's which probably aren't as resolving as the newer ribbons. Much more realistic and smoother.  Would someone please explain what changes cause the improvements? Thanks


Even tho I don't yet own a pair of VMPSs, It appears that this mod is simply bypassing the switch contacts.  Switch contacts can add resistance, and noise (through vibration).  And, that resistance can change as the wiper moves across the contact (which is why you can sometimes hear a crackling sound on older radios, tvs, etc as you move a switch slightly).  This means that the resistance value can change over time and every time you toggle the switch.  Replacing the switch contacts with a good set of low impedance cables makes sense.  I would add, however,  that for this short of a run of cable, the benefits realized by using exotic cables is extremely small (sorry if that puts a wrench in someone's gears).  Just make sure you have excellent electrical contact at the connectors. (I WOULD recommend the elastomer sandwich spades that keep pressure on the binding posts).

warnerwh

The VMPS "TWEAK"
« Reply #19 on: 16 May 2003, 10:49 pm »
Q, thank you for your information.  Certainly is an obvious improvement. Will ask to see why they aren't shipped with jumpers so we all know.