Background noise worse after cleaning

joeling39 · « **on:** 14 Sep 2011, 04:11 am »

I am new to this. Just bought a VPI HW27. I am a little puzzled. Seems to me that after using the record cleaner, the background noise is worse. How can this be ? I used the solution that came with the machine. I followed VPI's instruction diligently.

1) First, place the record on the cork platter & fasten with the record clamp. Switch on the platter

2) Then swing the fluid dispenser cum brush into place & squirt some cleaning fluid onto the record

3) Let the record spin for a few revolutions (3). Then remove the dispenser/brush

4) The put the vacuum suction into place & suck up all the muck until dry.

5) Play record but background noise elevated.

???

Regards,
Joe Ling

PS :

Just acquired this a couple of days ago.

neobop · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 11:46 am »

Hi Joe,
Nice set-up!

I suspect that your arm has to come up in the back, just a smidge.

Are you cleaning the needle?

I'd recommend trying a different brand of fluid for the RCM. I like Pure 2. There are others. I don't think that's the primary problem though. I'm guessing that VTA/SRA - arm height, and/or a dirty needle is the problem. Also, when drying the record, don't let it go around more than one turn - just enough to suck up the fluid. If you can't solve the problem call Soundsmith.
neo

steveblezy · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 12:18 pm »

I would suggest a rinse and vacuum with dematerialized water as a final step.

Steve

twitch54 · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 01:19 pm »

what kind of water are you using.........do you give your LP's a dry static wipe (carbon fibre or like brush) on the TT before playing.....???

every thing else being equal it should'nt be noisier after a proper cleaning..........

rollo · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 01:35 pm »

Is it a new pressing or old pressing ? Could it be the recording itself ? If all else is proper, meaning a clean cart, tracking weight, VTA, etc there should be no logical reason I can think of. A clean record is a clean record.
I'm puzzled

charles
SMA

richidoo · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 03:03 pm »

Let it scrub longer than a few revolutions. I use a hand brush and scrub the living hell out of the records for at least a minute per side. Then I vacuum it off and scrub again with water rinse, vacuum that off, then rinse one more time without scrubbing. Without rinsing you are leaving stirred up crap on the record.

I like this homemade fluid: http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize041998.htm

Make sure the record stays wet during the entire cleaning process. The vacuum step is what removes the dirt, lengthening it with more rinsing helps. Be careful that your cleaning machine does not overheat, especially the platter motor. Like any new skill, practice makes it better.

jjc1 · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 03:48 pm »

Don't use the vacumn more than 2 to 3 revolutions. I do about 2 and a quarter revs. Vacumning longer will cause static build up. Maybe that's the problem.

woodsyi · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 04:32 pm »

I use a squirt bottle to dispense cleaner and use the dispenser wand for distilled water to rinse. I don't like the VPI fluid that comes with it. I use Disc Doctor miracle record cleaner as well as Nitty Gritty Pure 2. Both are better than VPI cleaning fluid IMHO.

DaveyW · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 04:51 pm »

I don't want to sound like a broken record

, but;

Moving to a Steam Based Approach really helped out on this front.

Using steam to not only clean but also deliver a final "rinse" dropped the noise floor noticably and took away any variability I previously witnessed. I'm guessing it just cleans away all potential cleaning agent residue.

Possibly something to consider Joe

Wayner · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 05:01 pm »

I don't think the problem has been identified yet. Unless you have a bunch of dried on residue on the record, that should not be the source of the noise.

So we need some more clarification. Does it sound like "popcorn" popping really fast, or medium fast or slow? Could it be (as suggested) static discharging? Or is the record damaged, like overcooked at pressing? Does it happen on all the records you clean or just one?

Wayner

Minn Mark · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 05:49 pm »

I might be really off base with this suggestion, but in my experience as a new owner of a VPI Classic I, the VPI TT is VERY susceptable to static. I use a Record Doctor with various solutions to clean records, then a carbon fiber brush immediately before playing. Sometimes the amount of residual static is amazing. Even using a ZeroStat does not immediately drain it all off, and my TT is well grounded. So...maybe consider if it is static.

