[S Clark]

Ahh, youth and energy.  You guys did a fine job of a Herculenian task.  I'm glad I got to meet you and Tyson.

Scott

[Tyson]

OK, here's my final thoughts on the show.  Kickin' it for 3 days with Pez in an audiophool's heaven is one of the highlights of the year for me.  Pez is my best friend too, but I'm not sure how much that counts when you consider that he's my ONLY friend

As for the show, here's my few thoughts, after having been to several of these in a row now.

1.  The playing field is level.  When we walk into a room, there is just as much chance for it to sound good as any other room.  We've had several rooms that sucked one year and kicked @ss the next, and we report it exactly like we hear it (ie, YG, Focal, AMR).  Other rooms go the opposite direction (Dynaudio, Hansen, Merlin).  Others are consistently great (GR Research, Fritz, Daedalus, JH Audio), and others are consistently bad (single driver speakers, OTL's, Nordost).

2.  The show gets BETTER every year.  It's funny, I look back and I see us posting each year "This is the best show EVER!"  Then the next year we say, "No, THIS is the best show EVER."  But it's true, every year the overall quality of the rooms improves, and sometimes dramatically.

3.  People who let you play your own music rock.  People who don't, suck.  How can anyone evaluate your system with music they've never heard before.  I know it's a pain, and lots of (other) people have really questionable taste in music, but it's perhaps one of the few times they will EVER have to hear your gear.  Give it up for 5 minutes!

4.  This one is for the attendees - most of the time you are super cool.  But don't hog the f'ing sweet spot.  Unless you are buying a piece of gear, right now, today, then get the f' out and let other people listen too. 

5.  RMAF is worth attending for the after-hour parties in the manufacturer rooms alone!

6.  This is a hobby of introverts.  Everyone is hyper the first day or 2, and completely zonked by the 3rd, from having to actually interact with other human beings for more than 48 hours at a stretch.

7.  Tool causes schisms.  Over 40, and you clear the room.  Under 40 and you ask "Who was THAT?"

8.  There's not enough hot show babes.  Really, if we want to be taken seriously at a national level, we need a lot more hot show babes, preferably asian.

9.  Room treatment.  Yes you need it.  Yes it's a pain.  No, your room won't be it's best with out it.  Contact Brian Pape on this forum if you can't figure it out yourself and need help.  Even giving out copious amounts of free beer or scotch will not make up for an untreated room. 

10.  Pez is da man!  Seriously, he carries around a heavy ass camera with a giant flash to get you all these killer pics, and an ipad to upload everything in real time.  And he NEVER stops working, the whole show.  And he never complains.  Oh wait, yes he does.  Constantly.  But then I b!tch slap him and he meekly starts uploading more photos. 

SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rclark]

Sure, bring it on.  I would point out that my livelihood does not depend on getting good sound from a system.  If it did, I would Make sure I was good at it.  Scratch that, I'd make sure I was GREAT at it.  And I'd use every tool at my disposal......like room treatments.  And big fat guys standing in the corner.  And hot show babes greeting everyone.

 THIS

[JLM]

Pez and Tyson:

Thanks tons for your efforts, words, images, and humor.

But...

How about more coverage for us audiophile wanta bees (who don't have $10k+ budgets)?

[chester_audio]

#7 made me laugh. What do they do when an old guy like me walks in with a bag of Lps, Pearl Jam, Porcupine Tree, King Crimson.

No body let me play my records, either.    Well, I did get to spin my Hot Dawg, which led to Wayne giving me an excellent Grisman LP. Title escapes me at present. 

One thing I have learned over the years. Success at shows does not necessarily translate into business success.

[Daedalus Audio]

#7 made me laugh. What do they do when an old guy like me walks in with a bag of Lps, Pearl Jam, Porcupine Tree, King Crimson.

No body let me play my records, either.    Well, I did get to spin my Hot Dawg, which led to Wayne giving me an excellent Grisman LP. Title escapes me at present. 

One thing I have learned over the years. Success at shows does not necessarily translate into business success.

if I recall that was "Glide" by Jerry Douglas & Grisman
thanks,
lou

[blutto]

Tom, don't understand how that could be a matter of just breaking in, or even placement for that matter.  I would think that a speaker manufacturer, in particular, would take care that everything upstream of them and their placement would be complimentary on day one.  What am I missing?

..this blossoming of sound on the 3rd day of a show phenomenon is pretty interesting...and trying to work it out may be impossible but here are a few thoughts...

 ...first there is the idea that systems not only need time to warm up, but they also need time find an inner equilibrium...and yes that is for some pretty airy fairy but its not like we haven't all stumbled across variations on this theme at some time in our various stereo adventures...

