[audioengr]

Aren't there issues with contaminants in fish which limits suggested intake?

Excellent question.  It turns out that the worst contamination is in still water freshwater fish and older growing saltwater fish.  Dr OZ again suggests to limit consumption of Tuna and Halibut.  The best saltwater fish are the tiny ones, like sardines etc..  Coldwater ocean species are best.  I have a sardine every morning and even give one to my dog.  Makes her coat shiny and less skin itching.  My coat is pretty shiny too

Steve N.

[audioengr]

What's the verdict on wine?  Pasta?  I know it's a grain.  Heck, all this time I thought grains were good.  Especially brown rice.

Again Dr. OZ reports that it depends on your body type, but limiting carbs is usually a good thing.  When my wife was gone for 3 months caring for her mother last year, I tried one of OZ diets: 50% low fat meats and 50% veggies, including salmon, cod, skinless chicken and broccoli, cauliflower, spinach, brussles sprouts etc...

After only 2months on this diet, I had a Dr appt where they tested my blood
pressure.  It has been around 110/70 for years.  This time, it was 105/60.  Probable low than when I was in high school.

as for wine, its fine if you have a glass, however they recentky linked it to breast cancer increase, so maybe the ladies should lay off.

Steve N.

[audioengr]

No mention of Coffee yet????????

Dr OZ says its a good antioxidant.  Just dont overdo it.

[audioengr]

My dad is 85 and he eats everything on that list (excepting #2) regularly. He's very active, takes care of my mom, and still drives. Go figure.

Just heard on the news that they have isolated a substance in the blood that can actually slow the aging process significantly.  they showed two mice, one tht had been eatingit andtheother not.  One had aged normally.  the other looked like a teenager still.

here is the intesting thing:  they found the same compound inthe blood af athletes that work out hard.  I think I willcontinue swimming every other day.  Beendng it for 30 years and people always think Im 10 years younger than I am.  Feel good too.

Steve N.

[audioengr]

The aspartame thing is a myth.  I can't handle much sugar and cannot (sanely) drink alcoholic beverages so I drink diet sodas.  Once in a while people make me nervous with all these claims against aspartame and I look it up:

"Aspartame has been approved as safe for the general public - including diabetics, pregnant and nursing women, and children - by more than 90 nations worldwide and by regulatory bodies such as the United Nations' Joint FAO/WHO
Expert Committee on Food Additives (JEFCA) and the American Food and Drug Administration (FDA)."  The list of governmental and non governmental organizations and agencies that have given aspartame the thumbs up goes on and on...

The last people I woud trust is the FDA.  Used tobe aneffective organization, but not now IMO.   researchers have linked numerous poor health effects to diet soda.  It may even be worse than sugered soda, which is probably the cause of  50% of the obesity inthis country.

Steve N.

[geezer]

It probably did, but I don't remember what that age is.  The point is that they weren't dying of what they should have given their diets and modern-food/health thinking.

I asked because I recall reading somewhere that the median life span (of a certain group) of Inuit was around 45, which is very young. Most people who die of heart problems do so later than that.

[Æ]

"Vegetarian -- that's an old Indian word meaning 'lousy hunter.'"
                                                           - Andy Rooney
                               

[django11]

The last people I woud trust is the FDA.  Used tobe aneffective organization, but not now IMO.   researchers have linked numerous poor health effects to diet soda.  It may even be worse than sugered soda, which is probably the cause of  50% of the obesity inthis country.

Steve N.

I'm looking for evidence but all I see is stuff like:  "The safety of aspartame has been studied extensively since its discovery with research that includes animal studies, clinical and epidemiological research, and post-marketing surveillance,[53] with aspartame being one of the most rigorously tested food ingredients to date.[54] Peer-reviewed comprehensive review articles and independent reviews by governmental regulatory bodies have analyzed the published research on the safety of aspartame and have found aspartame is safe for consumption at current levels.[8][53][20][55] Aspartame has been deemed safe for human consumption by over 100 regulatory agencies in their respective countries,[55] including the UK Food Standards Agency,[56] the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA)[57] and Canada's Health Canada.[58]"  (quoted from Wikipedia)

I'm not pushing any agenda here, I just don't see how I can hold another opinion about aspartame in view of the absolutely overwhelming scientific facts. 

