[SoundGame]

Interesting comments on sound. I have always felt so many speakers suffer from dynamic compression and you comments about the Bryston room sound re-enforce my thoughts on that

James


Hi James,
The show was great and hopefully it will turn into the better one in future.
After greeting with you in the morning which was my pleasure,I went in the heart of the show and please forgive me If I tell you that I was not impressed with any speaker at the show at all or maybe I am the wrong one to say this or I might be effected by active system for a long time and nothing is good to my ears any more.
This room so far would be my vote for speakers.

Hi Prelude - sorry we didn't meet at the show; however, I'd be interested in knowing which of the speakers in this Simplifi Audio room you liked the most.  He was debuting for the first time in North Amercia, both the Klangwerk and PSI Audio active (out of Switzerland) speaker systems.  How did you like the Gradient One Box?
 
Though I did like these products, there were many other speakers that I enjoyed.  The Zu Def's; Totem Elements driven by Bryston power, Vandersteen Quatro, Elac 249 / 247. 

[James Tanner]

I really like speakers that can sound realistic (live) with Stevie Ray Vaughan and Nils Lofgrin rather than Diana Krall  

james

[Sasha]

Interesting comments on sound. I have always felt so many speakers suffer from dynamic compression and you comments about the Bryston room sound re-enforce my thoughts on that

James


Hi James,
The show was great and hopefully it will turn into the better one in future.
After greeting with you in the morning which was my pleasure,I went in the heart of the show and please forgive me If I tell you that I was not impressed with any speaker at the show at all or maybe I am the wrong one to say this or I might be effected by active system for a long time and nothing is good to my ears any more.
This room so far would be my vote for speakers.

Hi Prelude,
It seems we share the sane inclination, what speakers do you own now, and what other active speakers have you heard, anywhere, that match or surpass this room at TAVES?

[BrysTony]

I really like speakers that can sound realistic (live) with Stevie Ray Vaughan and Nils Lofgrin rather than Diana Krall  

james

I agree; however, I believe that good speakers can cover the range from Stevie Ray Vaughan to Diana Krall.  Choosing that good speaker system that works best for an individual in his listening room; however, is a difficult proposition.  I do not understand how one can roam from room at a show such as TAVES and focus on speakers given that the room, music, source, preamp, amp, wires etc. are all different.  I can see how one can conclude that the system in a particular room sounded better than the others, but how could you know that it was the speakers?

Tony

[markie]

Hi Prelude - sorry we didn't meet at the show; however, I'd be interested in knowing which of the speakers in this Simplifi Audio room you liked the most.  He was debuting for the first time in North Amercia, both the Klangwerk and PSI Audio active (out of Switzerland) speaker systems.  How did you like the Gradient One Box?
 
Though I did like these products, there were many other speakers that I enjoyed.  The Zu Def's; Totem Elements driven by Bryston power, Vandersteen Quatro, Elac 249 / 247.

I thought this room was OK, but then my timing was off. When I was there little music was actually played;  the sales guy was talking to people. When he put the music on, he was switching so fast between speakers - none of which happened to be the Gradient - that it was hard to really get a handle on what was playing, let alone get a grip on how each really sounded. I thought the wall mounted ones sounded surprisingly good, but certainly not up to other rooms I had heard.  I wish I could have heard the Gradients.  Another wish:  Rooms should have a display which updates automatically with the music.  This display would include the name of the recording  and all the hardware used in the chain.   This way there would be fewer people asking the same questions over and over.   So many rooms were mysteries to me. They may have sounded great,  but why they sounded great was the question -  was it the recording, the speakers, the room, room treatments, the amplification, the preamp, the dac,  all of the above?  For instance, I want to know why the music in the room with the Focus speakers had such clarity and ... focus.   What made it different? It will be fun finding out in time. 


There were at least ten rooms I had a hard time pulling away from, including the main Bryston room. Each of these had their unique drawing qualities.  Man I love this stuff!

Mark

   

[James Tanner]

I agree; however, I believe that good speakers can cover the range from Stevie Ray Vaughan to Diana Krall.  Choosing that good speaker system that works best for an individual in his listening room; however, is a difficult proposition.  I do not understand how one can roam from room at a show such as TAVES and focus on speakers given that the room, music, source, preamp, amp, wires etc. are all different.  I can see how one can conclude that the system in a particular room sounded better than the others, but how could you know that it was the speakers?

Tony

Hi Tony,

I just find that a lot of speakers can sound good with simple material and most demonstrate what sounds good on their particular speaker and setup of course.

I think transient response and lack of dynamic compression really set apart the 'OK' from the 'Great'

james

[Sasha]

I agree; however, I believe that good speakers can cover the range from Stevie Ray Vaughan to Diana Krall.  Choosing that good speaker system that works best for an individual in his listening room; however, is a difficult proposition.  I do not understand how one can roam from room at a show such as TAVES and focus on speakers given that the room, music, source, preamp, amp, wires etc. are all different.  I can see how one can conclude that the system in a particular room sounded better than the others, but how could you know that it was the speakers?

Tony

Very good question, and you are right that it is hard to draw such conclusions with so many variables, however when you spend decades in this hobby, realize that nearly nothing can match the performance of well designed active speakers, and that such actively driven speakers will all converge in their presentation and sound more or less the same (being correct in all or majority of aspects of sound reproduction) with variety of well designed sources, you can comfortably draw such conclusions.

[Diamond Dog]

Very good question, and you are right that it is hard to draw such conclusions with so many variables, however when you spend decades in this hobby, realize that nearly nothing can match the performance of well designed active speakers, and that such actively driven speakers will all converge in their presentation and sound more or less the same (being correct in all or majority of aspects of sound reproduction) with variety of well designed sources, you can comfortably draw such conclusions.

