[neekomax]

Check parts express, audiogon or audio advisor.  You would be better suited saving your money for a better amp or front end. Five bills is too much for stands IMO.

I hear you on $500 being too expensive, and I agree. Unfortunately, nothing cheaper is either not much of an upgrade, or is ugly as sin. So it's DIY time.

But first I've got some music to listen to. 

[jackman]

http://home-audio.audioadvisor.com/search?p=Q&lbc=audioadvisor&uid=915349892&ts=custom&w=stands&af=cat1:speakerstands&isort=score&method=and&view=list

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accsrack&1319915436&/Osiris-Speaker-Stands-

Also, if you don't want to do DIY, look for some Orisis stands or  Sound Anchor stands used.  They are very solid and good looking.  I bet you can find a pair for around $250 that will suite your needs very well.  I had a pair of Orisis a  long time ago and they were very nice.   There are also some cool DIY stands using PVC that can be painted and filled with sand or  buckshot.  These are easy to make and once they are painted are pretty cool looking. 

You need a saw but these are as easy as it gets:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/stubby_e.html

http://www.instructables.com/id/PVC-and-Plywood-Speaker-Stands-for-Cheap/

http://onefallinghope.com/2009/02/03/diy-speaker-stands

[James Romeyn]

If you spend $500 on stands, I'm going to send you a bill for $300 for the non-introductory price.
You did your equipment stand, DIY 'em yourself for a fraction of that, or get a more sanely priced one from an AC vendor. Heck Audio Advisor/PE have nice stands that you could use, just add some matching maple slats yourself.

cheers,

AJ

+1        These monitors deserve state of the art stands: Just make hollow square vertical supports, plywood, whatever, on a large pedestal with spikes.  I'm thinking the vertical width/depth = SAM1 width/depth.  Height wise put the tweeter about ear height in your favorite chair....don't grow any more and keep that chair forever!  Slightly tilt the speaker back on its own spikes about 5-degrees (does it have spikes?) to get just a bit of tweeter reflection off the ceiling.  Fill that huge vertical support with dry sand (will be about 80+ lbs.)  Performance wise you'll have the equivalent of $1k+ stands.

Jackman, you're links are fantastic.  It's been years since I saw the TNT stand link, one of favorites.       

My speaker taste turned 180-degrees in the past five years.  Previously I viewed anything stand mounted as stupid.  The foot print is about the same as a floor stander and you get only less bass, higher bass cutoff, and soft dynamics.  Now I see the light.  Smaller boxes have smaller panels for less panel resonance and the standing waves are way above the woofer cutoff.  Better staging/imaging and away you go.  Besides, not to go OT, but full range speakers are inherently flawed vs. a distributed 4-piece sub array below 150 Hz.  Such an array is costly but it defines the state of the art in domestic bass reproduction.  So a floor stander brings nothing good to the table compared to alternatives.

AJ's philosophy has great promise: Better bass than any passive box anywhere near its size/cost.  Most may be perfectly happy with its bass forever.  For those that want even more/better bass, mode-flattening effects, HT fanatics, and/or dreaded upgrade syndrome: add a couple subs (invert polarity of one).  The primary difference between such a rig and a state of art distributed sub array is that two of the subs are attached to the main speakers, meaning less mode-flattening effect.  But it will approach some or much of the mode flattening effects of a state of the art sub array.  Killer idea. 

Plus the coincident driver means easy center speaker implementation. Contrary to any/everything every speaker marketer ever wrote: rotating a C speaker 90-degrees vs. the L/R is the worst possible "solution" in a L/C/R array.  If/when someone turns the SAM1 90-degrees the only driver "rotated" is the woofer crossed @ 200 Hz, likely impossible to detect. 

Maybe our lucky owner could rotate them 90 degrees and report the results to prove what a nit-wit dummy I am!

I suppose there might be less bass reinforcement....which reminds me: A 2pi panel or bass beard might be the cat's meow for the SAM1!  Cut a piece of cardboard same as baffle width (absolutely no less) and about 1" longer than the bottom of the enclosure to the floor.  Set this "beard" against the bottom front of the baffle to the floor.  The goal is to continue the baffle width to the floor to lower the frequency at which the bass changes from 2-pi to 4-pi space.  If it sounds good a nicely cut piece of plexiglass (or shinier cardboard!) can later replace the rough cardboard.  You might possibly get too much midbass, but certainly the cutoff should be lower.  Maybe lower the bass level a bit and alter toe-in to taste.  Try toe-in to cross fire 1-3 in front of centered listener.       

