[bhobba]

Ok the Metrum has arrived. In one word WOW. I blows away any other DAC I have heard except the PDX and Killer and I have to tell you they are under threat - its that good. I have never heard anything quite like it. The PDX and Killer sound natural and real - this thing simply sounds accurate - as if there is nothing between it and the recording. Nothing touches this for $1k - nothing. I simply can not detect any type of character to it - none - zippo - none.

I have it connected via the Off-Ramp 4 with Turboclocks and the Truth Pre-amp and am sitting simply in amazement. Of course the cost with the Off-Ramp is $2.7k and you need a pre amp which you do not need with a DAC like the PDX that has its own volume control so it works out about the same price.

I have my third DAC for the new shootout I am looking to arrange - this is without a shadow of a doubt an up there DAC - and at the price - amazing.

I simply can't stop listening to it.

More to come as I keep listening.

Thanks
Bill

[eclein]

Do you have a link to a website where these can be purchased??

[bhobba]

Do you have a link to a website where these can be purchased??

Check out:
http://www.nosminidac.nl/Octave_English.html

Thanks
Bill

[highfilter]

I had a feeling you'd like it. 

When you have some time, can you post your thoughts with direct SPDIF versus with the Offramp? Just wondering what changes/improvements you can hear between using the Offramp and not. Might put it more into perspective how much above its price range it reaches.

Thanks Bill,
Clayton

[adhesiv]

yes this is high on my list of DAC interests...The other being a Yamamoto YDA01...really interested in your additional time with this piece and how it compares to the other boutique DAC's by PDX, TotalDAC, Killer, Lampizator etc.

[bhobba]

I had a feeling you'd like it. 

When you have some time, can you post your thoughts with direct SPDIF versus with the Offramp? Just wondering what changes/improvements you can hear between using the Offramp and not. Might put it more into perspective how much above its price range it reaches.

Thanks Bill,
Clayton

Hi Clayton.

A couple of people have asked me about its performance not using the Off-Ramp but using something like an Audiophello2 - trouble is I don't have them - but know some that do - so it could be possible down the line.  People that I know out my way only use computer sources these days so transports etc are out.  An acquaintance who has a Squeezebox may be borrowing a bit later so he could possibly give a report.

Thanks
Bill

[munosmario]

Hi Clayton.

A couple of people have asked me about its performance not using the Off-Ramp but using something like an Audiophello2 - trouble is I don't have them - but know some that do - so it could be possible down the line.  People that I know out my way only use computer sources these days so transports etc are out.  An acquaintance who has a Squeezebox may be borrowing a bit later so he could possibly give a report.

Thanks
Bill

Pitty, Bill, that you don't have access to non-computer transports with direct SPDIF sources [like a decent disc spinner]. In Stereomojo's recent review of the Lampizator Level 4, the second reviewer, if I understood him correctly, came to the "radical" conclusion that basically any CD [of virtually any issue date] played through the Lampizator L4 sounded significantly better than what he had been experiencing with computer audio--which he previously believed to be the best possible digital source...a "total realignment in values" he states...It would be very interesting if--in your rather trained ear & educated opinion and while you wait for the chance to get your hands on the Lampizator L4--you happened to experience with the Octave, if not quite in the same  magnitude, something in that direction.

munosmario

[bhobba]

HI Munosmario

The reason people out our way is switching to computer audio was a series of listening sessions that showed it blew away the best and most expensive transports we could get our hands on - Waidia, battery powered and heavily modified Marantz's, Stello I2S transport - all were tried and bit the dust.  Here is the thread:
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/33606-Audiophilleo-(2)-USB-to-SPDIF-converter

It is long so I will post probably the most relevant bit:

