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I am sorry, I know Chairguy you are very popular here on AudioCircle but I just can't buy that you tried all those mods and you couldn't get good fidelity from your SL-1200 turntable. So I guess that nullifies the thousands of SL-1200 customers that enthus about the stock and modified versions of that TT. There is something wrong in this equasion.
I think that many people believe that different is better, but later find out that different is just different. Once you do a mod, it's hard to restore to original. That is why I am always hesitant to mod a TT. It must be the final solution, to something, un-satisfiying.Wayner
Check out my post above regarding sl1200 sound. It can be really good. Awesome with some rock records. I too just picked up a jvc qly66f, and with the same at440 and not much set up, its like a sl1200 picked up some of that snap and air the project has. ( I'm kind of newby on set up, need to start a thread about that soon, but the technics and jvc are easy to set overhang) It does show the 1200 has a sound characteristic. The chimes at the beginning of time on dark side of the moon's "time" sound slightly brighter in a good way. I'm curious to try one of the cheaper bearing replacements for the 1200 though.
Not to take this one too far afield....but the feet are all important with the JVC QL-Y66F. Like no other table I've ever owned...it responds to feet changes. Because feedback is it's major bug-a-boo...the best equipment support I've found is a 4" think maple cutting board under it. Between the deck and maple are brass toes and Herbies footers. Best combo I've found
My Empire 598 mkIII motor gromments are in perfect condition and there is zero motor noise. It has once again, become my everyday deck. I wonder how many thousands of hours are on her?
Something to think about, eh Gumby? It's the Empires that inspired HW to build the Classic. Despite all the cool ideas, only you know if you have the time and inclination to start a project or deal with a vintage table. Things like shipping damage or missing/broken parts (always possible), can be time consuming and frustrating. Did you buy your KAB already modded by Kevin? Owning the stock 1200 puts you in a good position. You can probably sell it now for more than you paid? I wouldn't doubt it now that it's been discontinued. Maybe when you get the opportunity, or make the opportunity, you'll be able to check out some of the tables you're considering. Nothing is perfect (including the Classic) and I think you need to find out what you like. Some Classic owners aren't crazy about the arm and say only certain carts sound good with it. You could always jump in and buy something. Maybe you'd like the Rega. If you got it and didn't like it, it might be hard to recoup your money selling used. If you put it on a charge card with Needle Dr, you could probably return or exchange. I would suggest asking about this first. Buy it from an reputable dealer and use the card, not paypal. I know ND exchange things, but I don't know all their policies. If you use your card they don't have much choice. You can always cancel the charge. neo
Don't mean to start another debate, but I do find it hard to believe. I remember you mentioned that you bought your Empire in about 1974, that makes those grommet isolators over 30 years old. The rubber may not appear to be dry, hard, or cracked, and they may still appear to be pliable and soft, but the isolating property of them probably have deteriorated quite a bit. The Empire motor does make noise, it's the question of if the noise will get transfered to the tonearm pick up or not. I 've helped a hundred maybe more people all over the world, I mean all over the world, getting rid of that noise and all have positive result.
I'll add too, that I also have a kab 1200, and was curious about how a lighter, rigid plinth belt drive sounds. Picked up a pro-ject xpression2 with a speed box, and at440 cart. The project had a better upper midrange, female harmonics sounded much better I though, floaty and airy sounding. It has a nimble and snappy sound too. I expect the rega's would have a similar sound. Almost thought it was running faster actually until I measured a couple long tracks with a stopwatch. It was near identical to the sl1200, near enough that my margin of error clicking a stop watch is greater, talking 1/10ths of a second. Swapped the at440 over to the 1200, and that showed the differences with the 1200 pretty easily. The sl1200 has more weight and drive, but is a little darker and slugish in some areas, though still not bad. I'm actually selling the pro-ject soon if that says anything.
Technics TTs have a spindle to pivot distance of 215mm. The specs claim 15mm overhang. A Stevenson alignment puts the overhang at 15.886mm, a Baerwald alignment is at 17.817mm, almost 2mm out farther then the alignment tool puts it. I my self have mine all aligned to Lofgren B, which is 18.282mm, for an even better sound. Lowest average distortion, longest arc.Wayner
Audiosoul, It's not a matter of being popular - we all hear differently. What I heard with a fully modded $2500) Technics SL-1200 Mk. II was bettered by every table I brought in here - VPI Classic, JVC Ql-Y66F and QL-F6 and DUAL 701. They all sell/sold for equivalent or much, much less. They all had various upgrades - but nowhere near the upgrades the Technics was subject to. The VPI HW-19 Mk. III was similarly unsatisfactory for similar money frankly...but when the $1000 SDS was added it changed completely. Once so off pitch I couldn't listen to more than 10 minutes of it - with the SDS it was great. That setup bought used with the Origin Live arm is $3500+ and the new VPI Classic is at least it's equivalent and likely better. As doug s. stated earlier...my deck was fairly well beaten. It more than likely could use a new main bearing. I doubt I'd ever invest in one of the $300+ aftermarket main bearings when the Technics ones are $50 to put it on a square playing field. If I ever find time and have the inclination I'll spend another $50 (or whatever, maybe it's $100 now), 30 minutes to install it and see again. But, my last go-round with the fully modded Technics was very underwhelming. In light of $2500, it's a poor sonic value to me. It's a fine DJ deck and feedback rejection is heroic...but it didn't cut it sonically. For under $500 they were once going for bone stock - marvelous value. But, $2000-$2500 in add-ons didn't change it's mid-fi character. For me. If you like yours or others love theirs - good for you all. When I first made the statement 2-3 years ago that I don't care for the modded Technics I caught a raft of shit from Technics owners such as your statement above. Ok - I got my big boy pants on - but a tidal wave of alternative opinions doesn't sway me from the opinion that $2500 is best spent on many other decks both current and past. Sorry I couldn't make your day and recant my vote on the sonics Mind you, I didn't say it's terrible...merely that it doesn't measure up to many other decks for similar or lesser money.If you care to read with an open mind - here's two topics I wrote on the subject at hand: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=48506.0http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50206.0However, if you read it an still bait me with a borderline abusive post in response to my semi-dissatisfied opinion of the SL-1200 Mk. II...I won't likely respond. I've learned on these forums that we all hear differently and everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm not gonna' feed into any underlying anger for bruised ego's that happen from time to time. John