All active speakers sound the same?

D.D.

[Sasha]

All active speakers sound the same?

D.D.

Once again, well designed active speakers will converge in their presentation, and speakers that exhibit good power response, transient response, low distortion, no compression, will sound more or less the same.

[PRELUDE]

Hi Prelude - sorry we didn't meet at the show; however, I'd be interested in knowing which of the speakers in this Simplifi Audio room you liked the most.  He was debuting for the first time in North Amercia, both the Klangwerk and PSI Audio active (out of Switzerland) speaker systems.  How did you like the Gradient One Box?
 
Though I did like these products, there were many other speakers that I enjoyed.  The Zu Def's; Totem Elements driven by Bryston power, Vandersteen Quatro, Elac 249 / 247.

Hi SoundGame and yes it would be nice to meet few people but looks like it did not happen.Well maybe next year.I do not care about the ones on the wall.The fully active ELLA from KLANGWERK wich is the third one from wall could be a nice choice for who does not have a big room and the GRADIENT revolution active system which is the second one from wall was my best at the show.The black box beside it is the extra bass section wich has 2 12" woofers or you can get that at double stacked wich would be my best of all.Now remember that this bass is dipole and having total of 6 12" drivers at each side will not add too much to the bass that most of the people think but will reduce the distortion

[PRELUDE]

Hi Prelude,
It seems we share the sane inclination, what speakers do you own now, and what other active speakers have you heard, anywhere, that match or surpass this room at TAVES?

Hi Sasha,
You can see my set up here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=94674.20

[Sasha]

Hi SoundGame and yes it would be nice to meet few people but looks like it did not happen.Well maybe next year.I do not care about the ones on the wall.The fully active ELLA from KLANGWERK wich is the third one from wall could be a nice choice for who does not have a big room and the GRADIENT revolution active system which is the second one from wall was my best at the show.The black box beside it is the extra bass section wich has 2 12" woofers or you can get that at double stacked wich would be my best of all.Now remember that this bass is dipole and having total of 6 12" drivers at each side will not add too much to the bass that most of the people think but will reduce the distortion

Keep in mind that Gradient is not fully active, there is still passive cross-over between MF and HF coaxially mounted drivers.
Only LF drivers are actively driven, and I believe it is the open baffle together with active drive that produced such detailed undistorted bass.
Ellas were better to my ears in mid and upper register, very clean and fast, wonderful transients, no phase issues at all.

[Sasha]

Hi Sasha,
You can see my set up here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=94674.20

Yes, I remember you now, and your setup with AT drivers and Pass crossovers. There was a heated discussion after I said that your system was probably the best sounding of all pictured in that post.
Have you heard some other exceptionally good active speakers that left memorable impressions?

[PRELUDE]

Keep in mind that Gradient is not fully active, there is still passive cross-over between MF and HF coaxially mounted drivers.
Only LF drivers are actively driven, and I believe it is the open baffle together with active drive that produced such detailed undistorted bass.
Ellas were better to my ears in mid and upper register, very clean and fast, wonderful transients, no phase issues at all.

Yes,they are not fully active just the base section cross-over at 200Hz and I wish it was fully active.

[PRELUDE]

Yes, I remember you now, and your setup with AT drivers and Pass crossovers. There was a heated discussion after I said that your system was probably the best sounding of all pictured in that post.
Have you heard some other exceptionally good active speakers that left memorable impressions?

You got it :One word,NO
I think lack of consumer interest is driving the manufactures into the wrong direction.

[markie]

Prelude, how did the Gradients compare with your own (serious, full active!) setup?  Also, how would you compare the characteristics of active analogue crossovers (which you have) to active crossovers in the digital domain, if you have heard such?

Mark

[PRELUDE]

Prelude, how did the Gradients compare with your own (serious, full active!) setup?  Also, how would you compare the characteristics of active analogue crossovers (which you have) to active crossovers in the digital domain, if you have heard such?

Mark

I hate to say I like mine but there are some points that no box on bass make the bass more airy but not punchy and personal preference would be matter as well.My mid range driver is made by my order as well the woofers to do what they supposed to do.Even the material was changed and I have no experience on digital crossovers and would like to know if some one did a serious comparison.

[Sasha]

I hate to say I like mine but there are some points that no box on bass make the bass more airy but not punchy and personal preference would be matter as well.My mid range driver is made by my order as well the woofers to do what they supposed to do.Even the material was changed and I have no experience on digital crossovers and would like to know if some one did a serious comparison.

By material being changed on AT mid, do you mean you do not polypropylene cone but something else?

[PRELUDE]

By material being changed on AT mid, do you mean you do not polypropylene cone but something else?

No,it is still PP cone but the surround,magnet size and material on voice coil has been changed.{kapton voice coil former}

[JBLMVBC]

I checked Stereophile:
"The Rhapsody 3D has a bipolar arrangement of two 8" full-range Fostex drivers, supplemented by a Fostex supertweeter, and a servo-controlled powered subwoofer, with all the drivers in cylindrical cabinets.(...) Sold factory-direct at $15,000/pair, the Rhapsody 3D system provided for me one of the best sounds of the show."

When one realizes that cylindrical cabinets used in this setting are among the worst when it comes to create unwanted resonances (see amplitude/frequency curves -a point known since Olson-), it must be a testimony to the quality of Fostex drivers used in this design that these things can claim some awesome sound! Another example of unscientific design at $15k a pair, it's a little steep imo.

Thanks for the photographs PRELUDE 

Do you know what the speakers are on the outsides 

Be well...