[django11]

So I am thinking I'll look up something that is really really bad for you like sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate as per the first posts number 4 entry:  hot dogs.  Those chemicals are present in all cured meats and my spouse has been avoiding buying this stuff when she makes my lunch.

So this is what I come up with on the Wikipedia site:  "Nitrites are a normal part of human diet, found in most vegetables.[1][2][3] Spinach and lettuce can have as high as 2500 mg/kg, curly kale (302.0 mg/kg) and green cauliflower (61.0 mg/kg), to a low of 13 mg/kg for asparagus. Nitrite levels in 34 vegetable samples, including different varieties of cabbage, lettuce, spinach, parsley and turnips ranged between 1.1 and 57 mg/kg, e.g. white cauliflower (3.49 mg/kg) and green cauliflower (1.47 mg/kg).[4][1] Boiling vegetables lowers nitrate but not nitrite.[1] Fresh meat contains 0.4-0.5 mg/kg nitrite and 4–7 mg/kg of nitrate (10–30 mg/kg nitrate in cured meats).[3]"
    Somebody explain why I have to feel guilty when I eat the occasional hot dog?

[xr2]

I'm looking for evidence but all I see is stuff like:  "The safety of aspartame has been studied extensively since its discovery with research that includes animal studies, clinical and epidemiological research, and post-marketing surveillance,[53] with aspartame being one of the most rigorously tested food ingredients to date.[54] Peer-reviewed comprehensive review articles and independent reviews by governmental regulatory bodies have analyzed the published research on the safety of aspartame and have found aspartame is safe for consumption at current levels.[8][53][20][55] Aspartame has been deemed safe for human consumption by over 100 regulatory agencies in their respective countries,[55] including the UK Food Standards Agency,[56] the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA)[57] and Canada's Health Canada.[58]"  (quoted from Wikipedia)

I'm not pushing any agenda here, I just don't see how I can hold another opinion about aspartame in view of the absolutely overwhelming scientific facts.

I have a friend who did a lot of research into this before deciding to drink diet soda and also decided it was safe.  You may be fighting against opinions based on the idea that artificial is bad, or that artificial sweeteners are bad, as previous attempts have all had a catch, and outsmarting nature is harder than it looks. 

Someone could also argue that just because it has been deemed safe does not mean that it's harmless, or that it's healthful, or that consuming it is a good idea.  Just look at all the other things we can eat that aren't exactly harmless, but are safe for us to eat.

Ultimately, I can't stand the stuff, so I don't know much about it.  This may be a case of arguing safe vs. harmful or research vs. intuition.

[ctviggen]

If you're insulin resistant, eating sweetened food (even if artificially sweetened) raises your insulin level, which is bad.  I avoid all artificially sweetened (or sweetened at all) foods for that reason. 

The evidence against nitrates/nitrites is pretty poor, and mostly epidemiological, which proves correlation not causation.  Also, if you see a study linking one item with another, you have really read the study itself to find out whether it's pure crap or not. 

[srb]

   Somebody explain why I have to feel guilty when I eat the occasional hot dog?

Because they contain a healthy amount of meat scraps and byproducts, an allowable percentage of rat hair and if the meat is not ground fresh just before consumption (as in homemade), have a good amount of rancidity-causing oxidation?
 
Even when I was a meat eater, I avoided those nasty suckers containing ground up meat parts of questionable origin.
 
Steve

[ctviggen]

5º place: Bacon. [/b]
Consumption "increases the risk of heart disease by 42%, and diabetes in 19%." Columbia University study found further that can cause lung diseases.

This is the type of crap pseudo-science that is a waste of time and money. It's an epidemiological study and therefore useless.  Further, they blame nitrates in bacon for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. "The researchers also found individuals who consumed cured meats frequently were more likely to be male and of a lower socio-economic status, and to smoke, than those who never consumed cured meats."  So, nitrates in bacon cause COPD but smoking doesn't? 

What a useless study.

[macrojack]

I have ham, pepperoni and bacon in my refrigerator right now that are all nitrate free "except for those naturally occurring in sea salt and celery powder".  I don't know for a fact that nitrates are harmful but I can avoid them just in case, so I do. After all, worry is bad for your health.

