[sebrof]

I find it easier accept that sometimes strange things happen and move on with my life rather than spending my time grasping after explanations for what I have experienced.
Life is too short.
Scotty

I find it fun to find answers. A big part of this hobby for me is the gear; what makes a difference, what doesn't, how our brains work when we listen to music.
I swapped interconnects a while back and was positive that the new ones sounded better. I had my son swap without me seeing, and guess what - I couldn't tell the difference. This is fascinating to me. These were pretty low-price cables, so I wonder what better cables or these cables in a better system would do. It does take a lot of time and could get expensive which is why I haven't really done it a lot. I have better things to do as well. I've never heard a before/after with cables, but it doesn't mean to me that all cables sound the same. (Cables just an example of course)
Some people just set up their gear and enjoy the music - That's great.
Some people like to play around and experiment. Nothing wrong with that I don't think.
Some people say "There's no way that will make a difference in what you hear" or "I put in the new whatever and it sounded way better." For the most part I don't give a lot of weight to either.

[acresm22]

In my own case, I've come to a conclusion that has helped me get off the gear and upgrade bandwagon: I don't trust my ears.
I know that goes against the audiophile handbook, but I've been listening critically to music and a multitude of audio systems since the 1970s and I've come to accept that a) my main system, playing the same music, can sound completely entrancing one night and ragged and uninviting the next; and b)a piece of gear that may sound vastly superior to me on first listen may not hold the same charms over the long haul.
I could reason that, regarding the first point, I had good "clean" power one night and dirty power the next. But I don't buy it.
What is more likely is that I was ejoying a really good scotch the first night, but was obsessing about work (or my stupid audio system) the next.

[Rclark]

^

I've experienced that. However, I've come to wonder if it isn't about fluctuating quality of electricity.

[sebrof]

^

I've experienced that. However, I've come to wonder if it isn't about fluctuating quality of electricity.

I'm in the "It's all about my mood" camp, but I don't know for sure.
Interestingly I recently started to measure my AC with a DVM and no matter when I test it (early mornings, middle of the day, late at night, weekdays or weekends) my electricity is 122V +/- about 1 or 2 volts. Mostly +/- .5 volts. My buddies incoming electricity as measured by his hi-falutin' power regenerator thing fluctuates by a good 5 volts or more. Maybe that's why he has one and I don't.

[planet10]

But the science shows that if you believe a difference is likely - you will likely hear it.

The converse is also true. Althou, if you have had the nominal 10,000 hrs of listening training you may well not hear a difference that is there.

Re power cords: measurable differences have been shown.

dave

[Letitroll98]

These were pretty low-price cables, so I wonder what better cables or these cables in a better system would do. It does take a lot of time and could get expensive which is why I haven't really done it a lot.

This is the big audio myth regarding cables, better sounding cables have to be the more expensive ones.  Hogwash.  The most expensive $20k cables don't have a parts list that runs over $50.  Nobody manufactures their own wire, they all buy it from the same bulk suppliers.  Therefore anybody can build the same thing and sell it on the internet for a tiny fraction of the mysterious high dollar scammers.  And they do, by the hundreds.  We have a few of them here on AC.  Sonny will build you a $125 interconnect from magnet wire and $2.50 RCA plugs that that crushes $1,000 to $2,000 interconnects in sound quality.

The days of magical mystery wire are over, great products are everywhere for cheap.  Indulge, experiment, have fun, it's nearly free now.

[JerryM]

I love the myth theme. 

[*Scotty*]

 Letitroll98, While many companies do not manufacture the cable they use, many do have a cable built to their design specifications and it is unique to their company and not just wire "off the shelf".
To have a cable built to your specs usually involves a minimum run of 10,000 ft. which amounts to a large capitol outlay for a cable you hope someone will buy. When you figure in special manufacturing procedures involved in guarantying meeting an OFC spec and the addition of PTFE insulation the cost per foot goes up substantially.
 Granted all of this expense still does not insure a superior sounding cable is produced but it does partially explain the cost incurred by some manufacturers,which is of course passed on to their customers.
 I have been experimenting with cable designs since the early 1980s and it has always been very inexpensive to to roll your own cables even allowing for the use of "Audio Jewelry" connectors.
The only advice I have is to try to borrow some examples of the better regarded cables out there even if they are expensive.
 See for your self what people are talking about. Sometimes you can buy a better cable than you can build if you can get a good one on the used market. Frequently you can turn them over after trying them out and loose next to nothing.
 Just because it's cheap doesn't make it better. It just means you have a smaller hole in your wallet when it ends up sounding like crap.
Scotty

[sebrof]

This is the big audio myth regarding cables, better sounding cables have to be the more expensive ones.  Hogwash.  The most expensive $20k cables don't have a parts list that runs over $50.  Nobody manufactures their own wire, they all buy it from the same bulk suppliers.  Therefore anybody can build the same thing and sell it on the internet for a tiny fraction of the mysterious high dollar scammers.  And they do, by the hundreds.  We have a few of them here on AC.  Sonny will build you a $125 interconnect from magnet wire and $2.50 RCA plugs that that crushes $1,000 to $2,000 interconnects in sound quality.

