[Devil Doc]

Well, that's a bit over the top. I have to agree with wayner, I have dedicated circuit; 6ft. from my panel. It didn't perform any miracles. I can still hear the fan, on a totally separate circuit, through my rig.

Doc

[audiogoober]

Well, that's a bit over the top. I have to agree with wayner, I have dedicated circuit; 6ft. from my panel. It didn't perform any miracles. I can still hear the fan, on a totally separate circuit, through my rig.

Doc

Do you have an isolated ground on the dedicated line?

[Wayner]

The isolated ground is still connected in the panel.

[rollo]

   My advice would be to put the money for the separate circuit into a conditioner instead. Wayner does make sense. We have experimented using both configurations. The biggest difference heard was with the conditioner in place over a separate circuit. Having both may be different however we could not hear a benifit. For digital an isolation transformer and line conditioner.


charles

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

Adding three dedicated lines made a huge improvement at my house with a flick of new breakers. Background noise went away immediately.

Yes, RFI should be reduced substantially due to much much shorter run of the powerlines+ground wires to the contactor panel, bypassing the miles-long looping of the existing powelines/ground wires behind the walls/underneath the floor.

Also make sure you also add inline RFI filter to each dedicated powerline to yr audio rig like what I have done many years back.

With dedicated powerlines, no need of spending big money on any costly power conditioners as short run of powerlines/ground wires reduce substantially RFI contamination in our audio system.

I only installed a simple linear inline RFI filter (insertion loss=52dB at 32MHz, made in England) at each of my 3 dedicated powerlines (2x125V & 1x250V) terminated at dedicated wall outlets. The crucial point is simple linear inline RFI filter do NOT screw up the music!!!!
 
So shortest run of powelines/ground wires + inline RFI filters will do an excellent job.

c-J

[audiogoober]

The isolated ground is still connected in the panel.

So you think isolated grounds don't improve anything either?

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

So you think isolated grounds don't improve anything either?

How you are going to install "isolated grounds" of yr rig?

For low power application, like home audio, NO need of any isolated grounding at all.

The ground wires of the audio dedicated powerlines should be hooked back up to the contactor panel.

Yet I short cut it. I instructed the licensed electrician who installed my new main contactor panel a few years back, to have the insulated ground wires for the 125V & 250V dedicated powerlines enchored direct to the incoming water mains pipe at my basement floor, sharing the same central grounding point of the contactor panel.

c-J 

[audiogoober]

What do you think a dedicated line(s) are going to accomplish for you? There are lots of noise makers in your home already, and they are connected to your panel. Adding one more branch circuit will solve nothing, except for ampacity. I personally think you are better off treating what ever symptoms you have at your local outlet, or do you not have any symptoms?

The dedicated line is way over the head hype in my opinion and generally does nothing to solve most home bound noise inducers, like furnaces, refrigerators, AC units, lighting dimers and stuff like that. It just isn't that magic pill to cure all that everyone suggests. Besides, there is plenty of noise coming in from the street. How are you going to take care of that? The dedicated line wont fix anything like that.

Wayner

Wayner: Note your response to a similar thread below. 

 Re: Recommended Power Conditioning for power amps ?
« Reply #3 on: 15 Mar 2008, 02:22 pm »

Quote:

"Most quality amps have very well designed power supplies that take out all of the AC hash. I do like the dedicated outlets (I have them) as in Minnesota, we have furnaces that like to send spikes down the line when they turn on. Having separate dedicated lines to avoid stuff like that is a great idea. Otherwise, I've had some conditioners that actually made more noise than they ever removed"

Wayner 

[Wayner]

When I built my house in 1993, it was easy to put in dedicated lines. If I build another house, I would probably put in dedicated lines. However, this was not the case with this thread. The homeowner will likely see a very huge bill, for something that may not have any return. Since my 2008 post (the old post you searched and searched for,(OCD?)), proves that advice changes with regards to the situation.

There have also been improvements in power conditioning products, such as Frank's Humdinger, and other lines conditioners that I have found since then, that kind of make having dedicated lines no big deal.

I find it interesting how some people are so bent on advising others how to spend money on projects such as these. Of course the adviser doesn't have to pay the bill or live with the fact that lots of money was spent and the results may not have changed anything other then a bank statement.

I offer my opinions to make the OP reconsider his project, and to entertain other directions as a solution to his problem. I know that some people like to prod a jumper into jumping.

Wayner

[tvyankee]

Hello,

I don't know but i put in the isolated lines and i did not connect the ground to the electrically panel but a separate grounding rod that was grounded into the earth. I believe that is within code and never had any ground loop problems at all unless you introduce something that was not on the same ground. Also in my experience doing this project was well worth it and any my system never sounded better.

So i think it goes to show that not every one has the same experience and you just have to make up your own mind based on the info that is out there.