As for feelings of guilt, that's your fault. If it feels wrong, just don't do it. That's the best way around guilt.

[tesseract]

Because they contain a healthy amount of meat scraps and byproducts, an allowable percentage of rat hair and if the meat is not ground fresh just before consumption (as in homemade), have a good amount of rancidity-causing oxidation?
 
Even when I was a meat eater, I avoided those nasty suckers containing ground up meat parts of questionable origin.
 
Steve

This is why I stick to 97% fat free Kosher 'dogs.   

[Larkston Zinaspic]

Mike Adams wrote an article this past summer describing the food industry's most 'evil' ingredients, which I guess would fall right in line with the subject of this thread, although some of these have met disagreement here already:

Acrylamides - Toxic, cancer-causing chemicals formed in foods when carbohydrates are exposed to high heat (baking, frying, grilling). They're present in everything from bread crusts to snack chips, and because they aren't intentional ingredients, acrylamides do NOT have to be listed on labels.

Aspartame - Chemical sweetener that causes neurological disorders, seizures, blurred vision and migraine headaches.
http://www.naturalnews.com/030918_aspartame_GM_bacteria.html

Autolyzed Proteins - Highly processed form of protein containing free glutamate and used to mimic the taste-enhancer chemical MSG.

BPA (Bisphenol-A) - A hormone mimicking chemical found in nearly all food packaging plastics. Active in just parts per billion, BPA promotes cancer, infertility and hormone disorders. It also "feminizes" males, promoting male breast growth and hormone disruption
http://www.naturalnews.com/032860_BPA_feminization.html

Casein - Milk proteins. Hilariously, this is widely used in "soy cheese" products that claim to be alternatives to cow's milk. Nearly all of them are made with cow's milk proteins.

Corn Syrup - Just another name for High Fructose Corn Syrup (see below). Frequently used in infant formula products.
http://www.naturalnews.com/029863_Similac_infant_formula.html

Food Colors - FD&C Red #40, for example, is linked to behavioral disorders in children. Nearly all artificial food colors are derived from petroleum, and many are contaminated with aluminum.

Genetically Modified Ingredients - Not currently listed on the label because the GMO industry (Monsanto and DuPont) absolutely does not want people to know which foods contain GMOs. Nearly all conventionally grown corn, soy and cotton are GMOs. They're linked to severe infertility problems and may even cause the bacteria in your body to produce and release a pesticide in your own gut. If you're not eating organic corn, you're definitely eating GMO corn. http://www.naturalnews.com/026426_GMO_food_GMOs.html

High Fructose Corn Syrup - A highly processed liquid sugar extracted with the chemical solvent glutaraldehyde and frequently contaminated with mercury. http://www.naturalnews.com/032948_high_fructose_corn_syrup_glutaraldehyde.html It's also linked to diabetes, obesity and mood disorders. Used in thousands of grocery items, including things you wouldn't suspect like pizza sauce and salad dressings.

Homogenized Milk - The fats in the milk are artificially modified to change them into smaller molecules that stay in suspension in the milk liquid (so the milk fat doesn't separate). http://www.naturalnews.com/022967_milk_pasteurization_dairy.html While it makes milk look better on the shelf, it's also blamed for promoting heart disease and may contribute to milk allergies. Raw milk is healthier, which is why the government had outlawed it. http://www.naturalnews.com/029322_raw_milk_Amish.html

Hydrochloride - When you see anything hydrochloride, such as Pyridoxine Hydrochloride or Thiamin Hydrochloride, those are chemical forms of B vitamins that companies add to their products to be able to claim higher RDA values of vitamins. But these are synthetic, chemical forms of vitamins, not real vitamins from foods or plants. Nutritionally, they are near-useless and may actually be bad for you. Also watch out for niacinamide and cyanocobalamin (synthetic vitamin B-12). http://www.naturalnews.com/032766_cyanocobalamin_vitamin_B-12.html

Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein - A highly processed form of (usually) soy protein that's processed to bring out the free glutamate (MSG). Used as a taste enhancer.