 ...the second thing is the old saw about the room being responsible for 50% of a system sound....now the room issue is dealt with in two ways...the first is acoustic treatment which can a bit of a two edged sword....on the one hand you can have a treatment that gives back a neutral room that becomes a black background against which a system can be heard against....on the other hand you can have treatments that actually change the room sound to compliment the sound of the system...now that opens up  another can of worms which I won't go into ...as in which is the more honest way of presenting your system at a show...but there in another thing to consider in terms of the impact of room acoustics( and this to do with the passive aspect, the en situ part, of room acoustics )...

 ...we, as humans are blessed with a very sophisticated editorial program that is part of our ear-brain system ( sometimes its truer to understand that hearing is actually done by the brain and not the ear )...this system allows us to pull meaningful information out of noisy backgrounds....sometimes these backgrounds are very complicated and require some acclimatization to correctly edit around...rooms, while seemingly simple are actually quite complex acoustically and when they are the background to critical listening they become bigger issues then what  we usually deal with on a day to day basis in our normal lives...now audio shows are crazy circus environments that are adrenaline charged and that can initially be overwhelming but they can over time become edited into background noise ( and excitement dies down over time which helps a lot ) because as much as anything the listener has now internalized the new sonic environment....and thankfully most shows are presented in rooms that in most cases fairly similar not only in size and shape but also in the construction of their boundary surfaces...hence you now have a known common denominator that you can edit out of the sonic landscape and actually hear the system better...and the longer you are there the better you be able to do successful critical listening ..

 ...sorry about being so long winded and so late with this comment relative to the flow of the thread but I thought I might just throw this babble out there anyway...

 Cheers

 blutto   

[WGH]

I don't go to RMAF just for the sound because I know hotel rooms are not the best venue, even brick and mortar shops have a hard time getting the best out of equipment. I go for the personal interactions both with AC members and the manufacturers and to have a good time...and AC members sure know how to have a good time!

This year I took photos in about 40 rooms that I thought had great sound, I think that is pretty good. Heck, based on personal preferences and priorities someone else could have picked 40 different rooms which would mean over 50% of the rooms had great sound.

I should have given the Estelon Diamond speakers a longer listen.

The Hilton has the best breakfast buffet, get there early to snag a table next to an ethernet jack for fast free internet.

I stayed at the Hyatt this year and tried to check my email late Friday night and they wanted $9.95 for WiFi. WTF? It's not the money it's the principal, a $99 room should have free WiFi. I told the manager at the front desk that because of their corporate greed I'm never staying there again. The Marriott charges something like $12.95 for in-room WiFi. This policy will never change if people don't complain. Join the free WiFi movement!

The Hilton has free in-room WiFi.

Pez and Tyson are amazing dudes.


Wayne

[woofersus]

Good point about the wifi.  It wasn't even provided for exhibitors who paid thousands for their rooms.  It was $12.95 PER DAY!  We got by using my phone as an access point.

In addition to the Hilton, the Hampton where I stayed also had free wifi. (and really excellent service too)

[dminches]

Is the RMAF always at the Marriott?

[Pez]

Wayne you did some great coverage! We appreciate the effort. It's almost ridiculous how many rooms you got to that I never even saw. That just goes to how how enormous this show is. Any way regarding wifi I gave up in using hotel wifi along time ago. Even when it's free it's terrible IME. iPad 3G and iPhone are the only way to travel!

[StereoNut]

Pez & Tyson, Thank you so much for such great coverage. I will not likely make it out for the show anytime soon and so must live vicariously. Your coverage is the best I have ever read. Far better than the magazines. Great photos, too! Amazing!!

+1

[studiotech]

I like this thread.....BUT it is funny to me that a few years ago, I made a very opinionated set of posts after my first RMAF show.  At the time, I touched on several of the same points being discussed here such as bringing your own music and poor set-up and treatment by vendors. I also remember making a funny comment about Asian manufacturers liking to wear suits.  I got about 50/50 btw praise and flack.  Funny that this thread is going a little more smoothly.....in fact I remember getting some from Pez.  Not holding a grudge here, but I'm just making an observation about how the tides have turned.

I think I may move to Denver, build a huge stock pile of room treatment and rent them to the vendors who cannot afford to bring their own.  It would be nice to see a little more consistency from room to room to help make system judgments a little easier.

Also, those stupid little brass bowls need to go!  What a freaking joke these kind of things make this hobby.  I remember asking several vendors back in 2008 about them and they told me that a guy came buy and offered to put them up for free.  If he came to my room and I was a serious company based on solid engineering principles, I would take that thing and shove it where it might actually have an effect.

Thanks for all the info folks.

Greg

[Rick Craig]

Pez and Tyson - thanks for coming in and beating our speakers to death...

Seriously, at times we were at levels exceeding 105db - good thing we didn't get the boot! I guess that's what you get when you hand a listener the remote. 

