[Maritan]

So, a while ago, I posted a topic asking for recommendations for a tube amplifier gutsy enough to drive a pair of Magnepan MMGs and eventually a pair of Magnepan 1.7s that I would upgrade to. After much discussion in that topic, a lot of searching and researching and definitely with great, insightful and helpful input from SteveFord, I landed an older VTL ST-150 for a fair price.

Well, after a few shipping delays, I got the amp delivered to my doorstep yesterday. I was so excited, but when I heard things rattling inside the box and I knew that wasn't a good sign. Opened the box and took the foam/ bag/ amp combo out and I saw this:



Great. Broken tubes. The seller didn't take the tubes out of the sockets and wrap them individually for shipment. See more pictures:





















Ugh. Now I have to hope the seller will respond to my email regarding this disaster. I probably will have to file a claim with FedEx - and if I do, their policy states that they have to take the packaging and the contents back with them for inspection. Which means, I'll be without the damn amp for a while as FedEx does what it has to (which I'm sure isn't going to be quick and efficient...  )

/Rant off.

However, on the whole, I'm very excited to see how these sound when I eventually can get these going. 

[underdawg]

shipping is rough these days. good luck with fedex, they will keep the amp if they pay the claim nowadays sometimes. I have them pay for repairs, and other times just opay the claim and take the equipment. I double box or tripple box but buyers lately hate paying for the extra packing.

[Don_S]

Good luck with FedEx.  They are notoriously poor about paying. In this situation I believe they would be right to deny the claim. It would certainly be hard for you to dispute it. The title you used on this thread and the description and pictures all inidcate that you acknowledge that packing was inadequate.  You have the right to remain silent............

Is insurance with a third party, not FedEx? Not that it matters but I am curious if anyone knows. Doesn't the shipper have to file the claim? Should any claim be for less than the insured amount? Otherwise the insurer might pay the full amount and demand surrender of the item. Asking questions, not making factual statements.

You have my sympathy. The seller messed up big time and the damage repair should be on him. You trusted him and he let you down. Good luck.

[FullRangeMan]

Awful scenario, a partial refund from the seller may be applicable.
I can not blame fedex this time.

[thunderbrick]

Please show us a photo of the "foam" packing material.  Sounds to me like the seller did a poor packing job.  Broken tubes (what a dumbass!) likely only comes from a forklift blade through the box or the amp moving inside the box.  That's a big no-no!

And while it's hard to tell from the photo, the cardboard box doesn't look very robust.   

[SteveFord]

Boy, that's ugly.
If you used PayPal or a credit card, contact them as well.
Hopefully you can get it squared away with the shipper but if not, cover your bases.

[WireNut]

Awe dude what a bummer. I would never ship anything tubed without removing them from the sockets. 
When I bought my preamp I asked the seller to please remove all tubes and ship separately.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Yea, that sucks. Beyond the tubes, is there any damage to the amp itself?
How much would it cost to replace the tubes?

[Ericus Rex]

Fedex will deny the claim, as they should.  The seller should refund partial payment to cover the tubes.  This assumes that the only damage is the broken tubes.  If you paid with paypal you can file a claim if the seller disappears.  Good luck!

[Freo-1]

Fed Ex did pay a claim for a Sony ES receiver I sold a few years ago, ONLY because it was shipped in the original packing.  Having said that, I think Ericus Rex is right. 
 
Good Luck!  Let us know how you make out with this.

[Bob in St. Louis]

I think Ericus Rex is right. 

Me too.

[underdawg]

me too

[Elizabeth]

To leave tubes in place one needs to put a foam inside the tube area to keep them in place.
I shipped an ARC SP-10 with all the tubes in place, took off the tops and placed a foam block with slits to slide the tubes in. Then put the covers back on. (with a note to remove the foam before plugging in..)
Worked perfect.
No company is going to pay for broken tubes left in their sockets with no padding to keep them in place.
The SELLER is the person who neeeds to pay for the damaged tubes.

[ltr317]

Sorry to hear this.  As Eric said, responsibility in this case is with the seller.  I've sold lots of tube equipment and hundreds of tubes through the years; haven't had one tube or component damaged.  Proper packing is the key as others have stated. 