Partially Hydrogenated Oils - Oils that are modified using a chemical catalyst to make them stable at room temperature. This creates trans fatty acids and greatly increases the risk of blocked arteries. http://www.naturalnews.com/027445_fat_fats_trans.html It also promotes what I call "sludge blood," which is thick, viscous blood that's hard to pump. This is usually diagnosed by doctors as "high blood pressure" and (stupidly) treated with blood-thinning medications that are technically the same chemicals as rat poison (warfarin). http://www.naturalnews.com/023149_drug_drugs_pharmas.html

Phosphoric Acid - The acid used in sodas to dissolve the carbon dioxide and add to the overall fizzy-ness of the soda. Phosphoric acid will eat steel nails. It's also used by stone masons to etch rocks. The military uses it to clean the rust off battleships. It absolutely destroys tooth enamel. http://www.naturalnews.com/021774.html

Propylene Glycol - A liquid used in the automotive industry to winterize RVs. It's also used to make the fake blueberries you see in blueberry muffins, bagels and breads. (Combined with artificial colors and corn syrup.)

Sodium (Salt) - The processed white salt lacking in trace minerals. In the holistic nutrition industry, we call it "death salt" because it promotes disease and death. Real salt, on the other hand, such as "dirty" sea salt or pink Himalayan salt, is loaded with the trace minerals that prevent disease, such as selenium (cancer), chromium (diabetes) and zinc (infectious disease). Much like with bread and sugar, white salt is terrible for your health. And don't be fooled by claims of "sea salt" in grocery stores. All salt came from the sea if you go far back enough in geologic time, so they can slap the "sea salt" claim on ANY salt!

Sodium Nitrite - A cancer-causing red coloring chemical added to bacon, hot dogs, sausage, beef jerky, ham, lunch meats, pepperoni and nearly all processed meats. Strongly linked to brain tumors, pancreatic cancers and colon cancers. http://www.naturalnews.com/007024.html The USDA once tried to ban it from the food supply but was out-maneuvered by the meat industry, which now dominates USDA regulations. Sodium nitrite is a complete poison used to make meats look fresh. Countless children die of cancer each year from sodium nitrite-induced cancers.

Soy Protein - The No. 1 protein source used in "protein bars," including many bars widely consumed by bodybuilders. Soy protein is the "junk protein" of the food industry. It's made from genetically modified soybeans (often grown in China) and then subjected to hexane, a chemical solvent http://www.naturalnews.com/026303_soy_protein_hexane.html that can literally explode.

Sucralose - An artificial chemical sweetener sold as Splenda. The sucralose molecule contains a chlorine atom http://www.naturalnews.com/027491_aspartame_sweeteners_health.html. Researchers have repeatedly found that artificial sweeteners make people fat by actually promoting weight gain. http://www.naturalnews.com/024543_health_Splenda_weight.html

Sugar - The bleached, nutritionally-deficient byproduct of cane processing. During sugar cane processing, nearly all the minerals and vitamins end up in the blackstrap molasses that's usually fed to farm animals. (Blackstrap molasses is actually the "good" part of sugar cane juice.) Molasses is often fed to farm animals because every rancher knows that farm animals need good nutrition to stay alive. Amazingly, conventional doctors don't yet realize this about humans, and they continue to claim that eating sugar is perfectly fine for you. Sugar promotes diabetes, obesity, mood disorders and nutritional deficiencies.

Textured Vegetable Protein - Usually made of soy protein which is extracted from genetically modified soybeans and then processed using hexane, an explosive chemical solvent (see Soy Protein, above). Widely used in vegetarian foods such as "veggie burgers" (most of which also contain MSG or Yeast Extract, by the way).

Yeast Extract - Hidden form of MSG that contains free glutamate and is used in many "natural" food products to claim "No MSG!" Yeast extract contains up to 14% free glutamate. You'll find it in thousands of grocery store products, from soups to snack chips. I even once spotted it used on fresh meat!

[tesseract]

Sounds like a recipe for meth.   

[dwk]

Nutrition certainly is a topic that gets the passions riled up - most people have an emotional relationship to food that dominates their perspective and is one of the elements that makes rational discussion difficult.

Another huge element though is that Nutrition as a 'science' is far less advanced that most people think.  Doing a true scientific study of nutritional factors is just an inherently intractable problem due to the extreme difficulty in isolating variables.  Even the best studies are greatly limited in their ability to draw conclusions, and the not-so-great ones can basically conclude anything they want with creative statistics.
 The body is a dizzyingly complicated biochemical system where very few if any interactions are true direct cause-effect. It's all 'tendencies' and 'influences', and when you consider that
a) nutritional effects aren't isolated from environmental effects
b) most interesting health questions develop over decades of time
c) food quality varies significantly, so 'meat' and 'vegetables' aren't necessarily even meaningful without further qualification
d) individuals vary greatly both due to genetics as well as personal history.

expecting auditable conclusions like "a causes b" is wildly optimistic.

IMHO it's pretty much a lost cause expecting to get "answers" that are trustworthy without a lot of skeptical evaluation of the 'literature'. Considering the degree to which Agribiz and Phara are responsible for funding 'nutritional' studies, my default position is to assume that any 'study' is total bunk until it's examined and shown to be reasonable.

My PERSONAL response to this is to have gravitated to an unprocessed diet that is basically primal/paleo/ancestral etc. The basic idea that the foods that were available during our million-plus year evolutionary development period are most likely to be compatible with our body is a pretty compelling one, even considering that the foods that we can actually get right now aren't necessarily all that close to what they were.

In practice, this means avoiding substances with a high probability of causing problems. The main ones:
- excess fructose
- gluten
- "vegetable" oils (i.e. industrial products like corn oil, soybean oil, safflower oil etc)
- soy

Macronutrient ratios (high-carb, low carb etc) are pretty fluid IMHO. Humans rose to be the dominant species in a huge variety of niches, consuming a wide variety of macronutrient ratios. This points to a high degree of metabolic flexibility, and the idea that a specific ratio is required doesn't seem to hold much weight. Specific individuals may have sensitivies that drive them to one approach vs another, but this isn't universal.

[geezer]

Ditto to DWK! About 20 years ago, when I found myself beginning to struggle with some health issues, thinking that diet might be a factor, I decided to experiment with vegetarianism. Over a period of 12 to 18 months I found a diet (vegetarian, but not all vegies,  plus fish) that parallels what you wrote. Since then my health has been amazingly good, to the point that now at age 80 my blood pressure, cholesterol, and all my other numbers are good, without the need of any drugs, except a puffer to control mild asthma. I am further blessed that I don't have any aches or pains, and have plenty of energy to take exercise, which certainly helps.

[Folsom]

Tyson: Grains are not bad for everyone. In fact many people would have heart troubles without them because of how their body would respond to eating so differently the damage would not be repairable without grains. Wheat however would not fit into a useful category on that. There are a few grains people are per-disposed to having issues with for various reasons. People extraordinarily over eat grains though, typically, and that being the people that need less than some to begin with. Studies with mice who are not as carnivorous as rats show cardiovascular failure (I think starting at liver) on protein only diets.

People that are non-secretors of the antigen in their blood show much higher rates of heart disease, diabetes, etc, especially at earlier ages. I would suspect you could be one. Google search it on pubmed, there are articles for days on it.

Pubmed non-secertor

Pork Study and simplified explanation.

Coffee: Powerful antioxidant. However for anyone with liver (and often consequently gallbladder) problems (stomach sticks out sometimes for no reason, yellow eyes) it is death medicine. It is actually too powerful of an anti-oxidant, just like soy, for slow acetylators. For fast acetylators coffee is usually good. On the flip side for fast acetylators they die of colon cancer all the time. One example of a fast acetylator study. The only truly fast acetylators seem to be in the blood group A or AB. Besides for others it just raises cortisol, a stress hormone.

People want to believe GMO stuff is the problem but studies indicate while it is not good, different people respond much more poorly to diets with say red meat for fast acetylators more than eating GMO tomatoes. GMO is not good, and they often transplant the proteins that could be the harmful ones in the donor plant for a lot of people (maybe like 60%) into something previously perfectly healthy for those people otherwise. They then proceed to spray around $1.9k of pesticides per acre, per yield, on some of those crops.