I have just finished over 9hours of comparitive listening using the standard Mac Mini with standard USB cable as source into the following Audiophilleo2 ! Audiophilleo2 battery powered by 4 of 1.2volt NiMH ! KennyHiFace direct to I2S. ! Wadia WT3200 CD Transport. We all conducted the initial comparative listen on Friday night using ML3Reference which were fitted with Mundorf Silver oil capacitors which were brand new ! (Silver oils don't sound good when their new they need to be hit pretty hard for about 3 to 400hours before that they produce a strange combination of sweetened presence range and lower treble coarseness ! some people love the sound and get hooked on it then when they run in and improve many audiophiles have changed their system sufficiently to not notice.) In any case I swapped to ML1Reference and Tunestands which were in a run in and more neutral state. I would liken the results ! and in this order to be just like walking up a flight of stairs . first step MarantzCD95 disc transport ! Wadia WT3200 disc transport ! Audiophilleo2 ! Audiophilleo2 Battery ! JKennyHiFace I2S.For SPIDF input comparisons we can only compare directly the disc spinning transports with the Audiophilleo2 which also ran on the same CS8416 reciever chip . (more on another higher performing reciever chip from Clay Geisler the PDX designer in the form of an attachment at the bottom of this post) The CD95 was just wonderfull untill I heard the AP2 (remember both on SPDIF) lay down mezzere I'm afraid ! the smoothness, resolution and bass articulation of the AP2 made me question why I loved the CD95. The Wadia WT3200 closed the gap about one third of the way toward the AP2 but still had saw tooth distortion on the leading edge of heavily struck middle C and above piano notes. Bass from the disc spinners is to my mind indistinct slow and just unable to keep up with the signal. Vocals also seem to have a mild ragged bloom to them (could we just use a larger countershaft sprocket and spin the disc at higher RPM ? silly Joke ) The AP2 on batteries sounds a tad faster and more tactile ! less bloomy if you like ( sometimes that bloom sounds goooooood though !! is this a touch of jitter being sent down the USB cable on the non battery powered AP2 doing this ? ) The JKenny Hiace on I2S rules ! I'm saying this not so much because of the comparo on Friday night where we were using the Mundorf Silver Oil equipped ML3Reference(the new Silver Oils were slightly skewing results) but because over the next two days with the Duelund equipped ML1's the I2S device showed it's true character !! in other words None !! No bloom no lean mids no slow bass just JUST music. This new technology is just what my ref system requires because it is neutral NEUTRAL with a capital N You will of course be required to set your system up so it has even less glitches than before ! less leeway for errors brothers ! With these new source devices the audio world is your oyster just dont cut yourself whilst shucking. This new experience may be like jumping out of a hot  I hope we don't start getting posts like ! I don't like accurate sound it's too clinical for me ! or I prefer a more tonally fleshed out mid or a bit more bass. I've always believed in making an audio system sound as much as possible like live unamplified acoustic instruments and vocals not the way I may have subjectively prefered the sound at any given time. Kdoot pointed out to me on friday night that I had said to him last year that I tune a system to sound like real live music and not nessessarily something that is true to the source ! I guess thats true ! but then last year the source was not up to it in many ways and perhaps ! just perhaps ! I saw no other options at that time. Well I'm here to tell you fellow OCD's that paradigms have changed.

I also know a thread where the Lampizator was compared to the PDX in the above test - and basically the PDX was preferred:
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/33419-GTG-at-KeithW-s

I indeed want to have a shootout with some up there DAC's and the Lampizator 4 has been suggested.  Trouble is is it very similar to the Killer DAC which I definitely want at the shootout - except the Killer may be even better because it is chock full of exotic stuff like Duelund VSF Copper Capacitors.  Like the Lampizator it is basically hand built by a fanatic - in this case Steve Garland.  These guys have their own site if you would like to know more:
http://killerdac.com/forum/

Sorry for how long the post is - but I did want to detail exactly why guys out our way have gone down this route.  Not all of course but most of the ones I interact with regularly have.

Thanks
Bill

[ted_b]

Pitty, Bill, that you don't have access to non-computer transports with direct SPDIF sources [like a decent disc spinner]. In Stereomojo's recent review of the Lampizator Level 4, the second reviewer, if I understood him correctly, came to the "radical" conclusion that basically any CD [of virtually any issue date] played through the Lampizator L4 sounded significantly better than what he had been experiencing with computer audio--which he previously believed to be the best possible digital source...a "total realignment in values" he states...It would be very interesting if--in your rather trained ear & educated opinion and while you wait for the chance to get your hands on the Lampizator L4--you happened to experience with the Octave, if not quite in the same  magnitude, something in that direction.

munosmario

That's not how I read it, but the review was poorly organized.  I read that the second reviewer (Michael Peshkin) was only using a Mapleshade USB/S-PDIF converter and did it to break in the DAC, but that most of his listening was via cd, cuz that's what he does.  Your interpretation could be right, too, though, cuz as I said, that portion of the review read almost as a set of notes scribbled down.

Bill,
Very interesting stuff.  I have a Stello U3 USB/S-PDFI converter on the way, as per Srajan, to see how it compares to my native Antelope Gold USB implementation.  As you know Srajan is gaga over the Octave, especially with the Stello U3.

I've emailed back and forth with Cees (Metrum) and he is saying its now a 10 week backlog. 

[munosmario]

Thanks, Bill. I really appreciate your reply...FYI I have been following your DAC labors step by step, eagerly waiting for the next episode...so, I am very familiar with  the contents of your reply....a judicious comparison and ranking of DACs used strictly for computer audio. The point of the Stereomojo reviewer, I gather, was or is that CD tracks played through the Lampizator L4 sounded much better than the digital files made from those very same CD tracks....which was not the case previously when he was using other DACs...in other words, prior to this Lampizator L4 experience, digital files created from CDs and played using his computer (as the transport) with a quality DAC, sounded always better than the source CD regardless of spinner used as transport, using same quality DAC (what you and friends have been experiencing)....but that is not the case with the Lampizator L4, or so it seems. According to the Stereomojo reviewer (he expands on this for several enthusiastic paragraphs ):  CD tracks played through a decent CD spinner (DVD drive, he says) and using the Lampizator L4 as DAC, appear to sound better than digital files made from those same CD tracks played using his computer as the transport  and the Lampizator L4 as the DAC--a paradigm shift, he states. Of course, he used a Mapleshade USB to SPDIF converter to link his computer's USB port to the Lampizator's SPDIF input and perhaps that accounts for what he observed (I am not familiar with that converter, so I am totally surmising here). Evidently the reviewed Lampizator L4 sample did not have the (I believe) $500 USB input option...makes you wonder how good that option is and if the results would had been the same if the reviewed sample had had that option.

Thanks again,

munosmario

[munosmario]

That's not how I read it, but the review was poorly organized.  I read that the second reviewer (Michael Peshkin) was only using a Mapleshade USB/S-PDIF converter and did it to break in the DAC, but that most of his listening was via cd, cuz that's what he does.  Your interpretation could be right, too, though, cuz as I said, that portion of the review read almost as a set of notes scribbled down.

Bill,
Very interesting stuff.  I have a Stello U3 USB/S-PDFI converter on the way, as per Srajan, to see how it compares to my native Antelope Gold USB implementation.  As you know Srajan is gaga over the Octave, especially with the Stello U3.

I've emailed back and forth with Cees (Metrum) and he is saying its now a 10 week backlog.

Your characterization of the review is right on...need several passes  before the CD point  starts to  emerge...last two paragraphs are the key.

In any event, there is another intriguing detail. When he makes reference to a DVD drive as what he used to play CDs, it occurs to me that he may be referring to his computer's DVD drive, not that of a DVD player used as a stand alone digital transport...so he may have been actually (all throughout  the review) streaming audio out of his computer into his sound system, out of both the hard disc drive and DVD drive (if the latter is at all possible, I am no streaming versed at all but I imagine that a music player program could do that).

So, in essence he may have been comparing two modalities of computer generated/streamed music, not comparing conventional CD playing (CD transport-->DAC) with play back of music files stored in computer hard drive (computer--> DAC).

munosmario

[Note: reformatted as per Rajacat's request  ]

[rajacat]

Is the paragraph dead? These reviews/posts are appreciated but most of them would be easier to read with the occasional use of the paragraph.

Thanks,

Roy

[munosmario]

Be happy.

It could be worst.

I could be texting them as a stream of conciousness out of mi iPhone

 

munosmario

PS: That's four paragraphs (plus signature) specially for you ...actually, please see reformatted last post above   M.

[rajacat]

Thanks munosmario


   Actually, it would be cool if AC could enable 

(I'm not sure what you call it)

a way to narrow the reading

column like on other forums.

-Roy

[bhobba]

Hi Guys

My Off-Ramp packed it in so its of to Steve Nugent to fix.  Because of that decided to check it using the optical SPDIF out of the Mac Mini but needed a mini jack converter.

