RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.

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funkymas

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Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #120 on: 19 Oct 2011, 02:35 pm »
RMAF 2011...
 What a blast. Met a bunch of great people. Ran into a lot of people from last year. It was tough work, but we got the job done. Another year has come and gone, and we look forward for RMAF 2012.  :D

 I would like to say thanks on behalf of myself, Roger and the YG Team to Pez and Tyson. You guys are amazing on taking the challenge and covering the show. Thanks for the great time at Shanahan's.

Marco

Hugh

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Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #121 on: 19 Oct 2011, 03:30 pm »
Chris,

It's really good to have finally met YOU, Jeff, & other ACers.

Thanks again for the cds.  They are exceptional.
Yes....it's been there since it began in 2004....and future dates are booked there as well....for 2012-2013-2014-2015.

Pez

Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #122 on: 19 Oct 2011, 03:34 pm »
RMAF 2011...
 What a blast. Met a bunch of great people. Ran into a lot of people from last year. It was tough work, but we got the job done. Another year has come and gone, and we look forward for RMAF 2012.  :D

 I would like to say thanks on behalf of myself, Roger and the YG Team to Pez and Tyson. You guys are amazing on taking the challenge and covering the show. Thanks for the great time at Shanahan's.

Marco

Marco, We had an absolute blast at Shanahan's. Great conversation great people great food. That's what RMAF is all about.  :thumb: Oh also great gear.  :duh: :lol:

audioengr

Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #123 on: 19 Oct 2011, 04:23 pm »
Is there a reason PRICE is not mentioned in association with a room. I can relate to the pursuit of audio perfection. Realty is-  at what cost ?

Depends on the room. We had a handout that described the system with individual costs for speakers, acoustic treatments, cables etc.. as well as the total retail price, which was $77K

Steve N.
Emporical Audio

audioengr

Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #124 on: 19 Oct 2011, 04:41 pm »

8.  There's not enough hot show babes.  Really, if we want to be taken seriously at a national level, we need a lot more hot show babes, preferably asian.

I suppose I could get my wife a kimono.....  How about bringing a big poster of a foxy asian woman? :o

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Rick Craig

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Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #125 on: 19 Oct 2011, 04:53 pm »
Room treatments - some of the products used at the show for low frequency issues do nothing to improve the room.

audioengr

Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #126 on: 19 Oct 2011, 05:07 pm »
Room treatments - some of the products used at the show for low frequency issues do nothing to improve the room.

Agreed.  I think the only way to effectively deal with LF room resonances is placement of speakers and EQ.  We used some Amarra EQ.  Along with ipad audio analyzer and a calibrated mic, this is the best way I think.

We did however have some corner traps to tame the bass if the speakers are too close to the corners.  This does help.  They do nothing for room resonances.

Steve N.
« Last Edit: 19 Oct 2011, 07:29 pm by audioengr »

jtwrace

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Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #127 on: 19 Oct 2011, 05:15 pm »
Room treatments - some of the products used at the show for low frequency issues do nothing to improve the room.

Why do you say that?

Rick Craig

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Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #128 on: 19 Oct 2011, 05:26 pm »
Why do you say that?

I should have been more specific - passive "traps". The science of what works makes it easy to spot one that won't help the room.

vinyl_lady

Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #129 on: 19 Oct 2011, 07:29 pm »
I don't go to RMAF just for the sound because I know hotel rooms are not the best venue, even brick and mortar shops have a hard time getting the best out of equipment. I go for the personal interactions both with AC members and the manufacturers and to have a good time...and AC members sure know how to have a good time!

Pez and Tyson are amazing dudes.

Wayne

+100 on this. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Laura

bpape

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Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #130 on: 19 Oct 2011, 07:45 pm »
What passive absorbers do in terms of frequency response depends on what frequencies are in question  (no - it's impractical to try to address 30Hz with any passive absorber whose thickness isn't measured in feet), and also where in the room they are placed. If problems are caused by cancellations off the rear wall or boundary interactions behind speakers close to a wall, you can treat every corner in the room and you're not going to fix the problem.  Corners are efficient, not a be-all, end-all solution.

All of that said, dealing with the time domain, passive absorbers can certainly provide a huge benefit.  By controlling how quickly bass energy decays in the room, you limit how much is can mask harmonic textures, imaging cues, low level information in general, etc.

My process is always:

Set up the seat in a good place for bass response.
Set up the speakers for smoothest response and good imaging at the listening seat
Address the room reflections, bass boost/cancellations the best you can with treatment.
Address the decay time in the room to bring it to the appropriate level given the room volume and usage.

THEN add EQ if required to tailor to your personal preference. 