This is pretty much what I referred to in my earlier posts - We make pronouncements without details.
What $20K cables did you listen to?
What $125 cable crushed what $1,000 to $2,000 cable, in what system? Who was there, what sounded better and what sounded worse? "Crushed" ain't gonna get it.
Again, going back the the psycological aspect of it all - If Sonny's buddies were there (or people who were rooting for the little guy, or people who you bought beer and snacks for, whatever) and you dropped Sonny's cables in and listened and liked them, to me that has about as much credence as me sitting here looking at a picture.

[JohnR]

Why do "myths" always come back to cables?

Food for thought eh.......

Anyway I feel the real benefit of the discussion has been eclipsed, that is the inherent nature of human perception.

[Ethan Winer]

That said, Mr. Winer, what is your full take on power cables, and cables in general? I only saw your small rant there in the vid.

My take is that a power cable can't possibly change the audio passing through the connected device, unless the original cable was defective or not up to the task. This could happen only with high power amplifiers, but what manufacturer would spec a 24 gauge power cable for their 1,000 watt amp?

Audio signal cables definitely do vary. What varies and matters is their capacitance which, if too large, can suppress the highest audio frequencies. But again, a cable would have to be defective or incompetent to have such high capacitance that it rolls off more than 0.1 dB at 20 KHz when connected to competent gear. The output impedance and current capability of most audio devices can drive typical lengths of signal wire without high frequency loss in the audible range. But there are some incompetent products out there. So it is possible for wires to sound different, though that shouldn't happen with competent gear and wires.

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

I swapped interconnects a while back and was positive that the new ones sounded better. I had my son swap without me seeing, and guess what - I couldn't tell the difference. This is fascinating to me.

Getting people to understand the short-term nature of hearing is the last frontier. As I said, once folks understand this, the rest is all downhill. You now realize that what you thought you heard was incorrect. So it has nothing to do with what might have happened had you tried "better" cables. Your test is sufficient as is - you thought you heard a difference, then realized later there was no difference.

--Ethan

[Devil Doc]

It's taken me a couple of days to figure out what's important here. I can't believe my ears, but I believe my eyes. Poppy Crumb is a babe.

Doc.

[saisunil]

For me it boils down to head vs. heart ... thinking vs. feeling ... hearing vs. listening ... evaluating vs. enjoying ... in other words it is in here ... gear is just an object ... just take a clue from Shawshank redemption ....

Cheers

[planet10]

My take is that a power cable can't possibly change the audio passing through the connected device

Ethan,

jneutron in this post illustrates why there certainly is a possibility of the audio changing, particularily with Class AB power amplifiers.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/194948-how-do-power-leads-make-difference-sound-9.html#post2703719

Once filtered of the "no way they could possibly make a difference" there is some interesting discussion in the thread. (i py attention whenever jneutron or Simom7000 post of these kinds of things)

dave

[JLM]

As an "old fart" I, unfortunately, can hear the difference in interconnects, speaker cables, and power cords.  I say "unfortunately" because it turns into a game that cost money, leads to a lot of fretting, and misdirects resources from more useful/productive pursuits. 

I'm a firm believer that when science becomes nothing more than forcing "truths" down someone's throat and/or blindly accepting long held opinions as fact, that science turns into religion.  Real science is a process of continual questioning, hypothesizing, and testing.

[sebrof]

Your test is sufficient as is - you thought you heard a difference, then realized later there was no difference.
--Ethan

Ethan, I think you may be showing your bias here a bit.
If I read you right, you're saying that since I swapped one low cost cable for another low cost cable, in my system with my ears, that all cables sound the same. No way, based on my experiment, that "better" cables could make a difference?
It takes a little more than my brief test to convince me.
I realize you've done a lot of work in this area, but mostly what I read (not only from you but many others) is electrical theory as to why "it" cannot make a difference in sound. This to me has little more weight than the guy who bought new cables and "my jaw hit the floor."
Like I said in a previous post - If you get busted at the airport it won't be from a guard with an electronic sniffing device. It will be by a dog.
IMO if you want to evaluate music the way to do it is not with electronic devices but with people. If only it weren't so darn hard to do it right.

[Zero]

*Ahem*  So, who here has changed their stance on a particular subject after reading this thread?

The only valuable input I have here to share is;  Mint Oreo ice-cream is an amazing creation.  Yep. That about covers it.

[rab1234]

I almost made it all the way thru this post but if I think I get the jest of it, I do believe there is plenty of snake oil out there, lately I have been trying to curb my obsession and enjoy it more, room accoustics to me is a big deal, nothing like a good pair of speakers in my opinion and you folks crack me up sometimes. 

[Danny Richie]

*Ahem*  So, who here has changed their stance on a particular subject after reading this thread?

The only valuable input I have here to share is;  Mint Oreo ice-cream is an amazing creation.  Yep. That about covers it.

Hey Zero,

Didn't you know that all ice cream taste the same? We have broken them down by chemical properties and our instruments show no difference, so they must taste the same. And those colors that they add are just fooling your brain into thinking that they taste difference. And you are just wasting your time on those high priced brands. Sure-Fine vanilla measured exactly the same as Blue Bell vanilla. And oh yeah, I am an ice cream expert now.