 One thing about allowing music to be played. From the standpoint of a manufacturer you roll the dice when you have someone play their own music. I have heard both extremely good recordings and some that were awful. The latter can drive others from the room and discourage those looking to enter for listening. We had 40,000+ tracks on our drive so we elected to allow anyone to pick from those (as you guys did) and that worked out pretty well. There were a few recording engineers with their own discs so we did allow them to play their own tracks.

One thing I would suggest is to list your personal systems as a point of reference for those reading your comments. Thanks for acknowledging your biases as well - we all have them whether we admit it or not.

[blutto]

I like this thread.....BUT it is funny to me that a few years ago, I made a very opinionated set of posts after my first RMAF show.  At the time, I touched on several of the same points being discussed here such as bringing your own music and poor set-up and treatment by vendors. I also remember making a funny comment about Asian manufacturers liking to wear suits.  I got about 50/50 btw praise and flack.  Funny that this thread is going a little more smoothly.....in fact I remember getting some from Pez.  Not holding a grudge here, but I'm just making an observation about how the tides have turned.

I think I may move to Denver, build a huge stock pile of room treatment and rent them to the vendors who cannot afford to bring their own.  It would be nice to see a little more consistency from room to room to help make system judgments a little easier.

Also, those stupid little brass bowls need to go!  What a freaking joke these kind of things make this hobby.  I remember asking several vendors back in 2008 about them and they told me that a guy came buy and offered to put them up for free.  If he came to my room and I was a serious company based on solid engineering principles, I would take that thing and shove it where it might actually have an effect.

Thanks for all the info folks.

Greg

... there is one teensie weensie little problem with your comment about those stupid little brass bowls( apart of course from from your threat to do physical harm to someone)...they work, in fact they really, really work well....and no I don't sell them or am associated with them in any way but I have been around several situations where they were installed...pretty spectacular performance results actually...

Cheers

blutto

[lonewolfny42]

Is the RMAF always at the Marriott?

Yes....it's been there since it began in 2004....and future dates are booked there as well....for 2012-2013-2014-2015.

[chester_audio]

Hi Lou,

I hear Daedalus speakers did very well again this year in several room.

I had to go look on the shelf, the LP Wayne gave me last year was Early Dawg. You and Wayne have any more Grisman you want to part with just let me know. 

[saisunil]

Yes....it's been there since it began in 2004....and future dates are booked there as well....for 2012-2013-2014-2015.

Hi Chris - next year also Oct 14-16? Hope not... I have something else going on during the same period ...

[SoCalWJS]

Hi Chris - next year also Oct 14-16? Hope not... I have something else going on during the same period ...

Looks like Oct 12-14, 2012.

http://audiofest.net/2011/index.php

[Pez]

I like this thread.....BUT it is funny to me that a few years ago, I made a very opinionated set of posts after my first RMAF show.  At the time, I touched on several of the same points being discussed here such as bringing your own music and poor set-up and treatment by vendors. I also remember making a funny comment about Asian manufacturers liking to wear suits.  I got about 50/50 btw praise and flack.  Funny that this thread is going a little more smoothly.....in fact I remember getting some from Pez.  Not holding a grudge here, but I'm just making an observation about how the tides have turned.

I think I may move to Denver, build a huge stock pile of room treatment and rent them to the vendors who cannot afford to bring their own.  It would be nice to see a little more consistency from room to room to help make system judgments a little easier.

Also, those stupid little brass bowls need to go!  What a freaking joke these kind of things make this hobby.  I remember asking several vendors back in 2008 about them and they told me that a guy came buy and offered to put them up for free.  If he came to my room and I was a serious company based on solid engineering principles, I would take that thing and shove it where it might actually have an effect.

Thanks for all the info folks.

Greg

I don't remember, but whatever. If you got flak from me perhaps it wasn't what you said, but the way you said it?  Just sayin'

... there is one teensie weensie little problem with your comment about those stupid little brass bowls( apart of course from from your threat to do physical harm to someone)...they work, in fact they really, really work well....and no I don't sell them or am associated with them in any way but I have been around several situations where they were installed...pretty spectacular performance results actually...

Cheers

blutto

Again I personally don't dispute the degree to which these little things do or do not work, but when that's ALL you see in a room like I stated about the little room resonator things in the German Physiks room I cringe. Not because they have no effect, but because any effect they have could not influence the most offensive problems I have stated were with rooms, like boomy bass, glassy sound at higher SPLs and lack of focus in soundstage and imaging. Little 'resonators' or whatever probably have 0 emprically measurable effect. I doubt you could see a 15 dB bass hump at 70 hz be any less. Do you see what I'm saying? It's like having Nordost Odin speaker cables, but having your speakers wired out of phase! Big issues first then small tweaks. To completely ignore a fundamental issue and at the same time address something tweaky to me indicates a lack of understanding.