Under show conditions with limited time, multiple seats, far from ideal symmetry and trimmings, a few small EQ adjustments can be invaluable, but are not a replacement for treatments as EQ will not address the decay time issue at all.  In fact, if a band of EQ is not exactly at the same center frequency and Q, it can actually create more ringing earlier on in the decay cycle.

The one drawback of displaying at the show is the lack of time to spend time with people you'd like to see, walking the halls to have more than 5 minutes at a time to listen, etc.

Bryan

ted_b

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Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #131 on: 19 Oct 2011, 08:14 pm »
First, let me say that I really enjoyed Pez (and Tyson's) incredible coverage of this years RMAF.  And  I was there!  I would check their posts each night to see if I missed anything great (and boy did I miss rooms!  My goal was 50% and I missed it by 50%!; i.e I probably really "listened" in 25% of the rooms...no one can do over 50% in my opinion). 

AI also want to state that I agree 101% with pez's final comments about room treatment needs, snobbery and the overall surprises that some of these vendors use as excuses.  Like they weren't aware of poor ac, bad room acoustics and the need for break-in??  All that being said, this year was as good an RMAF as I've attended (this was my 5th).

My favorite things:
* spending time with AC members.  It was a pleasure seeing Joe and Bill (Purity) and spending time in their very friendly and accommodating room (more below).  It was a pleasure spending Friday evening with Wayne (WGH).  Rob (questfortone) and I had dinner and a beer with him at the Marriott, then went over to the bar/pub across from our hotel to take in the local music and local bar scene (very crowded and happenin' place).  I think Wayne took a pic and posted elsewhere.  They claim I got hit upon but I think she just wanted me to buy a beer while I was at the bar!   8)  Oh, and it was my 33rd wedding anniversary so that would have been an instantly-go-to-hell pass for me.   :o  It was also cool to meet up with Rim (Woodsyi) and spend time Sunday seeing a few rooms and ending up in Pure Music's after hours party, comparing DSD and PCM, and learning about great opera!  :)

* spending time with creative vendors and manufacturers.  Add to the Joe and Bill room above, I also loved spending time with Rob (Channel D, Pure Music) and wife in Room 411.  Their after hours aprty was a lot of fun, and very enlightening for me (DSD, vinyl rips, etc).  Also, meeting Michal Jurewicz from Mytek (DSD/PCM DAC) and his whole team.   It was great that they gave this new-to-audiophiledom-but-pro-audio-veteran a seat at the HiRez seminar on Saturday afternoon.  Also, stopping by to say hi to favorites like Chris Connaker (Computer Audiophile), Dan Wright (Modwright), Wayne (Bolder), Bruce Brown (Puget Sound), Darren (AMR), Jonathan (Playback Design), Michael Garner (Tweekgeek), etc etc.   Finally got a chance to meet Albert von Schweikert, Walter Liederman (Underwood, Emerald Physics), Clayton Shaw (ex-Emerald, now Spatial), and Dom (Merging Technologies).

*taking the 5 minute walk to the Hyatt to check out the new unreleased (November) SACD of Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here.  Chad's release is both breathtaking and a breath of fresh air, the latter for being $30 to own new James Guthrie 5.1 and 2.0 remasters without having to deal with the complex and over-marketed Immersion or Discovery box sets.  The surround demo was amazing; this is a very aggressive mix with a new ability to peel back all the complexities of the mix spread across five ATC active 150's (and subs, although limited use of LFE channels).

My favorite rooms (in no particular order, kind of):
* TAD's whole system room, with the smaller Compact Ref 1's.  OK, this was my Best Of Show...bu then it always is.  Andrew Jones has his sh$t together!  Period.  Just amazing equipment.  Nuff said.  Can't wait for the "trickle down" floorstanders ($21k) to be unveiled at CES (they were in the TAD room but mocked up).

* Jones Audio amps and new preamp, coupled to the Revel Salon 2's.  Dunno why, but this room seemed somewhat untreated, low light and no real fancy setup....just glorious music that was well imaged and a deep soundstage.  the Jones amps aren't cheap ($25k-ish) but are beautiful to look at, and sound even better.  And I'm not normally a Revel fan.

* Veloce and YG.  I came to this room with a huge bias against YG Acoustics (have heard the big ones before but never understood the market fever...kinda like Magico and Wilson, frankly, to me).  But a friend on CA has the Carmels and swears by them so I gave them another try.  Well, this room produced a very deep soundstage and a really nice overall feel.  I get it now.  These were the Kipod's (some other model suffix, too, but I forget, too many to remember) and were now on my radar.  The battery-powered Veloce equipment was obviously nice, too.  Kudos!

* Estelon and Bricasti.  Wow, gorgeous white speaker towers (I would never choose white until now!) with sensual lines and textures.  They are made from marble dust!  And all ceramic drivers, etc.  Big bucks..but a big deal.  They produced music from the Bricasti DAC that was effortless and deep.