(Sorry for this OT: I maintain the following for HT: the least-compromised HT viewing surface is a perforated screen/front projector.  Only a perforated screen allows identical L/C/R speakers with identical vertical siting.  Every other viewing surface puts the viewing surface and/or the C speaker at the wrong vertical height and mandates a different array for the C speaker vs. L/R.  Plus a perforated screen best accommodates several feet of space between the front wall and front speakers-speakers and viewing surface share the same vertical plane. This maximizes image depth and spatial effects in front...which coincidentally provides no-compromises in a shared music/HT rig with a retractable screen...sorry for OT.)   
 

[neekomax]

Wow James, you just went deep right there, with bass beards and 90 degree rotations and whatnot. You need a pair of these so you can test your theories  ... I'm probably not the right guy to start a speaker lab in this room.

Right now I'm just getting acquainted with the sound of the SAM1s. I'm listening to James Blake at the moment, a lot of sub bass and precise electro sounds, and a very specific ambiance to this album. Even at moderate volume, the bass is great, very tight, and with the presence that this kind of music demands. Not overwhelming the rest of the mix, though, just right. And in terms of musicality: I can hear the melodies that are played on the very deep synth bass much better than with the other two systems I've heard this music on.

Next gonna though some nu-soul to hear how they do with that...

[neekomax]

Have the monitors farther apart now. LP is at the apex of an equilateral triangle, again, relatively nearfield.

[Rclark]

Aj, you say the enclosure is modified. Have you added any custom bracing or is it standard as per the PE enclosure?

 I like the idea, I bet it sounds incredible. Exactly what I would want in a monitor, actually.

[neekomax]

Warning: The next post is very long. It is a preliminary review, and written like one, to the best of my ability. Sorry if it's a bore  .... And now....

[neekomax]

Soundfield Audio Monitor 1

It was a leap of faith, as so many things  have been since I started caring – really caring – about the sound that my home stereo system was making. That began when a friend of mine who ran a thrift store casually gave me a pair of B&W DM602 series 2s that she had come into possession of. She already had speakers, and knowing that I’m a musician and music lover, she told me to take them home with me, and contented myself with some cool speakers. After a couple of years, finding the sound (especially the low end) lacking, and remembering various friends along the way who had good sounding stereos and what a pleasure it was to listen to them, I made the decision that we must have all, at one time, made: To get great sound.

The leaps of faith have included ordering a Polk sub, which I could never get to sound right in my place, buying a preamp (pretty good), an amp (very good), and a disc player (so-so), all sight unseen, from various sources; eBay, Echo Hi-Fi, Amazon, and the like. The leap that yielded the most disappointing results was buying a pair of Definitive Technology BP8020 floor standing ‘super towers’. I had heard their bigger brothers the BP8080s at Best Buy some months before that, and had been impressed with the dynamic range and fullness of the sound. The secret, the enthusiastic sales guy said, was the active bass – a powered subwoofer in each speaker. Cool, I thought. That’s what I need. One subwoofer in my room never sounded good, maybe a stereo pair, coupled with a quality mid/hi driver array would bring the warm, live, purty sound the I craved into my living room. Being on a budget, the 8080s, at $2,400 wasn’t an option, so when I saw an open box special on the smaller 8020s for only about $650, I jumped on it and thought, well, these will be just like the bigger ones, only I can afford these!

Long story short, I could never get these towers to sound good. They produced an incomplete frequency response, resulting in a ‘hole’ right around 125 Hz, so while the sub bass was pretty good, the higher bass frequencies were just AWOL. Ugh. $650 leap of faith, and I didn’t clear the chasm of calamity. 

So I was gun shy but determined when, after two months of sound I didn’t like, I started looking for a replacement set of speakers. I posted on AC about my quest, alluding to the fact that I thought the acoustics in my room were a problematic, and were there speakers that were more forgiving of room dynamics? Oh, and not much more than $1,200 please. The good people on AC were right there with myriad suggestions, tips on setting up my room better, and recommendations for speaker models that they thought might work.  It was a lot to process. However, one thing stood out; talk of a set of monitors that some ‘AJinFla’ had built that more than one commenter said I should consider. I read the thread where others had been asking about them, and in which those who had heard them were giving them high praise. People were saying that they couldn’t believe the sound they heard from them; so dynamic and full, and just from a set of medium sized monitors.

I started corresponding with AJ, asking questions and realizing that if these could deliver on the promise- stereo subs, pure mids and highs – that my current speakers had failed to, they would be worth the $1,000 that AJ was charging. So I took one more leap, and said build ‘em, white please, and send them my way. AJ did this with efficiency and a friendly, communicative disposition, patiently explaining aspects of the design and build as we went.