I just got the gismo to connect the Metrum to my Mac Mini via optical.  I works fine but is not even in the same class as when used with the Off-Ramp or Wavelength.  Everything is noticeably not as good but especially the detail and dynamics.  As John Darko said in his review of the John Kenny Hiface:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/audio-reviews/digital-source-reviews/item/184-j-kenny-modded-m2tech-hiface-mk2
If you're a dedicated computer audiophile - with either a Windows PC or a Mac as transport - you NEED this device.  Live with it for only a few hours and it renders the standard USB output as dead from the neck down.  As evidenced by my own experimenting with a variety of DACs, your mileage will indeed vary, but I struggled to find a DAC that didn't justify the asking price.  I thought about tagging this battery-powered Hiface as "highly recommended" but it's better than that - instead, I have to go with "essential".  Got computer?  Get this.

Via the SPDIF it is very easy listening and polite - quite likely better than the Burson or WFS but once you hear it the other way you won't go back.  Still if you would like to set up your system in stages it is very listenable this way.

I want my Off-Ramp.  Hurry up and fix it Steve - please.  I just sent it off yesterday and he will not even have got it yet but I really am missing it.

Actually had to switch to another DAC - its too polite - too slow - sending me to sleep.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

A friend who posts under Kdoot came on over and we did some further checking out of the Metrum. First the specs for the DAC states '32 tot 96 kHz sampling 16 of 24 bits.' Because of that I initially thought it only did 16 bits and dropped the last 8. But on another forum Sarjan of 6 Moons posted he thought it actually did 24 bits so I decided to check with Cees. Cees got back to me and Sajan is correct - it will do 24 bits if fed with 24 bits.

He came over with an Audiphello2 to check out the Metrum. It easily bested the Stello - the Stello was darker and slightly blurry compared to the Audiophello. The Audiophello sounded more accurate and closer to what I heard with the Off-Ramp - but from memory the Off-Ramp let more detail through and was more dynamic. At least that is from memory - a direct comparison needs to be done to verify it. The Audiophellio is $579 compared to the Stello's $499.00. However you do not need a SPDIF cable with the Audiophello.

Anyway once it was determined the Audiophello was better all listening was done using it. We confirmed what I found previously - the Metrum is a very accurate DAC - it really is spectacular in a Hi Fi sense. When upsampled it shined even more - which was something I hadn't really noticed before. We played Sammy Davis Bye Bye Blackbird from the Wham Of Sam and the clicking of the fingers was very spectacular. We compared it to the PDX. It was not as spectacular - still pretty spectacular mind you - but it, to my ears, sounded more convincing and real.

Kdoot took it away to check out on his system and what follows is what he posted.

This is a really fascinating piece of kit. It shows up differences between transports (and presumably cables) with ease. It's "lightning fast" all right, capable of great dynamics, but it doesn't seem to be harsh.

What it is, though, is NOS. I am not a fan of traditional NOS DACs at all - NOS might as well be spelled MUSH as far as I'm concerned. However, bring in software oversampling in a computer-based music player combined with 176.4 or 192kHz output from a good USB-to-SPDIF interface and you open up a whole lotta new potential.

Despite some software glitches that prevent me from sending sample rates higher than 96kHz to this DAC...

And despite what appears to be a ground loop problem that forces me to include my pre-amp in the signal path where normally I'd go straight from DAC to power amp...

First impressions of the Metrum Octave in my system are that it's un-f***ing-believably good.

The Rega is pretty darn good. The Metrum - in combination with software upsampling and an Audiophilleo - is astonishingly so. I don't think I've ever heard digital like this: depth and purity, power and precision, truth and beauty.

Muse's "Time is Running Out" opens with viciously sharp edges while Eva Cassidy singing "Imagine" just flows like honey. Two of my long-used test tracks from Thom Rotella Band - solos by bass guitar and drums respectively - thunder out with slam, extension and articulation to match anything I can recall hearing. Tommy Emmanuel in a solo live-stereo-mike-direct-to-vinyl-cutter recording, transcribed to CD, has such presence, body and sweetness that you're looking around for the turntable. Or at least you would be, if you weren't so utterly engrossed in the music.

And then there's the "shimmer" factor discussed recently: this DAC has it too. There's no audible noise floor, no phase smearing, no roll-off, no noticeable noise or distortion other than any that software upsampling can't shift into ultrasonics.

This is the kind of sound I've been searching for over the past couple of years, and this time I can afford it! Pending approval from the finance committee, I'll be ordering one of these and putting the Rega up for sale.