Mark

PS-any advice on static cures is appreciated in the post.

rab1234 · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 06:42 pm »

Yes that zero stat will help, This has happened to me a long time ago, in my case I think some foreign material got on the record when i was cleaning it (VPI) and I never got it off, it was a good album too. My only suggestion is to clean the hell out of it. By the way that is one nice rig. On that zero stat gun for me its worked the best on the platter (not running) and getting the release pressure the same as going in if you know what I mean, and the more the better.

orthobiz · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 10:19 pm »

Man, that TT with the strain gauge cartridge with the lights all dressed up in black and silver looks like it's wearing a TUXEDO!

I am not jealous. I am not jealous. I am not jealous.

Paul

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 10:42 pm »

Let the record stand on its end, prop it up somehow, for several minutes after cleaning before playing. Then, gently sweep your stylus with a stylus brush. Now play.

Wayner · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 11:12 pm »

Quote from: jimdgoulding on 14 Sep 2011, 10:42 pm

Let the record stand on its end, prop it up somehow, for several minutes after cleaning before playing. Then, gently sweep your stylus with a stylus brush. Now play.

What in the hell would that accomplish?

Wayner

etcarroll · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Sep 2011, 11:36 pm »

I'm with;

1 - Wayner, we really don't know the problem. Since having more noise after cleaning is not logical, we are therefore missing a piece of the puzzle. There is something the OP is doing wrong or isn't doing that needs to be done. Maybe post a video of your process.

2 - Rich is right, you need to scrub these sumbitches. I have Woodsyi's old 16.5 and have developed a routine, (combined the parts of everything I liked I read here about cleaning), of applying 3 parts distilled water with 1 part 93% alcohol and a touch of Dawn to a side, 5 rotations with light brush pressure to apply the mix, then walk away and listen to 1 song. Return and make 5 rotations with 'cleaning' pressure on brush, then manually reverse for 5 rotations, then 10 normal rotations then vacumn just enough to pick up residue. No wiping with cloth or standing on end. Static brush for a rotation on the tt, then drop the needle.

3- Woodsyi is right about the VPI cleanser, or at least my experience has been the same.

I've bought some Gawdawfull vinyl, the above usually cleans it, for the worst offenders I break out the steam, but I doubt that's going to help you.

Again, as a software designer, I work through what's 'logical' when I triage problems, you need to keep the feelings out of it. Having records sound worse after cleaning isn't logical.

Something is missing in this scenario, make a video and post it.

twitch54 · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 Sep 2011, 12:36 am »

Quote from: etcarroll on 14 Sep 2011, 11:36 pm

Something is missing in this scenario, make a video and post it.

agreed, good idea....pic / video is worth a thousand words......

joeling39 · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Sep 2011, 03:49 am »

Wow, gone to bed & back online so many replies. Perhaps I need to elaborate further.

Everything is new. The record is new. Played it a couple of times on the table. Did not notice the background noise as much. Table & cart all new. RCM also new. Record is Shelby Lynne's A Little Lovin' special edition (clear vinyl).

So, after the ritual mentioned in my first post, the background noise (more evident in the beginning of the first track) was subjectively much worse than prior to cleaning. The noise manifests itself as like those sound effects from the movies emphasizing that a record is playing type of noise.

I also tried zero stat & carbon brush on the record last night with a little improvement.

A small confession. Last night, also changed the stylus weight on the record (what is the term used here ?) from 1.9g to 2.3g (as per specific instruction from sound smith). Will this have any profound effect ?

Also tried to fiddle a little with the VTA but not much effect.

I am using the original fluid that came with the RCM as I have no other at the moment. Also no distilled water at the moment. There should be one or two other RCM owners in my city. I will seek them out for further information.

Record listening is a much more involved process. So far the sound is kind of interesting & different to digital.

Here is the rest of the system :

Regards,
Joe Ling

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 Sep 2011, 04:05 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 14 Sep 2011, 11:12 pm

What in the hell would that accomplish?

Wayner

Did you, of all people, decide to sound like a dumb shit? Nothing that you would appreciate, apparently. KMA.

Minn Mark · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 Sep 2011, 03:58 pm »

Wow. Nice toys.
I appreciate the updates, and I think you have identified several possible issues. You are on task to sort this out, so please let us here at AC know what you ultimately find out. Great looking (and I bet sounding) system.

MinnMark