[WireNut]

Awe dude what a bummer. I would never ship anything tubed without removing them from the sockets. 
When I bought my preamp I asked the seller to please remove all tubes and ship separately.

I'm sorry, but it's your fault and the seller's fault IMO. You should have told the seller to remove the tubes and the seller if he/she really cared at all about shipping the unit to you safety he/she would have removed the tubes them self. You both made a mistake when it came to discussing shipment of the the unit. Hard to tell who will surfer the consequences now but must likely you will. All the best to you. I fell your pain

I just received a SS amp from a seller on Agon and he was nice enough to put on the box, "Delicate electronic component, Fragile".

[Elizabeth]

I'm sorry, but it's your fault and the seller's fault IMO. You should have told the seller to remove the tubes and the seller if he/she really cared at all about shipping the unit to you safety he/she would have removed the tubes them self. You both made a mistake when it came to discussing shipment of the the unit. Hard to tell who will surfer the consequences now but must likely you will. All the best to you. I fell your pain

I just received a SS amp from a seller on Agon and he was nice enough to put on the box, "Delicate electronic component, Fragile".

Sorry, no way is the buyer at fault for failing to TELL the seller how to pack the item.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Sorry, no way is the buyer at fault for failing to TELL the seller how to pack the item.

Agreed.

Funny sidenote: I have an old Arcam box that has a big label printed on the side of the box that says:
CONTENTS FRAGILE -- USELESS IF DROPPED 

[thunderbrick]

Sorry, no way is the buyer at fault for failing to TELL the seller how to pack the item.

Agreed.  It is the seller's responsibility to ensure safe delivery of an item.  An owner of heavy, expensive, esoteric equipment MUST know that condition in this hobby is everything and he has an obligation to make sure the item is packed in a way that it will arrive at buyer's location in the condition described PRIOR to shipping.

Short of a disastrous incident with the shipper, it's 100% on the seller.  And pack-and-ship stores are a joke for items like audio gear.

[underdawg]

Now wait a min. Seriously you think it resides on seller? I hope I never sell to you that thinks that. I have over 1600 sales on ebay and audiogon. I have surpassed 100,000.00 in sales through paypal, and guess what. Paypal  and ebay are on my side as a preferred seller and buyer. Sellers cannot be resposible at all for shipping unless they deliver it, thats what insurance is for, sad to say shippers do not honor their responsibility. To be honest I should be able to put an item in box period and should arrive safe like in the 1990's. Management at shipping companies has been dismall , managers lacjk of pride and only watching numbers has led to this trend. Nonetheless I tripple box most items, but buyers should pay for that IMO. Sorry to rant but bnuyers are rediculous. I buy all the time off ebay, I dont tell my sellers how to pack, Ill I state is make sure its insured, and if it dont make it be ready.
You guys need to rethink who is ultimately responsible. The other thing that cracks me up is those that complain sellers will not ship, goi figure, here you see a perfect example. You know what yuou really want drive and get it, otherwise you should be more understanding. Just my 2 cents.

[Maritan]

Thunderbrick asked to look at the foam and the cardboard box that was used for the shipping. The seller used original packaging materials and they arrived in good condition (no forklift damage). Here's a picture of terrible quality:



As far as assigning fault: I will take (a very minute) part of the blame for not asking the seller to pack the tubes individually for shipment. If the seller makes an effort to pack everything safely and the carrier still managed to destroy things, then obviously the seller is not at fault. In this case it was a lack of know-how/ common sense (read on).

This was my first tube anything purchase. In all my research of tube equipment, I constantly came across adverts that mentioned that the tubes would be packed individually for shipment. By the time I stumbled upon this particular amp that I bought, that facet of shipping tube equipment was so entrenched in my mind that packing tubes individually seemed like something anybody would automatically do. My fault for assuming common sense was common.

All that said, I have contacted the seller, and he has responded. Unfortunately, this was his first time shipping tubed equipment and he didn't realize what he needed to do. But, he has responded, and he does seem like he'll work with me to rectify the issue.

From now on, when I buy more tube equipment I will be sure to remind the seller to pack the tubes separately.