* Rob Robinson's (Channel D, Pure Vinyl, Pure Music) afterhours party in Room 411!  Yes, I can be bought by food, wine, Italian women (Rob's wife is the best), and great music and discussion.  The system was mostly demonstrating how, with a $600 Duet2 AD/DA box one could have an incredible phono setup, whether listening or ripping.  The theory, among others, is that the RIAA curve in digital has huge distortion advantages over doing it in analog, and gains digital headroom (bits and resolution) too.  We also used the brand new dSC DSD-over-USB discovery on the Debussy DAC to compare my DSDIFF files to my PCM conversions (no contest) to Pure Music's on-the-fly DSD-to_PCM conversions.  Net/net, until I get a pure DSD DAC playback solution I will let PM do all the work.  Oh, and Rim educated us on the best of great opera.  Rob and his wife were gracious hosts.

* Joe and Bill's Purity Audio room.  The sound was ok but shrill, IMO, until Sunday afternoon, and then it locked in very very nicely.  The well treated room was clearly ready for great music.  I only wish I has stuck around for a couple of the amp swaps...sounds like good things happened.  And the main reason it is in my list is cuz it was just comfortable being there.  No snobs, no "sorry, can't play your music, too complicated", no shushing (or conversely, incredibly loud conversations in the back).  Just some folks enjoying music and trying to tweak to get more better!

*  Bruce Brown's room up on 8000.  I spent too little time in there but it's clear the Usher Mini Dancers are easily a best-buy of the show.  Bruce was playing great DSD and analog tapes, and all was well in that room.

* the "several inches between my ears" room.  Over at Canjam I was asked by my dear buddy and new father, David Kimmel aka rydenfan (Miles Wayne Kimmel born Sunday, October 17th, 7 lbs!!!...an RMAF baby!!! ) to check out several headphones and amp combos.  I stumbled upon easily my favorite (within budget), the Woo Audio WA6 amp, and a pair of Audeze LCD-2 Ref 2 cans.  Nice!!  Can tube roll and everything.  Very nice.  And congrats to Adrienne, David and the newest Miles Davis fan, Miles Kimmel.
« Last Edit: 19 Oct 2011, 11:41 pm by ted_b »

rbbert

Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #132 on: 19 Oct 2011, 09:32 pm »
SACD of Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here.  Chad's release is both breathtaking and a breath of fresh air, the latter for being $30

Where do you find this?  I think it's $35 + exhorbitant shipping where it will be available at all.

I'm really sorry I missed the Jones Audio / Revel Salon 2 room.  I thought Kevin Voecks' demo of the Studio 2's with ML electronics was very good.

ted_b

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Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #133 on: 19 Oct 2011, 11:40 pm »
SACD of Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here.  Chad's release is both breathtaking and a breath of fresh air, the latter for being $30

Where do you find this?  I think it's $35 + exhorbitant shipping where it will be available at all.

Sorry, $35 instead of $30.  ??  My point was that it's much better than wading through a freaking $150 box set of mostly re-hashed or live material I don't really need to own, plus some lossy Dolby surround material.  You don't think so?

Pez

Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #134 on: 20 Oct 2011, 12:04 am »
Pez and Tyson - thanks for coming in and beating our speakers to death... :lol:

One thing I would suggest is to list your personal systems as a point of reference for those reading your comments. Thanks for acknowledging your biases as well - we all have them whether we admit it or not.

 :oops:

So my 'reference' system (ie MY system) is listed to the left under 'system' it is up to date for the most part. I have added a bit here and there.

dminches

Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #135 on: 20 Oct 2011, 12:58 am »
Does anyone remember the name of the company that had the excellent $999 bookshelf speakers?  They called their room "the cure."  The speakers developed an tremendous amount of base for a small-boxed speaker.

standub

Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #136 on: 20 Oct 2011, 12:59 am »
Does anyone remember the name of the company that had the excellent $999 bookshelf speakers?  They called their room "the cure."  The speakers developed an tremendous amount of base for a small-boxed speaker.

Sjöfn HiFi - The Clue?

dminches

Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #137 on: 20 Oct 2011, 01:00 am »
Yes, that's it.  Thanks.

pansixt

Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #138 on: 20 Oct 2011, 01:40 am »
They also had complimentary shots of good Bourbon and Rolling Rock Beers. 8)


Pez

Re: RMAF 2011 Final thoughts.
« Reply #139 on: 20 Oct 2011, 09:31 pm »
Not to toot our own horns, but I can't help but notice that all the other 'mainstream' websites and magazines are just now getting around to posted RMAF coverage. Old news eh?  8) 8) 8)