Something to bear in mind: it is necessary to have a transport of the calibre of an Audiophilleo, as well as a computer with high quality upsampling playback software, to get the results I'm describing. Feed the Octave with jittery 44.1 and you'll get that horrible (IMO) NOS mush out of it, whereas a Rega or Audio-GD will do a bang-up job of de-jittering and digitally filtering whatever old toslink input you have to offer.

It won't be to everybody's liking I'm sure, but it sure hits my spot. This is a DAC to put on your audition list.

That's all from Kdoot.  He returned it to me and also let me borrow his Audiophello.  I have just returned from taking it down to Lehehan Audio where Mike Lenehan and one of his experienced staff Tony were there.  Both have heard all the DAC's I have gone down there with.  I will do another post about that but in the interim I will say it easily bested them all, both Bursons, WFS, both Tranquility's, the JK SABER, all fell - no contest.  It was only the PDX that could take it on but I will give that detail later.

Thanks
Bill

[jtwrace]

So is the PDX your reference?  Not the Lampizator L4?

BTW-have you ever tried the Metric Halo LIO-8?

[bhobba]

So is the PDX your reference?  Not the Lampizator L4? BTW-have you ever tried the Metric Halo LIO-8?

Yea that is my reference DAC - don't know where you got the idea it was a Lampizator L4.  I, unwisely in hindsight, participated in the thread reviewing the Lampizator L4 because IMHO it was wrongly saying the Tranquility was broke.  I have that DAC and didn't agree with it so tried to post why but on refection realized in a thread to review the Lampizator L4 it was not a good idea.  That may have given you the wrong idea.

Don't know the Metric Halo stuff.

Thanks
Bill

[ted_b]

Srajan tells me he loves the Octave via PM up sampling too (24/176).

[bhobba]

OK here is my write-up of what happened down at Lenehan Audio when comparing the Metrum with Audiophello2 and the PDX.

First so everyone understands the biases etc involved this listening session was done with Mike Lenehan and one of his staff Tony.  They make the PDX it will be compared against so may be biased.  However I had been telling them about this DAC for a while and they were interested in hearing it.  I must also give them my thanks for letting me take time from their busy schedule because they are really busy putting the finishing touches on a new speaker they are working on - I interrupted them while Mike was doing the final tweaks and measurements to the new crossover.

Anyway they set up a pair ML1 Reference speakers and connected them up to the Mac 501's they use.  The Metrum was direct connected to the amps and the volume control of Itunes with Bit-Perfect was used but only initially upsampled to 96K.  First thing that was noticed was how accurate and low distortion it was.  It was easily better than any of the other DAC's I had taken down so they could hear - in fact they said it was even better than they thought it would be from my enthusiastic build up.  However with Kdoot I had noticed the higher the upsampling the better this DAC sounded so we went to 176.  Very noticeably better - greater detail and bass.  The detail was very well defined but perhaps the top was slightly hard and maybe slightly etched.

Ok - we decided to pop in a level 2 PDX which is a PCM1704K DAC that uses the I2S of a modified M2Tech as input and has an SRPP valve output stage.  Immediately it sounded more real and palpable just as it did on my system.  The top end was less etched and the detail was perhaps less defined but there was no sense it was not there.  I thought this was just a characteristic of the valve output stage but Mike was not so sure - he thought something else was going on.  Anyway we popped the Metrum back on and Mike said - got it.  He detected a slight bloom in the lower vocals.  Now he identified it I listened then heard it.  That was it.  It was the bloom that was the cause - its absence made the sound more palpable and real sounding.  Well I will be fooked.

OK to test out the theory we decided to pop on the a base level PDX without exotic stuff like Duelund output capacitors.  The conjecture was it will introduce some of the bloom and guess what it did - maybe half to one third what the Metrum had.  It was sort of halfway between the Metrum and Level 2 PDX in sound.  Mike thought the cause may have been the capacitors in the Metrum.  But when I explained the Metrum had no output stage or capacitors we were scratching our heads. 

Anyway while driving home a thought occurred to me - perhaps it was an artifact of jitter.  Previous tests I had been privy to indicated via I2S the modified M2Tech was better than the Audiophello so maybe what we were hearing was added jitter in the Metrum.  The better output stage of the Level 2 PDX was able to show up this absence of jitter better than the base model.  Anyway before I left we all thought when more time was available it should be done again - but this time with the Off-Ramp

Thanks
Bill