We shipped, perhaps foolishly, the speakers on the eve of Hurricane Irene, from Florida to Long Island. We were both a little unsure about how that would work out, but Fed Ex ground came through without even a day’s delay.

Excited, I carefully unboxed them and beheld AJ’s handiwork. What struck me first was the heft of them, the solidity, and the modern coolness of the maple cabinets with their white baffle, offsetting the black and gray drivers. After all, the color was my idea, so of course I think they’re cool looking. The weight is due mainly to the .75” MDF cabinet, but also the very substantial magnets in both the 8” Elemental Design long throw subwoofer driver – 10 lbs each! – as well as the magnets in the 5.25” KEF Uni-Q coaxial mids/tweeters mounted above each enclosed sub. All that comes to about 35 lbs per speaker, a heft that certainly tests my cheapie speaker stands’ capacities. The cabinets, with its perfectly veneered edges, look as though they were carved from a single piece of wood. I don’t know how this is achieved, but it gives them a real air of quality. The back of each speaker is dominated by its 300 watt BASH plate amp, with the crossover, various connections, power section, and gain control. Because of the design, none of these elements need to be futzed with except for the power/standby switches, input binding posts, and the gain.

I set them up, switched them on, and then called AJ for some setup tips. While on the phone with him, Diana Krall’s Live in Paris came on, the first music that I heard with the new monitors. As I finished the phone call, I knew that  it needed to be turned up to make sure I was hearing what I thought I was hearing.  Sure enough, the sound filling the room was so smooth, so musical, I immediately had a big grin and thought, this is it… they’re legit.

From the online commentary, I had been prepared for a big sound, and it is big. It’s a very ‘room filling’ experience, much more so than I had expected, but it doesn’t need to be at high volume to get there. I think this must be due to the wide dynamic range that the Soundfield Audio Monitor 1s possess.

Paired with my Acurus DIA100, a passive preamped 100 watt solid state amp, the SAM1s seem to really shine. The Acurus is a very neutral amp, and drive them with precision and clarity, allowing the speakers to do their thing. I say it must be a good pairing because the resulting sound is, among other things, very warm and inviting. This was the big surprise to me. I had no idea how round, how natural music could sound out of a pair of monitors. The tight, staccato bassline and purring low notes in Me’shell Ndegeocello’s “Dead Nigga Blvd (pt. 1)” are so accurate, it really sounds like an electric bass well played, not ‘the bass from a speaker’. The highs are very detailed, spread out across the soundstage, but never, ever harsh or shrill. Again, it doesn’t come across as the treble from a speaker, it sounds more like the treble in the music.

AJ refers to Dr. Floyd Toole’s work on speaker/room interaction and psycho-acoustics when explaining why he chose the coaxial driver. The idea is that a great deal of what we hear are actually off axis reflections, so that the off axis response of a driver design in a room is critical to a smooth, unsmeared, and dynamic listening experience. He says he found that the KEF Uni-Q to be the ideal product to achieve this balance between on axis and off axis sound. When I first heard the way well recorded acoustic guitars sound through the SAM1s, courtesy of Foo Fighters and Porcupine Tree, I immediately got what he was talking about. Shimmering, natural, and precise, again, never brash. This was the room working for me, not against me. Halelluyah!

One of the true tests in the rock genre is how cymbals sound when there’s a lot of other stuff going on. The Foo Fighters “Echoes, Silence, Patience, and Grace” was a good proving ground. While not perfect, the SAM1s did an admirable job detailing and reproducing cymbals in the middle of hard rock bedlam.

Even though I’m in a quasi nearfield setup (6.5 feet back from the speakers), my impression of the soundstage width and depth is favorable. The stage extends all the way to the rear wall, and wider than the speakers themselves. Instruments are distinct with good separation, and the monitors fairly recede as the focal points of the music.

In the end, though, it’s two words that most readily come to mind when I listen to the SAM1s: Smooth and coherent. The combination of these two assets really invites the listener into the music, rather than having the music be projected at one’s head like a weapon, as I’ve experienced with my last speakers. The smoothness gives music a contour that is very pleasing to the ear. But it’s the coherence that I think might be the best part of the Soundfield Audio monitors. Music sounds more put together, makes more sense, and communicates feeling easily. I experienced the drum solo in Dave Brubeck’s “Take Five” in a whole new way. The phrasing, the fun that the drummer is having with the groove was a revelation. Beyond the mechanics of stereo active bass and concentric mid/high drivers is the sense of wholeness to the presentation. But I know that these technical features make this quality possible, so props to them .

These speakers are thoroughly quiet. With my ear right up against them and the Acurus amp set to 1:00, total silence. And that’s with three amps in the equation.

