Just a head's up: RCA 5692 red base 6SN7's are awesome

Big Red Machine · « **on:** 23 Oct 2013, 01:53 am »

I have been on a tear trying every 6SN7 I can afford in my Dude. Ted mentioned the round plate black glass Tungsols after I was waiting delivery of these. On a whim I did not know if these would even be musical but 15 minutes in and the clarity and detail is amazing. I'll still track down the black glass but I am very happy with these red base tubes. Not cheap but wow.

I have about 6 or 7 pairs I have categorized as winners or losers so far and there are plenty of losers, let me tell you in my rig.

Just passing this on in case you were tube curious.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 02:04 am »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 23 Oct 2013, 01:53 am

I have been on a tear trying every 6SN7 I can afford in my Dude. Ted mentioned the round plate black glass Tungsols after I was waiting delivery of these. On a whim I did not know if these would even be musical but 15 minutes in and the clarity and detail is amazing. I'll still track down the black glass but I am very happy with these red base tubes. Not cheap but wow.

I have about 6 or 7 pairs I have categorized as winners or losers so far and there are plenty of losers, let me tell you in my rig.

Just passing this on in case you were tube curious.

Hi Big Red Machine and all Audio Circle members.
I am the tube curious type, especially these days.
Which one are the good ones?

Guy 13

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 02:18 am »

Totally system dependent I would guess Guy. What does not work for me may be right for you.

I have this weird combo pair of GTA's - Sylvania & Zenith that are excellent.

I don't like GTB's but you may.

The Black Treasure CV181-Z pair are smooth but too "soft" for me.

I have a nice adequate pair of Tungsol T plates but the GTA's are more detailed.

I have a very hot pair of Russian 6H8C's with what looks a T plate configuration. They are the brightest pair of tubes in this family that I own.

Unfortunately you have to try in your setup to know for sure. I prefer more detail than softness and my speakers can handle the detail without issues. I find the biggest difficulty is getting proper bass with tubes in the preamp. So I will take an enhanced midrange first and then continue to listen and evaluate.

An expensive buy and try process for sure.

carusoracer · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 02:27 am »

BRM,

I've tried my share of a few over the summer:
Create Synergy
Shuguang Black Treasure
Tungol GTB
RCA Red Base
Sylvania GTB
Ken Rad

I settled in with a nice 45'Sylvania JAN CHS short bottle. The best at everything, no but very well rounded with a superb soundstage

Does not do anything it shouldn't and no shortcomings. Just plays music.
Good luck in your search

Jon L · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 02:44 am »

IME RCA 5692 red base is one of those tubes that is very dependent on the circuit it's used in. Considering its recent going price, one should try before buying if possible. I know, it's difficult to try these things..

If 5692 works well in a given circuit, I would normally also recommend trying the CBS-Hytron 5692, which I personally prefer over RCA 5692, but CBS price has also skyrocketted in this crazy world of 6SN7/5692

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 02:22 pm »

Thanks for the suggestions. I scored a pair of both the CBS and short bottles.

Berto · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 02:41 pm »

I've tried my share and love the Blk Glass Ken-Rads in my Dude. Use a CBS Hyton for the PSU.

jbtrio · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 02:47 pm »

I have just about all the top 6sn7's in my stash. Yeah, there is no universally best tube. Which works best in my preamp might not work in yours.

BRM, try and find some Sylvania 1952 bad boys one of my favorites. If you are a bass head the KenRad staggered plates are nice. The Brimar black glass are very good.

Have fun,
Joe

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 03:22 pm »

Very insightful description from Ebay's sushifanatic seller on what a real Bad Boy is:

"Please note that a many people are listing Sylvania "Bad Boy" tubes which, in fact, are not true Bad Boys, and are worth considerably less, and sound extremely different. All Sylvania Bad Boy tubes are:

1. Made by Sylvania, although they can be relabeled / rebranded by a number of other companies, like RCA, Philco, Westinghouse, etc.
2. Are made between very late 1951 and very early 1953. (This tube has a date code of 152, representing the 52nd week of 1951.) The first digit of the date code represents the year, and needs to start with a 1, 2, or 3. The 1, 2, or 3 may be underlined. If it was made in 1950 it is NOT a Bad Boy.
3. Have a BOTTOM foil getter. Flashing can extend up to 1/3 of the way up the tube, from the bottom. If it has a chrome top, it is NOT a Bad Boy type tube. Bad Boys ALL have clear glass on top.
4. The TOP mica is rectangular, with 3 spikes on each of the shorter edges. These three spikes look like small triangular edges bent down on each side. If there are no spikes, it is not a Bad Boy.
5. The BOTTOM mica is rectangular
6. Have opposing black T-plates
7. Has a black base
8. Has copper grid posts
9. Have three rivet holes (like the one I am selling.) There is debate on this issue, but on another website, someone disassembled the two and three hole tubes to document the internal differences.
10. Are ONLY a 6SN7GT tube type. Not a 6SN7GTA or 6SN7GTB.
11. Are NOT labeled VT231, which looks very similar, but were made earlier. (Still great tubes, but lack the bass of the Bad Boy types.) However, military tubes marked JAN-CHS-6SN7GT CAN be real Bad Boys.

