[ckimmelshue]

I am new to this forum and relatively new to the hi-fi scene.  We recently moved into a new home and I now have a dedicated listening room.  The system is new as well.

My room measures 184 inches wide by 257 inches deep by 108 inches tall.  I have moved the speakers (Totem Acoustic Mani-2 Signatures) around more than I care to admit in pursuit of the prefect arrangement.  The issue I'm having is a lack of deep(ish) bass (I know these monitors will never move as much air as a good floorstander).  I heard the same speakers at the dealer where I purchased them and the room there is very similar.  I can hear and feel the bass against the rear boundary wall, but not in my listening position 8' back. 

In the position they are in (5' from the rear wall, 50" from the side walls putting them 7' apart), the soundstage and imaging are impressive.  I am enjoying the three dimensionality in this current arrangement, but the lack of deep bass or even palpable bass is disconcerting.  Using the same electronics and speaker positions my older Quad 11Ls (5" woofer, 1" fabric tweeter) produce very palpable bass. 

I figure I either have placement off or I need room treatments to bring out the best from these speakers.  In other rooms these speakers go low and are really impressive for monitors. 

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. 

[Rob Babcock]

Welcome to AC!  I'll check back in later with some suggestions, just headed out the door. 

[gooberdude]

As you walk around the room, does the bass energy change?  louder and or/softer?

sometimes adjusting your chair/listening position can fix the problem, but bass trapping is a good idea as well.

[ckimmelshue]

As you walk around the room, does the bass energy change?  louder and or/softer?

sometimes adjusting your chair/listening position can fix the problem, but bass trapping is a good idea as well.

Honestly, it doesn't change all that much.  The only area where it sounds "right" is against the back wall.  It is definitely not very accurate here, but its very energetic.

What perplexes me is that the smaller volume speakers were more palpable than these Totems which are known for providing relatively good bass extension. 

[ctviggen]

The walls should always have "better" bass,  since the room modes terminate there.  You can do the same thing with the speakers -- put them closer to the wall and the "boundary effect" should make the bass louder.  Imaging tends to suffer with this, though. 

[ckimmelshue]

The walls should always have "better" bass,  since the room modes terminate there.  You can do the same thing with the speakers -- put them closer to the wall and the "boundary effect" should make the bass louder.  Imaging tends to suffer with this, though.

I'm definitely aware of the boundary phenomenon.  I was simply stating where I can hear the bass.  I'd love to find a position that allows good bass and the remarkable imaging I have now. 

Moving these Totems nearer to the rear wall does not change what I hear.  It only slightly improves, but degrades the depth of the soundstage. 

[Rob Babcock]

If you have access to an SPL meter I'd suggest running a good test CD.  I've used the Rives disc for years.  Once you get a handle on just what the response curve looks like, try making small adjustments in placement.  Even if you don't have a lot of latitude it's worth trying.  Sometimes just moving the speaker a few inches can make a difference.  Bass traps might be in order but I'd try the free stuff (ie moving them around) first.

[Mitsuman]

I'm definitely aware of the boundary phenomenon.  I was simply stating where I can hear the bass.  I'd love to find a position that allows good bass and the remarkable imaging I have now. 

Moving these Totems nearer to the rear wall does not change what I hear.  It only slightly improves, but degrades the depth of the soundstage.

I recently suffered from the same problem in my Mancave. DIY round bass traps in the corners behind each speaker and an absorption panel on the middle of the wall behind the speakers improved the bass response significantly. So much so even my wife noticed the difference right away. 

[ckimmelshue]

Thank you all for the replies.  I'll switch the configuration around this weekend so that the speakers are on the long wall and see how that sounds, too. 

[mfsoa]

What amp do you have?
I think the Manis are notorious power-hounds, no?

[ckimmelshue]

What amp do you have?
I think the Manis are notorious power-hounds, no?

They are very demanding to drive, so I took my time and sought out an amp that could handle their impedance curve.  I am powering them with the new Audio Research DSi200.  I heard my same setup at the shop where I purchased the equipment. 

[bpape]

I would recommend starting by placing your seating somewhere between 7 and 8' from ears to the wall behind you.  That gets you out of serious peaks/nulls/buildup.  At the same 8' distance to the speakers, that also pushes them back slightly to give better reinforcement from the front boundary without sacrificing a ton of imaging qualities. 

I've always loved the Mani-II's.  Great little speaker though seriously power hungry.

So if the dealers room is very similar to yours, what is different?  Might be a good place to start the hunt...

Bryan

[ckimmelshue]

I would recommend starting by placing your seating somewhere between 7 and 8' from ears to the wall behind you.  That gets you out of serious peaks/nulls/buildup.  At the same 8' distance to the speakers, that also pushes them back slightly to give better reinforcement from the front boundary without sacrificing a ton of imaging qualities. 

I've always loved the Mani-II's.  Great little speaker though seriously power hungry.

So if the dealers room is very similar to yours, what is different?  Might be a good place to start the hunt...

Bryan

I will try this setup.  Thank you.

The dealer's room is a very similar size, but has brick and concrete based walls.  Size and setup, however, are the same.  I do have two "holes" in the room - one for the stairway and one for the hallway to the bedrooms. 

I'll try your setup, then moving the system and speakers over to the long wall too. 

[bpape]

The 'holes' in the room are not allowing the speakers to pressurize the room in the same way as his room (assuming it's closed via a door).  This is not to say you can't get good response.  It's just that they're trying to pressurize a much larger space - like the hall, any bedroom doors that are open and likely the other entire floor of the home.

Bryan

[Cheerwino]

So Bryan, is the only solution to install a door where there's an opening? I guess by "pressure" you mean it needs to mostly seal, not just be a barrier like a moveable partition or freestanding trap.

Would you expect heavy drapes, floor to ceiling, to help in any way?

[bpape]

I'm not saying you can't make improvements by possibly getting some more boundary reinforcement.  You're just not going to get the same type of room filling bass that he does since you're trying to fill a space 3x or more as large effectively.

Doors would certainly go a long way to help.

Curtains aren't going to impact bass response at all - only suck all of the high frequencies out of the room.

Bryan

[ckimmelshue]

I'm not saying you can't make improvements by possibly getting some more boundary reinforcement.  You're just not going to get the same type of room filling bass that he does since you're trying to fill a space 3x or more as large effectively.

Doors would certainly go a long way to help.

Curtains aren't going to impact bass response at all - only suck all of the high frequencies out of the room.

Bryan

This makes sense. 

What doesn't make sense, though, is that the much smaller speakers can give the sensation of more bass in the same exact space with the same equipment.

The dealer's room (posted below) also has a large "hole" in it:



This issue is perplexing, but hopefully solvable.  I have Totem's ear now, too. 

[bpape]

Concrete and brick walls don't flex and give like drywall and glass so they tend to perpetuate bass waves more strongly.  You have a large amount of glass which does tend to pass bass out of a space much more than other materials do.

Bryan

[ssglx]

Pull them further into the room, in steps. All the way onto the rug. I think you'll be surprised that the bass changes character with each step. I get the best balance of bass definition, heft, and quickness with my monitors about 5' from the wall. Image like mad too.

I have large openings in my 12'x14' room; a 6' opening to the side and a 3' opening next to the listener. The 5 1/4" woofers pressurize the room quite nicely with my solid state amp.

Also, how are your speakers attached to the stands?
Chris

[*Scotty*]

ckimmelshue, looking at the picture of your listening space the obvious thing to try that struck me was move your speakers away from those windows and put them on the same wall as your equipment. You will have a lot more boundary reinforcement that way.
 It appears as though you have a poured concrete wall behind your equipment and possibly a concrete ceiling and floor as well. If this is the case your major problem becomes how transparent the windows are to bass frequencies. If you have the same equipment as the dealer's right down to the cabling you should be able to get close to the same results.
Scotty