[JoshK]

In all fairness, George, I think the failure of the caps was the fault of your amp not the caps in the speaker.

[zybar]

Josh,

Sorry, you are wrong.

The amps were fully checked out and given a clean bill of health (at a very hefty price) by Blackie Pagano.  

Besides, that isn't the only hardware failure I have had...

George

[JoshK]

Ok, I didn't know.  I thought that the amp was the cause of the failure.  I have never heard of caps failing like that without the amp cause the problem.  I have heard of the amp causing said troubles.   What other failures have you had?

[zybar]

Had a woofer DOA on one of my two Larger subs...

Had extensive talks with Peter Moncrief on cap issues and we never could figure it out.  Peter did have a bad batch of a dozen or so TRT caps, but B says mine weren't part of that.  

Again, I think Brian makes a great product and when the failures happen he ships out parts immediately.

I just think there are a far too many failures from my own experience and talking to other VMPS owners.  

On the other hand, I am way over my fear of opening up and working on my speakers!  

George

[JoshK]

Yeah I have never heard of Brian not going the distance for customer support.  I am sorry to hear about your larger and the caps.  The caps are an odd one from my non-pro perspective.  Weird, weird.  

I am not trying to cover for Brian, just thought your cap failure was something other related.  In retrospect, I should have made that a question, not a statement, as that is what I really meant.

[ctviggen]

One would think that there would be zero dead speakers on arrival, since all the speakers are burnt in at the factory.  Afterwards, I don't know what the failure rate should be, but I would suspect that if the speaker survives burn in, it shouldn't fail for quite a while (the infamous "bath tub" curve for electronics comes to mind -- most failures occur in the beginning or at the end of life).  Of course, this assumes that there's someone who actually listens/tests every speaker during burn in, and that might be hard to do.

[pjchappy]

Although they are packed VERY well, DOA could be a result of shipping. . .

p

[rosconey]

i am ho hum on vmps sevice-
my large sub cabinet is far from nice, when i contacted b he wasnt going to hear it because he said he looked at it-well the seams were filled with cracked putty(seams are over 1/8 inch/not good)  -not nice looking, but it sounds fantastic so i didnt go thru the 3 month hassle doing a return.

i treid to buy some crossovers a few months ago, they shipped a week after i was told they did- and 1 inductor was wound like crap , when i called b was again not happy that i complained.well no way in hell i was putting it in it looked so crappy, so i got a refund(he was very promp at that)
would i buy again-doubtfull
would i recomend-only the sub because it is great, and its the only product from vmps i have heard.

[Horsehead]

As the former owner of two pairs of RM40s, the owner of a New Larger Sub, and being present when George had some of his problems, this has been my experience:

Sound quality- among the very best
Dealers- John Casler and Lucius Morris- among the very best

Build quality- terrible
Reliability- terrible
Customer Service- terrible

The last three are why I no longer own VMPS speakers.

[Marbles]

I sure would like to hear your story on the last 3 items....

[Horsehead]

Well, here's one thing that ticked me off.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=3170.msg26330#26330&highlight=#26330

Notice the date of the first and last post. I e-mailed Brian during that time and did not even get the courtesy of a response.  Finally I gave up and returned them for a refund.  He didn't seem to care much and gave a one sentence response- Send to Itone Audio......
I was also waiting over two months for a pair of bases. Gave up on those also and got a refund.

[Kishore]

I am very surprised. I think Brian is an honest stand-up guy who offers great customer service. Sorry to hear that you were on wrong end of this experience

Also, phone call is more powerful/always works for 1 man army companies .

Cheers,
Kishore

[Brian Cheney]

As I posted on another thread sometimes your best efforts aren't good enough.  

The cap failures are still a mystery to me.  I sent bad caps to Peter Moncireff many of which tested fine and others intermittent.  All survived burnin.

Sal never delivered the dressplates or wide bases and we refunded everyone.  I advanced Sal over $25,000 trying to get good quality and on time delivery.  He failed at both tasks and I haven't heard from him since January. We are using other suppliers including Bud Bailey, Mark Shifter and Dorne Dibble.

As for build quality, everything internal is hard wired with the best parts and wiring, no printed circuit boards.  This is way above industry standard.  Plus we trim all parts to exact value which nobody does (I have been the target of much ridicule from competitors deriding our "needless precision".)

We now have mls cabinetry for the RM 40 which is better than anyone's including those people charging $20k and up.  It took nearly seven months to get the samples and I expect long delivery times on production.

We charge no more than half what competitors do for equivalent hardware.  Usually they charge up to 10 times as much for lesser quality than we provide routinely.

I apologize to any customers who had problems or feel shortchanged.  As I have now said three times, one's best efforts are occasionally not enough.

[JoshK]

Sorry to hear that Frank!  

I intend to make my own dressplates as there are a few minor things I intend to do to my RM40's.  I don't know if anyone got the dressplates yet.  I think there were problems with Brian getting a new cabinet maker and maybe he got frustrated with giving people empty promises as he didn't have an answer yet.  I can understand that but I would have still liked to know what was going on if I were in your shoes.  I think many people can tolerate a wait if they have some idea of what they are waiting on and an ETA.  

What reliability problems have you had?  If you don't want to make that public you can PM me.   I'd be interested.

[zybar]

Brian,

I won't speak for anybody else, this is just my personal feelings...

Whenever I have reported an issue you have been quick to ship out a replacement part (whether small such as the TRT caps or large such as a 10" woofer).  In this area your support has been excellent.  I guess what sometimes has been a little frustrating is the delivery.  It is usually quite to the point and terse.  Although this is no crime, it is very different than my experience with almost ALL other smaller vendors I deal with.  These other vendors have a better "bedside manner" so to speak.  

As for the part failures...I have two issues with the cap failure.  First, it was Peter and not you who spent the time explaining the various possibilities for what happened.  Peter stayed on the phone and let me ask all the questions I had and expressed some empathy for my situation (havng just purchased a $7000 speaker that wasn't working properly within the first month of buying it).  Secondly, you were pretty quick to blame my amps for the failures.  After 6+ hours of driving and over $400 in fees, my amps were given a clean bill of health.  While I understand that troubleshooting via phone/e-mail is difficult (I run a Technical Support organization for a software company so I know from first hand experience), you were adament that it had ot be my amps.

As for the bad woofer on the Larger sub...not much to say on that.  It arrived, it didn't work.  Just so everybody is clear, this sub came from Jim (Ribbon Speakers) as a demo model.

Maybe be a little more responsive on items in which you say you will look into something and get back to a customer.  I am been asking for months about braces for my RM 40's.  Doesn't seem like it should take this long to get things figured out.  If you can do them, let's get it done.  If you don't want to do it - just say no.  As other vendors are hearing from the people here on AC, the worst thing you can do is be unresponsive to your customers.

Lastly, although the majority of this message focuses on some of the "bad" experiences, I do want to end on a positive note.  

The RM 40's have proven to be the best sounding speaker I have owned.  Having said that, I still feel that I haven't tapped the full potential of the speaker and that they will continue to get better (with more tweaking/tuning and better placement).  

I look forward to no more technical issues and just enjoying numerous listening sessions and movies.

George

[Brian Cheney]

Dorne promised to supply extra braces for the RM 40 when he ran them over two months ago.  He has not delivered any and I bug him about it weekly.

I answer 100 emails and 30 phone calls daily.  I like talking to customers but try to keep it brief.  That's me, I guess.

Try the "Elmer paintjob" and be astounded.  I was.

[John B]

My experience with Brian's customer service is excellent; one of my speakers had a weak mid-range panel.  I'd noticed it fairly soon after purchase, but chalked it up to room acoustics.   It got worse, to the point where I eventually couldn't doubt it was the panel, especially when I switched the weaker panel speaker over to the lesser acoustically strong side of the room.  Imaging died, and everything now came from the left speaker, which had the healthy mid panel.   Admittedly it helps to live within a 30 minute drive of Brian's factory    I was in and out with a replacement panel in half an hour.    

I think what people forget here is that Brian is a one man show, he builds his speakers with a small group of workers as his support.  Brian makes some of the best sounding speakers I've had the pleasure to listen to.  If there are some quality control issues now and again, well this ain't Dynaudio boys and girls, this is a guy who's trying to build the best at an affordable price, he's not a wealthy multi-national Corporation.  If you want that, and speakers that equal Brian's, you'll need major cash.   I don't have major cash so I'll take a few quality control glitches, especially when he resolves them quickly.  As for bedside manner, please....I don't need a mfg. to hold my hand, I'm a big boy, just give me the facts and leave the syrup out of it  

Thanks for the great speakers and service Brian.  You're doing a bang up job as far as I'm concerned.

[zybar]

I will try the Elmers tweak and report back.

Thanks for the update on the braces.  Hopefully Dorne will deliver soon.

John, I fully understand that Brian is a one man show and wasn't comparing VMPS to a large company.  I was comparing him to other one man show's that I have dealt with (I agree that you need to compare apples to apples).  

One other thing...although I agree that the VMPS products present a tremendous value in absolute terms, when I buy any product (especially a pair of speakers that retail for $7000), I expect it to work and not have problems.  I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation.

George

[John B]

when I buy any product (especially a pair of speakers that retail for $7000), I expect it to work and not have problems. I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation.

I bought a $30,000 automobile, it's had 3 recalls in the last 4 months.   Pain in the ass, but the job get's done and I'm on the road again, safer than I was before.

I've had $8000 Dynaudio speakers that had a woofer crap out on me, my fault their fault, who knows...they were a pain to get a replacment woofer for...I bought them out of state, and the local repair guy I used wasn't on the Dynaudio approved dealer/repair guy list.  They eventually relented and gave him the woofer, and I got back up an running, but it is not a pleasant memory.

Shit happens.  I've read over your list of concerns, some fair, some not so fair.  I feel it's better to work with the person you're doing business with, until it's a last resort to go on the complaint offensive.   In your case I don't think you had it so bad, but that's my opinion, your feelings on the matter are obviously justified enough for you.   And that's ok with me, I just wanted to put my 2 positive cents in  

[zybar]

John,

Like you said, we all have different tolerances and views.  I respect yours and I appreciate the fact that you respect mine even if we don't agree.  

Just curious what $30,000 car has had 3 recalls in the last 4 months?  I want to make sure to avoid it!  

George