For reference, here is a picture of a real Bad Boy (left) vs. a NON-Bad Boy:

Note: Number of holes in plate, lack of spikes on top mica. The difference is in the details."

borism · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 03:55 pm »

Agree with what has been stated before that different tubes may be best for different gear. In my Atma-Sphere MP-3 I have found black glass Brimars, black glass, staggered plates Ken-Rads and Psvane CV-181 all to be excellent. The Russian Meltz 6H8C was a little bright.

jbtrio · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 04:30 pm »

Real bad boys have 3 holes in their plates and have a bottom getter. Sorry, should have given you more details. They are great with female vocals and have a beautiful midrange. They can be a little forward sounding, but tonal balance is great.

Joe

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 04:50 pm »

Quote from: jbtrio on 23 Oct 2013, 04:30 pm

Real bad boys have 3 holes in their plates and have a bottom getter. Sorry, should have given you more details. They are great with female vocals and have a beautiful midrange. They can be a little forward sounding, but tonal balance is great.

Joe

Knowing tubes has got to be something you can earn a Bachelors degree in! There is so much to know and I am a neophyte - bottom getters, side plates, chrome domes, etc. And what makes a tube "sound" good is something I am not sure is easy to quantify.

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 05:06 pm »

FWIW I use the RCA red base 5691 ( 6SL7 ) in my Manley NeoClassic 300B pre - also awesome. Best I've found and lightyears ahead of the current-production tubes I've tried in that application.

D.D.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 05:26 pm »

Seems hard to find a bad 6SN7... they're all pretty good in my system. The 5692 does seem to have less noise due to its rugged construction.

Syrah · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 05:43 pm »

I've done my share of rolling in my Supratek pre, and I like Sophias. More neutral with a bit more detail than the Black Treasures.

Jon L · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 08:00 pm »

Quote from: jbtrio on 23 Oct 2013, 02:47 pm

BRM, try and find some Sylvania 1952 bad boys one of my favorites.

All this 6SN7 talk is giving me flashbacks of my 6SN7-addict days. But yup, Sylv 1952 Bad Boys were one of my favorites; it was better balanced and synergized with more circuits than some of the Divas, e.g. Sylvania metal base, Tung Sol round plates, RCA grey glass, etc.

If Bad boys are tough to find, another underdog that is also pretty neutral and well-rounded is CBS/Hytron 6SN7. Then, there's my sweetheart National Union Grey Glass, as special a midrange as one can find, warts and all..

jhm731 · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 08:20 pm »

Brent Jessee's 6SN7 page:

http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm

His video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trzsvo_erx4#t=27

shadowlight · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Oct 2013, 08:21 pm »

Quote from: Jon L on 23 Oct 2013, 08:00 pm

All this 6SN7 talk is giving me flashbacks of my 6SN7-addict days. But yup, Sylv 1952 Bad Boys were one of my favorites; it was better balanced and synergized with more circuits than some of the Divas, e.g. Sylvania metal base, Tung Sol round plates, RCA grey glass, etc.

If Bad boys are tough to find, another underdog that is also pretty neutral and well-rounded is CBS/Hytron 6SN7. Then, there's my sweetheart National Union Grey Glass, as special a midrange as one can find, warts and all..

Has anyone tried 7N7 with adapter in place of 6sn7? If yes, which ones were better than others as replacements for 6sn7

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Oct 2013, 01:12 am »

Have I mentioned how awesome these tubes are? I am hearing new things and details even off to my sides at 90 degrees off the diffusers. This is wild baby!!!

shawbros3 · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Oct 2013, 05:03 am »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 24 Oct 2013, 01:12 am

Have I mentioned how awesome these tubes are? I am hearing new things and details even off to my sides at 90 degrees off the diffusers. This is wild baby!!!

BRM,

I am also a big fan of the RCA Reds. Resolution is top notch and the mid-range is full and accurate. They are super quiet compared to all other 6SN7's I have tried in my Melody preamp. With that said, I recently borrowed some Tung-Sol Ovals and really like what I'm hearing. The Tung-Sols have an emotional pull to them and makes voices sound more human and real, at least in my system. They aren't as detailed or transparent as the Reds, but I like them more overall. But they are very microphonic just like Kenrads and the RCA Greys I've tried.

But I think it all boils down to personal preference. I know of one person that didn't prefer the Reds in the same preamp and felt the Kenrads sounded more balanced. He also runs Raytheon 6SN7's in his Lamp DAC and really likes the combination.

It appears the Reds have left a great impression on you so far, that's awesome. The RCA Greys are pretty similar sounding to the Reds and only half the cost. If you can get your hands on some Tung Sol Ovals, they are worth a shot IMO...