They are also fairly revealing (also because of the very favorable aforementioned signal to noise ratio?). My 128 kbps AAC files that I purchased way back when from iTunes (doh!) sound, well, like 128 kbps files. Unfortunately, I have some of my favorite music in this format. CDs will be ordered directly (these speakers beg for redbook quality, but my 320 kbps files sound very good as well).

It’s only day two with these speakers. But, like falling in love, when you know, you know. The Soundfield Audio Monitor 1 is a special speaker in my opinion, in that it delivers a complete, coherent, and exciting sound for a reasonable amount of cheddar. These babies are recommended for anyone who has had trouble making their rooms sound good, anyone who wants powerful, musical bass without the uncertainty of placing subs, and anyone who likes their music served up with capable grace and panache. All it took was some research, luck, a little cash and…  one more leap of faith. 

[Letitroll98]

Excellent review, very well written.  Captures what I heard when listening to the speakers.  The one thing I didn't get a perfect handle on when I hear them was imaging and soundfield, hotel room and all.  This is a deal maker or breaker for me.  Sounds like you have good width, fair depth, but not spectacular rear wall melting depth, and the speakers almost disappear.  I think you might get some improvements in these areas with modified placement.  Try further out into the room, less toe (or more toe), and even a touch wider.  Move the listening seat back if possible (no pics of that).  Good luck with whatever you end up with in placement and happy listening.   

[neekomax]

Excellent review, very well written.  Captures what I heard when listening to the speakers.  The one thing I didn't get a perfect handle on when I hear them was imaging and soundfield, hotel room and all.  This is a deal maker or breaker for me.  Sounds like you have good width, fair depth, but not spectacular rear wall melting depth, and the speakers almost disappear.  I think you might get some improvements in these areas with modified placement.  Try further out into the room, less toe (or more toe), and even a touch wider.  Move the listening seat back if possible (no pics of that).  Good luck with whatever you end up with in placement and happy listening.

Thanks, mate.

You're right, I think that the imaging/ stage depth might benefit from a better setup in the room. I have to play with it a bit, so we'll see...

[jkelly]

Any thoughts on longer length powercords (10ft -15ft ) for the plate amps?

I see that there are extensions made with IEC connectors.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=110-180

And I see IEC adapters for extension cords like the Walmart White cord:
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-PWA421-Female-Prong-Adapter/dp/B000AJM27A

Any thoughts... the 6 ft will be too short for me.

Jeff

[AJinFLA]

James,
I understand where you're going with that, but do keep in mind that the baffle/driver response is an integral part of the (low) filter design. One would have to be careful doing what you suggested. WRT to a center for HT, the new KEF Q centers would work just fine too, though yes, one of these could be flipped on its side with a relatively benign effect due to the coincident driver being a point source.

RClark,
The "mod" to the cabinet is the subenclosure for the coax internally. It does further stiffen the cab, but that's not it's main purpose.

Neeko,
Do you ever work or sleep?
Couple things about soundstage:
1) It's an artificial construct of the stereo recording process.
2) It is highly dependent on speaker/room/listener position, though less so with a controlled directional characteristic loudspeaker.

I eschew artificial "audiophile" ultra-precision to the mm imaging...because it's fake. It simply does not exist in real life. Anyone who attends live music heavily will tell you that.
I even remarked to Gary Gill at Capfest, that it should have been mandatory for all exhibitors to attend the live jazz jam in the lobby to see exactly this effect, since it's quite apparent to me that many strive for this type of presentation.
To each his own of course. But I'm squarely in agreement with what Toole's "Small Room" paper found.

cheers,

AJ

[AJinFLA]

Any thoughts on longer length powercords (10ft -15ft ) for the plate amps?

I see that there are extensions made with IEC connectors.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=110-180

And I see IEC adapters for extension cords like the Walmart White cord:
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-PWA421-Female-Prong-Adapter/dp/B000AJM27A

Any thoughts... the 6 ft will be too short for me.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

The stock cord is 8', not 6. But if that's still too short, then yes, just about any IEC type cord will work. Like this nice 14ga one from Monoprice: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10228&cs_id=1022801&p_id=5293&seq=1&format=2
I'm a bit apprehensive about the Walmart adapter, because that extension might put more stress on the plate amp socket. I'm pretty sure they make white/grey IEC cords too.

cheers,

AJ

[jackman]

James,
I understand where you're going with that, but do keep in mind that the baffle/driver response is an integral part of the (low) filter design. One would have to be careful doing what you suggested. WRT to a center for HT, the new KEF Q centers would work just fine too, though yes, one of these could be flipped on its side with a relatively benign effect due to the coincident driver being a point source.

RClark,
The "mod" to the cabinet is the subenclosure for the coax internally. It does further stiffen the cab, but that's not it's main purpose.

Neeko,
Do you ever work or sleep?
Couple things about soundstage:
1) It's an artificial construct of the stereo recording process.
2) It is highly dependent on speaker/room/listener position, though less so with a controlled directional characteristic loudspeaker.

I eschew artificial "audiophile" ultra-precision to the mm imaging...because it's fake. It simply does not exist in real life. Anyone who attends live music heavily will tell you that.
I even remarked to Gary Gill at Capfest, that it should have been mandatory for all exhibitors to attend the live jazz jam in the lobby to see exactly this effect, since it's quite apparent to me that many strive for this type of presentation.
To each his own of course. But I'm squarely in agreement with what Toole's "Small Room" paper found.

cheers,

AJ

Excellent post, WRT soundstage and imaging.  Everyone should have to attend a live music event in a good room (jazz jam or orchestra, not stadium event) to get a feel for what real live music sounds like.  It's usually not the same as the ideal audiophile opinion of live music.

 

[neekomax]

Neeko,
Do you ever work or sleep?

Yes. I worked on that in my sleep.

[James Romeyn]

James,
I understand where you're going with that, but do keep in mind that the baffle/driver response is an integral part of the (low) filter design. One would have to be careful doing what you suggested.

Thanks for the clarification.  What is the potential risk of adding a "beard" (AKA 2pi panel) coupling/extending the full baffle width to the floor? 

...soundstage (is)...an artificial construct of the stereo recording process...I eschew artificial "audiophile" ultra-precision...imaging...because it's fake. It simply does not exist in real life.

James Bongiorno, inventor of the full dual-differential full-complementary amplifier topology, designer of the pure analog Trinaural Processor, and one of audio's most celebrated designers/thinkers, uses the exact same language: "stereo is an artificial man-made construct", followed quickly by, "all sound sources in nature are mono", and, "there is no such thing as stereo in nature".  Audiophiles take stereo for granted.  It's inherent flaws are well documented by no less than its inventor Alan Blumlein.  Since switching to Trinaural I've never taken stereo seriously as a listening format, so well established and audible are its flaws by comparison.     

Anyone who attends live music heavily will tell you that.
 
I even remarked to Gary Gill at Capfest, that it should have been  mandatory for all exhibitors to attend the live jazz jam in the lobby to  see exactly this effect, since it's quite apparent to me that many  strive for this type of presentation.

+1.  Debra and I support local professional musicians by regularly hiring them to play in our home.  There's an awesome Young Chang grand upstairs.  Austin Weyand played guitar here several times.  The future USU piano professor and award winner Brandon Lee played here while I sat just IFO and under the grand soundboard (that's the real thing).  Once the drummer, bass, and guitar players from a local band jammed in the soundroom downstairs; last time just the drummer and guitar player.  I was in the control room with Stephen "Doc" Kupka warming his baritone sax, and that experience rearranges the bowels of your innards, a physical shock to the body.     

IMO the biggest difference between live and recorded is power response and thermal compression.  Once you are thoroughly tuned in to this, it becomes apparent how severely compressed systems are, especially the leading edges of transients.  Spatial considerations are more of an after thought with live music because it's dynamic ebb and flow are such a major part of the experience.  It also makes obvious the electronic hash and electronic noise filling the silence between notes.  Yes, of course live music has ambient noise, people talking, etc.  But natural ambient noise is completely different from the noise of electronic circuits as is the case with recorded/reproduced music.     

To each his own of course.

+1, as always, everyone else's MMV. 

[neekomax]

Saw this on Warpdrv's thread about his new Salks, had to post it here, though. It's true of the SAM1s as well...

[JLM]

Too cute to ignore.   

[doug s.]

Have the monitors farther apart now. LP is at the apex of an equilateral triangle, again, relatively nearfield.

these look great, and i would love to hear them.  mebbe when the tour speakers are ready, the speakers will have the feature to connect passive subs to the built-in amps - that's something that would be a requirement for me.

meanwhile, move that table out of the way, and let me know how much better everything sounds.     and, while that diffuser looks great, completely covering the tv w/an absorbent blanket will also help...

doug s.

[jackman]

these look great, and i would love to hear them.  mebbe when the tour speakers are ready, the speakers will have the feature to connect passive subs to the built-in amps - that's something that would be a requirement for me.

If this is a requirement for you, which speakers do you currently have with this feature?  I know of no speakers that have this ability and don't know a lot of people using passive subs anyway (requiring amplification).  There are lots of active sub options that would go well with these speakers (or any speakers for that matter).