Once again, Good Luck

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

(1) The dedicated line is way over the head hype in my opinion and generally does nothing to solve most home bound noise inducers, like furnaces, refrigerators, AC units, lighting dimers and stuff like that. It just isn't that magic pill to cure all that everyone suggests.

(2) Besides, there is plenty of noise coming in from the street. How are you going to take care of that? The dedicated line wont fix anything like that.

Wayner

Nothing under the sun can be a "cure all". But a combination of several cures will make things happen.

(1) Yes, all home appliances, e.g. fridge, range, washer, dryer, etc etc are digitally controlled &
      emit RFI to the powerlines via their power cords. To stop our household powerlines from such
      RFI contaminations, an effective yet cheapie way is to snap on RFI ferrous ring suppressors to
      the power cords of those appliances. I've installed one to EACH & every power cord of 
      ALL my household appliances since day one.

(2) Yes, RFI can be airborne from nearby RFI sources. Worst of all is the house located too close
      to cell relay towers & the like RF stations. The powerlines looping inside the walls &
      underneath the floor are excellent RFI receiving antennae & can get badly RF polluted.
      So short dedicated powerlines for our audio rig is a very effective way to bypass
      the miles-long loop of the polluted household powerlines.

      With the above RFI situation, I would never want to get any power from any household wall
      outlets for my audio rig. Just like drinking water from a sewer!

      Failure to install short dedicated powerlines, power conditioners are therefore a must
      to stop RFI from entering our audio rig from the polluted household powerlines.

      Then we start to worry such conditioners likely screwing up the music let alone the cost of
      acquiring one.

c-J

[Speedskater]

Hello,
I don't know but i put in the isolated lines and i did not connect the ground to the electrically panel but a separate grounding rod that was grounded into the earth. I believe that is within code and never had any ground loop problems at all unless you introduce something that was not on the same ground. .................
Once again, Good Luck

No it's not with-in code!  It's extremely DANGEROUS !!!!
The 'Safety Ground's' real purpose is to trip the circuit breaker (right now) if there is a short circuit! It needs to be connected to the ground point in the main circuit breaker box (panel board) where the Neutral is connected to the Ground (ECG & GEC).

Electrician's sometimes just for fun connect a 120V Hot wire to a separate grounding rod.  Guess what happens?  Often nothing happens! The circuit breaker never trips, in other cases it takes a long, long time to trip.

[Speedskater]

While I have written this many times before.

Everything you need to know about power lines, RFI and chokes:

A Ham's Guide to RFI, Ferrites, Baluns, and Audio Interfacing
Revision 5a 5 Jun 2010  © All Rights Reserved
by Jim Brown K9YC
Audio Systems Group, Inc.
http://audiosystemsgroup.com

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf

[tvyankee]

Hey,

You may be right about the code and sorry if i gave out miss information, but why would the breaker trip any sooner than later if the panel is tied to a cold water pipe or any other grounding device  that goes into the earth or a grounding rod that goes into the earth?

Thanks

[Speedskater]

Hey,

You may be right about the code and sorry if i gave out miss information, but why would the breaker trip any sooner than later if the panel is tied to a cold water pipe or any other grounding device  that goes into the earth or a grounding rod that goes into the earth?

Thanks

Because a  "separate grounding rod" may have some 50 to 200 Ohms resistance back to the Neutral/Ground point.

All 'ground rods', exterior cold water pipe, UFER and other exterior ground systems should be connected to the building's power system only at the service entrance.

[polyglot]

Second that audiogoober. 

Dedicated lines is one of the best value for money for anyone who is serious about their music/HT system. Clean power is crucial, just hear the difference.

[doctorcilantro]

EDITED, thanks for links Speedskater.

[jtwrace]

[size=78%](1) Yes, all home appliances, e.g. fridge, range, washer, dryer, etc etc are digitally controlled & [/size]
      emit RFI to the powerlines via their power cords. To stop our household powerlines from such
      RFI contaminations, an effective yet cheapie way is to snap on RFI ferrous ring suppressors to
      the power cords of those appliances. I've installed one to EACH & every power cord of 
      ALL my household appliances since day one.

Can you supply a link to what you used?

[doctorcilantro]

Yeah, are you talking about snap-on ferrites?

[Speedskater]

For such a simple device as a ferrite, using them is far from simple.
This paper started out as a audio system paper, then a lot of Ham info was added and the paper renamed.

A Ham's Guide to RFI, Ferrites, Baluns, and Audio Interfacing
Revision 5a 5 Jun 2010
by Jim Brown K9YC
Audio Systems Group, Inc.
http://audiosystemsgroup.com

The basis of this tutorial is a combination of my engineering education, 55 years in ham radio, my
work as vice-chair of the AES Standards Committee working group on EMC, and extensive research
on RFI in the pro audio world where I’ve made my living.

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf